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ENFP/INFP

autumn

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Oct 5, 2007
Messages
106
MBTI Type
eNFP
Several years ago when I first took the Keirsey Temperament Sorter and had no idea what it was, I scored as an ENFP. I answered the questions honestly and uncoerced, in a comfortable environment with a supportive friend administering. The description really seemed to fit quite well.

It wasn't until years later that I really took an intense interest in MBTI and Keirsey and started to study the theory behind it and get to know the types and everything better. Again I took the KTS, just for kicks, and again scored solidly in the ENFP range. Again the type description fits me the best out of all 16 possibilities, though I have mellowed with age and practiced using more of my functions.

However, nearly every online MBTI-type indicator I have taken scores me as an INFP. I have read many type descriptions for INFP, and while a lot of it resonates with me, I do think the ENFP descriptions fit better.

I took the cognitive processes indicator, and the results were interesting--Ne and Fi were almost equal, Ne winning out by a small margin of about two points. Again, this would seem to indicate ENFP, if only barely. However, the score I was given was INFP. The only reason for that that I can think of is that my Ne and Fi were almost equal for dominant and auxiliary, and the next two cognitive processes in line were Ni and Ti, which makes three out of my top four cognitive processes introverted ones. Perhaps that tipped the scales over to introvertedness, as far as the indicator was concerned? (Ne, Fi, Te, and Si were in that order, the ENFP order, but other processes were interspersed between them in prominence.)

Another interesting thing is that recently two friends of mine, one who scores ENFP and another who scores INFP both pegged me as an INFP. The ENFP pal is pretty interested in MBTI herself and said that she estimated the NFP pretty readily but was uncertain whether to choose I or E when typing me.

Another very close friend, who is an INTP and is very interested in MBTI (and who is the one who originally gave me the KTS!) put forward the theory that I "hide" my dominant function somewhat. I do think that as I have gotten older I have made an attempt to rein in the Ne around most people. And if my Ne and Fi are as close as the cognitive processes results indicate, it makes sense that while reining in my Ne I may appear to have dominant Fi, or at least to be an xNFP.

I do think that overall, ENFP fits me better. With Ne and Fi so far in the lead, the NFP part is pretty much chiseled into the marble statue of my being and surrounded by flashing Vegas lights (metaphorical ones, LOL). At times I have been tempted to think of myself as an xNFP, but something about putting an x in there annoys me, as though it's indicating indecisiveness on my part or something. (I don't mind when other people do it, if they are still determining their best-fit type or have definitely scored 50/50 on some part, but something about it strikes me as "unfinished," if that makes sense.) Further, there don't seem to be any meaningful type descriptions for 50/50 E/I types, and I really do think that the descriptions for the ENFP fit me better overall than those for INFP.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Why is the KTS the only one that has consistently (well, twice over the course of several years) scored me as ENFP, while so many others have scored me as INFP? I have never taken an official MBTI; I wonder how that would score?

autumn
 

Mondo

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EsTP
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6w7
My theory is that you think your Fi is stronger than it actually is or that your Ne is weaker than it actually is.
I am personally a KTS fan myself, I think it asks the best questions.
The cognitive process test gives you an idea of how important certain functions are to you but it is a poor way of actually determining your personality type.
You are likely an ENFP but I don't know much about how you act in social situations to actually determine whether you are an E or an I.

Personal story though, as someone who was in the XNFP territory.
I considered ENFP too but I made sure to be honest with myself- am I really energized by contact with a wide range of people? I enjoy being around other people but I can't say that is where I get my energy from. I tend to be more quiet in group conversations and have been called a good listener. Another reason, in my case, was that I associated extraversion with positive factors and introversion with negative factors.. that the introvert is antisocial. I wanted to be an extravert because I associated it with being 'good'. However, I've learned from studying this subject that this is not true and there are introverts that love people and extraverts that hate people, lol.
 

arcticangel02

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Oct 5, 2007
Messages
892
MBTI Type
eNFP
There is actually a difference between the theories of Kiersey and Myers-Briggs. They use the same code, which makes it confusing, but there is a distinct difference between the two theories, to the point where it could be possible to be an ENFP according to Kiersey and an INFP according to Myers-Briggs.

Keirsey expands on his criticism of Jung in Please Understand Me II. For example, on p331, he states that:

"Myers' E-I scale is badly flawed because she inherited Jung's error of confusing extraversion with observation (S) and introversion with introspection (N). And so to make the E-I distinction useful at all, we must define the two concepts, not in terms of mental focus or interest, but in terms of social address or social attitude".

This changes the meaning of the Jungian terms quite radically: social attitude, as appears to the outside observer, is a very different concept to mental focus of cognitive functions. Clearly, when Keirsey refers to "E/I", he means something quite different to what Jung and Briggs-Myers meant. When we talk about extraversion, or the letter "E" in the type code, then it is akin to using the word "trunk" in the US or UK. When we are talking temperament, we mean one thing; when we are talking type, we mean another. Unfortunately, because the same letter is used in both systems, the misunderstanding may not be recognised.

Taken from Keirsey Temperament and Myers Briggs personality type

Hopefully that will help some? I'm honestly not too sure of the theories and their differences myself.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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Apr 24, 2007
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INTP
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9w8
I'd reckon the main difference between ENFP and INFP would be the latent ESTJ in an INFP as opposed to the ENFP's ISTJ.

INFPs when angered become very sergeant major ish and tend to go on the attack where as an angered ENFP defends primarily.
 

arcticangel02

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Oct 5, 2007
Messages
892
MBTI Type
eNFP
I'd reckon the main difference between ENFP and INFP would be the latent ESTJ in an INFP as opposed to the ENFP's ISTJ.

INFPs when angered become very sergeant major ish and tend to go on the attack where as an angered ENFP defends primarily.

Hm, I haven't thought about that before... I'm not quite sure how that might play out, though. Can you maybe expand/offer examples?

Thanks. :)
 

Xander

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9w8
Hm, I haven't thought about that before... I'm not quite sure how that might play out, though. Can you maybe expand/offer examples?

Thanks. :)
Well I've been slowly expanding for a few years so if you don't mind I'd rather not increase the rate thanks very much.

As for examples, an INFP I know blew up once when I was in the vicinity. He basically pointed out all the other persons flaws while exiting the building (presumably the usual introvert hating to make such a show of themselves). He was loud and looked like he was about to actually explode.

Now the ENFP I know quite well, and have annoyed on many many wonderous occasions ( :devil: ), will usually blow up pointing out the specific flaws in my arguements or other wise attacking whatever I am founding my arguments on. He is less prone to directly attacking me and also has little problem staying in the room whilst annoyed.

Out of the two, the extrovert forgives quicker. The INFP bears grudges.

I guess the other evidence is produced by stress. The INFP has shown me several of his rough drafts for a piece of writing, asking for input. When I criticise he get's in the mind set of "well f' you buddy!!" quite quickly.. or at least he used to.

Now the ENFP, when he was stressed and came over looking for advice and someone to talk to I could have told him the seven steps to nirvanna and a million pounds and he'd have come up with some reason why it wouldn't work, or just flat out deny it.

Stressed ENFP = No it isn't.
Stressed INFP = I'm going to force it.
 

Xander

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:blush:........

Ah, so true :yes:

.........:devil:

Xander, you know ENFP's almost too well. :nono:
Ah... I have a bruise on my head that looks remarkably like an imprint of textured paint. It comes from hours of battering the exterior walls of my house. I am familiar with the negotiation process :D

Mind you though I'm learning a new style ENFP now. I have to build this one up to talk to people :thinking: That's just odd.
 

autumn

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Oct 5, 2007
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106
MBTI Type
eNFP
Xander: The shadow is a worthwhile thing to consider. I'm pretty mellow and happy-go-lucky most of the time, but I think if really pressed I would be more inclined to defend rather than attack. Again, apparently that would fit better with ENFP.

arcticangel02, thank you for the interesting link! I will have to think about that some more. I would love to finally get my hands on a copy of Gifts Differing and read some Linda Berens too.

I still do think I am ENFP rather than xNFP, because the scale indeed seems to tip, even if ever so slightly, toward ENFP. But why do most indicators type me as INFP, and why do friends who knew me even when I was younger (and, it would seem, presented the image of a more archetypal ENFP) guess INFP for me?

The article that arcticangel02 linked to made a good point about Se being the definitive link for the SP temperament according to Keirsey, and thus even the introverted SPs, such as ISTP, being described in more of a Se way than a Ti way. But the NF temperament is not linked in such a way that all NFs share a dominance of Ne or Ni, Fe or Fi. I wonder what the different understanding of I/E would be there, with regard to Myers-Briggs and Keirsey?

autumn
 

Xander

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9w8
Autumn,
Being typed by friends as introverted merely means you are more introverted than they are or match up to their definitions of introvert.

Have you ever had a moderated test done with a qualified examiner? That can make all the difference.

As for introverted ENFPs, the one I'm trying to assist now is like that. I'm beginning to figure that some ENFPs are just not people orientated. Of course my father noted his negative feedback style and saw the past thing which have happened to him as crushing his spirit and making him negative and withdrawn. Me... I'm not so sure....

Do ALL ENFPs love people?
 

arcticangel02

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Messages
892
MBTI Type
eNFP
I've got the same confusion - the friends I know who are familiar with MBTI put me quite easily in the category of introvert, and they are introverts themselves. My family does the same, even though they're not really familiar with the theory, and I assume remember quite vividly my teenage years, when I was very daydreamy and off with the fairies!

When I asked my INTP friend about it, she did admit that "I didn't seem to get tired of people", and she didn't know I interacted with other friends, so she couldn't really say.

But yeah, it definitely doesn't help with the whole categorisation thing. ;)

Xander, I don't think all ENFPs love people, per se, but I think to a certain extent we can't help but be fascinated and drawn to them. It definitely depends on the people around you, and I certainly can't speak for every ENFP (especially since I'm not entirely sure I'm completely one myself! ;)) but I would think that an ENFP shunning all human contact is not a natural reaction, and possibly due to mentioned past event?
 

Xander

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Xander, I don't think all ENFPs love people, per se, but I think to a certain extent we can't help but be fascinated and drawn to them. It definitely depends on the people around you, and I certainly can't speak for every ENFP (especially since I'm not entirely sure I'm completely one myself! ;)) but I would think that an ENFP shunning all human contact is not a natural reaction, and possibly due to mentioned past event?
It's possible. It's just I see no evidence of people. He's got the usual ENFP computer with stacks of photos of everything from the person he went there with (wherever there is) to a twig which happened to be there. He's got the ENFP music collection (ie one with absolutely no focus or restriction). There is however little evidence of friends having influence.

Now I wouldn't think that this was particularly odd in an ENFP as you guys are such "individuals" (read eccentric strange cat ladies and odd bushy haired blokes). However for there to be such a bare shelf where past group things should rest (speaking figuratively) in combination with such fascination with dry subjects like programming (one of the few subjects which will get him chatting) makes me wonder if all the :wub: impression of an ENFP is slightly polarised.

I questioned my father on what he thought to an ENFP who wasn't interested in people and an ENFP who was "negative feedback"... his answer to both pretty much said that such an ENFP must be wounded somehow.

It is odd though. A wounded ENFP seems like an INTP to me. A cheerful one ( ;) ) but an INTP all the same.
Actually I don't love people, I just love the interaction situations with people. :yes:
:rofl1: That's like a dog saying that it's not that they love food, they just love the taste :D
 

Dom

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Apr 28, 2007
Messages
458
MBTI Type
ENFP
Humans are the most fascinating thing to play with, they have their own thoughts and everything, you push button A and don't always get the same result!

As for withdrawn ENFPs.. one of the most amazingly odd suggestion was that ENFPs draw energy from social interaction. I find that that (in my case) is total tosh, sure I can go longer than an INTP before i want to cahse all these wierd other people out of my life, and sure it may only need be for a few hours and stuff, but I find I can cope with being alone in the house for longer than Gen can.

Xander is the enfp in question the one about to become a dad again? The one thing that makes me unsure of that designation for him is his ability to complete projects....

As for enfps being people people, I do love being sociable, but hell I can get grumpy with it too, and contary to popular opinion, I do not have a huge soical ciricle and am usless at keeping up with the important ones.

I don't think an enfp who is a bit more stand offish with people is neccesairly damaged goods. If I allowed the NFP paranoia to swamp my brain I'd withdraw loads too, to try to avoid being hurt, mind you I suppose one could argue that I AM damaged goods lol. The negative feedback is odd but also understandable. While a lack of positve feedback results in a withering ego in me, too much gets rejected too. Also while I love positive feedback I do not listen to it as much as negative when I approach my work atleast.
 

Xander

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9w8
As for withdrawn ENFPs.. one of the most amazingly odd suggestion was that ENFPs draw energy from social interaction. I find that that (in my case) is total tosh, sure I can go longer than an INTP before i want to cahse all these wierd other people out of my life, and sure it may only need be for a few hours and stuff, but I find I can cope with being alone in the house for longer than Gen can.
Human interaction more than social. ENFPs don't like crowds.
Xander is the enfp in question the one about to become a dad again? The one thing that makes me unsure of that designation for him is his ability to complete projects....
What projects? And no but thanks I now realise I have 3 fuc... errm :blush: ENFPs in my life.


:devil:
 

Dom

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458
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ENFP
Human interaction more than social. ENFPs don't like crowds.

What projects? And no but thanks I now realise I have 3 fuc... errm :blush: ENFPs in my life.


:devil:

ah.. the little dom in cov??

Well i'm not sure it's really sunk in that I'm going to have a fuc.... INTP wife soon!!!
 

arcticangel02

To the top of the world
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Oct 5, 2007
Messages
892
MBTI Type
eNFP
It's possible. It's just I see no evidence of people. He's got the usual ENFP computer with stacks of photos of everything from the person he went there with (wherever there is) to a twig which happened to be there. He's got the ENFP music collection (ie one with absolutely no focus or restriction). There is however little evidence of friends having influence.

Now I wouldn't think that this was particularly odd in an ENFP as you guys are such "individuals" (read eccentric strange cat ladies and odd bushy haired blokes). However for there to be such a bare shelf where past group things should rest (speaking figuratively) in combination with such fascination with dry subjects like programming (one of the few subjects which will get him chatting) makes me wonder if all the :wub: impression of an ENFP is slightly polarised.

I questioned my father on what he thought to an ENFP who wasn't interested in people and an ENFP who was "negative feedback"... his answer to both pretty much said that such an ENFP must be wounded somehow.

It is odd though. A wounded ENFP seems like an INTP to me. A cheerful one ( ;) ) but an INTP all the same.

:rofl1: Eccentric cat ladies! :D

Well, seeing as both extraversion and feeling have a tendancy to be slightly more people-oriented functions, it makes perfect sense that an EF that doesn't like people would come off slightly more like an IT than typical. :)

And there is also the difference affected by gender, as we all know females are, to a certain extent, permitted to be much more mushy and :wub: in day to day life than males. :tongue:

And if you look at the cognitive functions - ENFPs are NeFi... Ne is all about ideas, trains of thought, etc, so not nessecarily to do with people (although people are certainly a very interesting way to bounce your thoughts off). And Fi is all about internal values... again, feasibly requiring little influence from people to operate comfortable.

Anyway, I think the point I'm trying to say, is that although people may feasibly not be necessarily be the main focus of an ENFP (and merely a trifling amusement, for example), I think for an ENFP to have no interest in people whatsoever is beyond what I would consider a normal derivation from the norm...

I suppose, when it comes down to it, a fair bit of the :wub: I give out is 'staged', so to speak. It's done for the benefit of the people around me, rather than strictly for myself (although it makes them happy and like me more so it ends up being a benefit for myself, but ANYWAY) so an ENFP without other people to impress may be a whole lot more subdued and sensible than normally expected.

I just wonder how an ENFP might feel no desire to interact with people. :)

As for withdrawn ENFPs.. one of the most amazingly odd suggestion was that ENFPs draw energy from social interaction. I find that that (in my case) is total tosh, sure I can go longer than an INTP before i want to cahse all these wierd other people out of my life, and sure it may only need be for a few hours and stuff, but I find I can cope with being alone in the house for longer than Gen can.

I'd say we can get energy from social interaction, so long as it's the right sort (SP interaction is rarely involving for me, somehow), we don't necessarily rely on it, like other extraverted types might. I, too, have no problem at all with being alone in my room for quite some time, without any people around. But then I find I have to distract myself with music and something else to do. Without people around I get bored very quickly.

I don't think an enfp who is a bit more stand offish with people is neccesairly damaged goods. If I allowed the NFP paranoia to swamp my brain I'd withdraw loads too, to try to avoid being hurt, mind you I suppose one could argue that I AM damaged goods lol. The negative feedback is odd but also understandable. While a lack of positve feedback results in a withering ego in me, too much gets rejected too. Also while I love positive feedback I do not listen to it as much as negative when I approach my work atleast.

I agree, so it really depends on how 'nonsocial' this ENFP fellow is - just slightly standoffish? Absolutely normal. Completely asocial? Not so...
 

Dom

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458
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ENFP
:rofl1: Eccentric cat ladies! :D

Well, seeing as both extraversion and feeling have a tendancy to be slightly more people-oriented functions, it makes perfect sense that an EF that doesn't like people would come off slightly more like an IT than typical. :)

And there is also the difference affected by gender, as we all know females are, to a certain extent, permitted to be much more mushy and :wub: in day to day life than males. :tongue:

And if you look at the cognitive functions - ENFPs are NeFi... Ne is all about ideas, trains of thought, etc, so not nessecarily to do with people (although people are certainly a very interesting way to bounce your thoughts off). And Fi is all about internal values... again, feasibly requiring little influence from people to operate comfortable.

Anyway, I think the point I'm trying to say, is that although people may feasibly not be necessarily be the main focus of an ENFP (and merely a trifling amusement, for example), I think for an ENFP to have no interest in people whatsoever is beyond what I would consider a normal derivation from the norm...

I suppose, when it comes down to it, a fair bit of the :wub: I give out is 'staged', so to speak. It's done for the benefit of the people around me, rather than strictly for myself (although it makes them happy and like me more so it ends up being a benefit for myself, but ANYWAY) so an ENFP without other people to impress may be a whole lot more subdued and sensible than normally expected.

I just wonder how an ENFP might feel no desire to interact with people. :)



I'd say we can get energy from social interaction, so long as it's the right sort (SP interaction is rarely involving for me, somehow), we don't necessarily rely on it, like other extraverted types might. I, too, have no problem at all with being alone in my room for quite some time, without any people around. But then I find I have to distract myself with music and something else to do. Without people around I get bored very quickly.



I agree, so it really depends on how 'nonsocial' this ENFP fellow is - just slightly standoffish? Absolutely normal. Completely asocial? Not so...

Another explanation is that this potential indifference to people in an ENFP is really a mirror, and it's feigned either conciously or subconciously...

I can see how an enfp would do this as a defense mechanism... I personally couldn't imagine being able to pull it off (unless it was subconcous)....
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
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Mar 29, 2008
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3,621
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INTP
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548
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sp/sx
As for examples, an INFP I know blew up once when I was in the vicinity. He basically pointed out all the other persons flaws while exiting the building (presumably the usual introvert hating to make such a show of themselves). He was loud and looked like he was about to actually explode.

Now the ENFP I know quite well, and have annoyed on many many wonderous occasions ( :devil: ), will usually blow up pointing out the specific flaws in my arguements or other wise attacking whatever I am founding my arguments on. He is less prone to directly attacking me and also has little problem staying in the room whilst annoyed.

Out of the two, the extrovert forgives quicker. The INFP bears grudges.

I guess the other evidence is produced by stress. The INFP has shown me several of his rough drafts for a piece of writing, asking for input. When I criticise he get's in the mind set of "well f' you buddy!!" quite quickly.. or at least he used to.

Now the ENFP, when he was stressed and came over looking for advice and someone to talk to I could have told him the seven steps to nirvanna and a million pounds and he'd have come up with some reason why it wouldn't work, or just flat out deny it.

Stressed ENFP = No it isn't.
Stressed INFP = I'm going to force it.
I'd reckon the main difference between ENFP and INFP would be the latent ESTJ in an INFP as opposed to the ENFP's ISTJ.

INFPs when angered become very sergeant major ish and tend to go on the attack where as an angered ENFP defends primarily.

Introverts, from the original temperament observations have a longer response delay. So they build up anger more slowly then the extroverts, but then they will explode, sometimes violently. The "butler who did it" could have been a INFP who served his master faithfully, felt used, and then reacted in a murderous rage. The directing introverts will tend to hold grudges longer, but an informing introvert such as the INFP will hold them too if the issue is not resolved.

The informing extrovert is so people-oriented, they will want to get over conflict faster.
 
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