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  1. #71
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Ok well this is getting us nowhere. I figured that our different views on this case would perhaps be enlightening to the @Op as ultimately, the only thing that matters is that she has the information she needs to have her question answered.

    I listened to you, however, without closer examination of the person in question, i cannot agree or disagree with you at this point. And what I tossed out are just the things that struck me. It is by no means a full assessment, nor should it be considered one.
    Since when does a Ni-aux live in the present alone, without future predictions, without symbolic synthesis, without conceptual understanding and without any big picture thinking? What you're suggesting is an ENTJ without Ni, regardless whether MBTI is meaningful. I came to MBTI with full knowledge that I could do those things but had no labels to pin on them.

  2. #72
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Since when does a Ni-aux live in the present alone, without future predictions, without symbolic synthesis, without conceptual understanding and without any big picture thinking? What you're suggesting is an ENTJ without Ni, regardless whether MBTI is meaningful. I came to MBTI with full knowledge that I could do those things but had no labels to pin on them.
    You are basing this on the Ops perception. And Ni is a very hard function to describe or to pinpoint, and an even harder function to give concrete examples of. Im not saying he isnt ESTJ. Im saying that my gut is leaning towards ENTJ, due to the reasons outlined in my original post. There is little to no Si described in the OP as well, which is what the problem is in the first place. There is a bunch of Te, a bunch of Fi and some hints of what could be Ne or Se depending on how its expressed, for which we need more detail.

    And I refuse to be pushed to make a definitive decision until I get more info, in true P fashion
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  3. #73
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    You are basing this on the Ops perception. And Ni is a very hard function to describe or to pinpoint, and an even harder function to give concrete examples of. Im not saying he isnt ESTJ. Im saying that my gut is leaning towards ENTJ, due to the reasons outlined in my original post. There is little to no Si described in the OP as well, which is what the problem is in the first place. There is a bunch of Te, a bunch of Fi and some hints of what could be Ne or Se depending on how its expressed, for which we need more detail.

    And I refuse to be pushed to make a definitive decision until I get more info, in true P fashion
    There's a bunch of T and S functions being expressed by a third party observer. There's no N. There's also extroversion. This would logically point to ESTJ or ESTP.

  4. #74
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    Another thing I'd like to point out is that he's very ADAPTABLE. He is never the type to get caught off-guard by new situations, even though he's not much of a future-predictor. He's extremely good at adapting to change, even if it's stressful. Is this an S-type thing, living in the moment and all?

  5. #75
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catzilla View Post
    Another thing I'd like to point out is that he's very ADAPTABLE. He is never the type to get caught off-guard by new situations, even though he's not much of a future-predictor. He's extremely good at adapting to change, even if it's stressful. Is this an S-type thing, living in the moment and all?
    That would indicate Se, yes. Could be tertiary Se as an ENTJ ( @andante), or Se-dom as in ESTP.
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  6. #76
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Hm. Interesting. So he reminds you of Halla74, displays no intuition, displays Se and T functions...hm. Wonder what type he is?

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Hm. Interesting. So he reminds you of Halla74, displays no intuition, displays Se and T functions...hm. Wonder what type he is?
    It seems ESTP is definitely a possibility, then. For now I'm going to throw the ENTJ candidate out the window, but I still have a few hangups.

    After doing a bit of research, it seems that a big difference between ESTPs and ESTJs is that the former is spontaneous and risk-taking, whereas the latter is more conservative and less flexible. From what I've read, it appears that ESTPs are less likely to follow a sense of personal responsibility; however, ESTJs seem to have a stricter set of morals/rules for themselves. One seems more focused on doing what's "fun" while the other is more concerned about what's "right."

    Now, as I've said, my boyfriend is not a stiffler like the typical ESTJ appears to be. He likes being spontaneous after he's completed all his responsibilities, and he's a natural jokester. But he's not the "live fast, die young" type of person either... He's VERY responsible and dependable, and lives by a strict array of moral values.

    I also heard that ESTPs are more social whereas ESTJs tend to be loners. And well...my boyfriend is NOT the type who feels the need to hang out with lots of people. He's extroverted, but he focuses more on work and close relationships (namely, me and family) than hanging out with multiple people. He's also very picky when choosing friends - if they do something to the point where he finds them incompatible, he WILL drop them. Really though, he doesn't feel the desire to have many friends at all. He's perfectly happy with solitude and a few close relationships, and generally puts his responsibilities first.

    He's relatively conservative with money too, if that matters in this analysis. It's true, he DOES NOT wallow in worries about the future - he acts in the here and now. But he DOES take steps to ensure security. He's focused on using his money responsibly so he can gain more stability for the future (we're in a serious relationship and he feels compelled to take care of the both of us financially).

    So basically, he likes being spontaneous IN HIS FREE TIME. He is not the type of person to ignore his responsibilities for the sake of risk or fun. And while he is spontaneous, he's still organized too, because organization/structure is practical and functional for him. He's not a stiffler about tiny details and is pretty laid-back, but he cares about WHAT WORKS in the most efficient way.

  8. #78
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catzilla View Post
    It seems ESTP is definitely a possibility, then. For now I'm going to throw the ENTJ candidate out the window, but I still have a few hangups.

    After doing a bit of research, it seems that a big difference between ESTPs and ESTJs is that the former is spontaneous and risk-taking, whereas the latter is more conservative and less flexible. From what I've read, it appears that ESTPs are less likely to follow a sense of personal responsibility; however, ESTJs seem to have a stricter set of morals/rules for themselves. One seems more focused on doing what's "fun" while the other is more concerned about what's "right."

    Now, as I've said, my boyfriend is not a stiffler like the typical ESTJ appears to be. He likes being spontaneous after he's completed all his responsibilities, and he's a natural jokester. But he's not the "live fast, die young" type of person either... He's VERY responsible and dependable, and lives by a strict array of moral values.

    I also heard that ESTPs are more social whereas ESTJs tend to be loners. And well...my boyfriend is NOT the type who feels the need to hang out with lots of people. He's extroverted, but he focuses more on work and close relationships (namely, me and family) than hanging out with multiple people. He's also very picky when choosing friends - if they do something to the point where he finds them incompatible, he WILL drop them. Really though, he doesn't feel the desire to have many friends at all. He's perfectly happy with solitude and a few close relationships, and generally puts his responsibilities first.

    He's relatively conservative with money too, if that matters in this analysis. It's true, he DOES NOT wallow in worries about the future - he acts in the here and now. But he DOES take steps to ensure security. He's focused on using his money responsibly so he can gain more stability for the future (we're in a serious relationship and he feels compelled to take care of the both of us financially).

    So basically, he likes being spontaneous IN HIS FREE TIME. He is not the type of person to ignore his responsibilities for the sake of risk or fun. And while he is spontaneous, he's still organized too, because organization/structure is practical and functional for him. He's not a stiffler about tiny details and is pretty laid-back, but he cares about WHAT WORKS in the most efficient way.
    Probably @Halla74 might be able to shed some light onto whether or not your b/f might be an ESTP.

  9. #79
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Had a convo with an ESTJ this morning so this thread popped into my mind. To explain ENTJs a bit more, we think from a top down approach that's structured as ever decreasing circles of information. The easiest way to explain something to us is to first provide us with a high level overview that includes outcome. Then progress further into categorical breakdown, then proceed to detail within the breakdowns if necessary. Most often, unless there's real need for detail, we tend to prefer not to bother.

    ESTJs will tend to go straight to detail since 'the devil's in the detail'.

    As far as ESTP thinking patterns, I don't have the expertise to comment.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Had a convo with an ESTJ this morning so this thread popped into my mind. To explain ENTJs a bit more, we think from a top down approach that's structured as ever decreasing circles of information. The easiest way to explain something to us is to first provide us with a high level overview that includes outcome. Then progress further into categorical breakdown, then proceed to detail within the breakdowns if necessary. Most often, unless there's real need for detail, we tend to prefer not to bother.

    ESTJs will tend to go straight to detail since 'the devil's in the detail'.

    As far as ESTP thinking patterns, I don't have the expertise to comment.
    Ah, I see. I'm DEFINITELY thinking my boyfriend is not an ENTJ now (even though he came out with ENTJ when he took the HumanMetrics test. Probably not the most reliable test, but oh well). I recently found out a friend of mine is an ENTJ, though. While he's just as honest and abrasive as my boyfriend, I can tell that he has a more intuitive pattern of thinking. Big picture thinker, future-oriented, etc. My boyfriend is less concerned with theory and moreso with practical things.

    Still unsure on whether he's ESTJ or ESTP, though (I've been talking to Halla a bit about this). My boyfriend is like a rock; he's decisive, loyal and committed, stable and responsible. Yet at the same time, he's spontaneous when he can afford it, adaptable, laid-back and humorous, and doesn't hold personal regard for rules.

    If you don't mind, could you tell me a bit more about Te? I don't actually know too much about it, besides the fact that Te users are outspoken about their thoughts and quick to point out logical flaws in others' thinking.

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