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  1. #41
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    First of all, you got the ESTP process incorrect before. If Se feeds Ti, then that puts Ti first, in that Se serves Ti evidence for a theory or hypothesis, let's say, why the car is putting out so much smoke.
    Why does this put Ti first? And in what way is this even relevant, from the perspective of your argument that Se/Ti are somehow predictive?

    Secondly, this analysis isn't capturing the essence of any personality under question here. Pod'Lair got it right by stating that their version of Se-dom focuses on the enjoyment of the senses, it is not merely engaged in the gathering of information like a computer.
    It quite clearly captures the first coping strategy of the ESTP. As far as Pol'Lair, don't give a flying fuck about it.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Why does this put Ti first? And in what way is this even relevant, from the perspective of your argument that Se/Ti are somehow predictive?

    It quite clearly captures the first coping strategy of the ESTP. As far as Pol'Lair, don't give a flying fuck about it.
    I already had that notion about the Se-dom before reading Pod'Lair. I don't care for it, on the other hand, they do give some colorful descriptions of types. I take what I want and leave the rest, even if the rest is 99% of the total.

    Ti comes first because Se in this case is reduced to an information-gathering function. If Se was first, Ti would be reduced to a logic-producing system. But in your analysis, they are both in the auxiliary position: information-gathering and logic-producing.

    It just goes back to what I said before, you're not capturing the essence of personality here. Just elements of cognition. That's all those are.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #43
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I already had that notion about the Se-dom before reading Pod'Lair. I don't care for it, on the other hand, they do give some colorful descriptions of types. I take what I want and leave the rest, even if the rest is 99% of the total.

    Ti comes first because Se in this case is reduced to an information-gathering function. If Se was first, Ti would be reduced to a logic-producing system. But in your analysis, they are both in the auxiliary position: information-gathering and logic-producing.

    It just goes back to what I said before, you're not capturing the essence of personality here. Just elements of cognition. That's all those are.
    No. ESTPs lead with Se. Ti supports Se. Together, they merge to create the first coping strategy. Reliance on concrete externalities that get fed to a logic function. The logic function feeds back to Se which then reacts. Sometimes Se just reacts on its own.

    But again, you're going down a rabbit hole. WTF does any of this have to do with calling either predictive or forecasting functions? You're dissembling because you don't want to admit you're wrong.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    No. ESTPs lead with Se. Ti supports Se. Together, they merge to create the first coping strategy. Reliance on concrete externalities that get fed to a logic function. The logic function feeds back to Se which then reacts. Sometimes Se just reacts on its own.

    But again, you're going down a rabbit hole. WTF does any of this have to do with calling either predictive or forecasting functions? You're dissembling because you don't want to admit you're wrong.
    I appreciate your analysis in the first paragraph. But I never mentioned any functions until you brought up functions. I don't need intuition to predict things, for that I only need experience.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #45
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I appreciate your analysis in the first paragraph. But I never mentioned any functions until you brought up functions. I don't need intuition to predict things, for that I only need experience.
    Again, rabbit hole since you have Si as your secondary coping strategy which is irrelevant to ESTPs.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Again, rabbit hole since you have Si as your secondary coping strategy which is irrelevant to ESTPs.
    I have no idea what that means. Experience does not mean "Si." Si deals in concrete symbols and imagery from the unconscious.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #47
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I have no idea what that means. Experience does not mean "Si." Si deals in concrete symbols and imagery from the unconscious.
    Accepted axiom comparisons from the past to present.

    Shall we discuss Fi now, which is just as relevant to this discussion as Si. In other words, not even a tiny bit, as it relates to your erroneous assumption of predictive qualities to Se/Ti.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Accepted axiom comparisons from the past to present.

    Shall we discuss Fi now, which is just as relevant to this discussion as Si. In other words, not even a tiny bit, as it relates to your erroneous assumption of predictive qualities to Se/Ti.
    Now do you see why I don't normally deal in functions? They don't give any useful information.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #49
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Now do you see why I don't normally deal in functions? They don't give any useful information.
    Are you being deliberately obtuse?

  10. #50
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Are you being deliberately obtuse?
    Do I look like the warden at Shawshank prison?

    I've stated on this forum many times that I have given up on function analysis. It is only useful for those who like ad hoc typing methodologies.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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