But even though, yes, an MBTI test should be designed specifically for that purpose, how is it possible to properly distinguish the two? Especially when trying to test someone who may not be that self-aware, or familiar with the system? Both tests ask questions about behaviour, since that's what's visible and quantifiable on the outside. Kiersey takes that as it is, but MBTI attempts to use the external picture to describe what happens on the inside. Not always that accurate, unfortunately.
Interesting. I don't know if I can really say which preference that would indicte, though - what were your reasonings for signing up with the Air Force? To prove your dad wrong? Or because it was simply the best way out of minimum wage jobs? If you can, maybe go through your thoughts/feelings at that point?Having dinner with my family last night, we recalled the time 20 years ago, when my father was having sewrious issues and taking it out on us. I was in my early 20's, and stuck in minimum wage jobs that did not pay enough for me to get out on my own. So he was harassing me about that, often drunk. (This is one of those times I was getting an overload of Te style thrown my way).
So after losing one of these jobs one afternoon, I just walked to the Times Sq. recruiting center and signed up for the Air Force.
That's perhaps the biggest "family"-related decision I made, though that also seemed to be something a lot of people did.
ALSO - very important point which I nearly missed - the military moulds people into STJ personalities. That may also explain a lot of your Te. How were you different when you were younger? Eg, late teens?
Possibly. I mean, in my own situation, I don't know if I really pay that much attention to Fi very often at all. Given, it's not my dominant function, but still - I would probably have to think long and hard to even come up with a few things that I believed steadfastly in, to the point where someone crossing those values would cause a conflict. I don't know - I suppose I use it, I must do! But as far as making 'Fi judgements', I wouldn't know what they are! I do something because it 'feels' right? Maybe, but there's usually good reasons for why that is.I thought about that too, but still, as the dominant or "hero" function, I would think it would have more of a positive connotation a lot of the times; at least when they think of it outside of the negative reaction. A lot of times, it is hard for me to make Fi judgments, and I end up indifferent to things, or look for a logical reason for a decision.
I don't feel like I really have that solid center that Fi is supposed to offer - oftentimes I worry that I change my opinions too often, depending on what other people think. Or maybe this is just a matter of me believing that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and nobody is ever wrong, as such?
Indifferent is also something I wonder about, sometimes. Do you ever feel 'detatched' from a conversation, like you're there, sure, and you're reacting to those people around you - often appearing quite involved - but somehow, it's a little like you're floating above it all, and even as you interact, there's still pieces of you that are wondering about this and that that have nothing to do with the current situation? I get that. But maybe that's Ne.
Ah, I don't know. I can't really identify Fi very easily, so this probably isn't helping things much.
Oftentimes the borderline is very fuzzy indeed! Who can tell where Ti stops and Fi starts? For one person what they may consider a feeling decision, another might chalk it up to thinking. It's personal, for sure.Again, the Fi/Ti distinction, as well as "negative use of primary function vs positive use of shadow function" seems to be very fuzzy. Ti really does not seem to have any of that negative connotation, or something that comes up mostly under stress, and then is basically misused, or "destructuve". This is what came to mind first, and then when I looked at Fi (and Te) to compare, it was like yeah; those are what seem to have more of a strictly negative association).
And well, I can't exactly argue, if for you, those have had more of a negative association, wheras Ti has not.
Yes, absolutely. The ENFJ, for example, although I love them, they're great - they're so different from me function-wise... I find it very difficult to believe that people can get stuck on the J/P dichotomy!Well, like Keirsey said, E/I is the least important dichotomy. Looking at the functions, two types with only an E/I difference willhave the same primary functions, in a different order (types with totally opposite T/F + J/P will have the same functions as well, but they'll be totally reversed, and this is what you all call the "shadow")
Maybe the lower (i.e inferior) Te of the INFP is what causes the slightly negative connotations for you? Because you had to develop it prematurely?Everyone claims to be seeing "heavy" Te with me. Others say ENFP (though I'm not really "flighty" and stuff like that, though I can be occasionally, with close friends), and a few of you are suggesting INFP. For that type, Te is even lower, in the inferior position (and bordering on "shadow"). Online, such as these discussions, is basically recreation for me, although I am "into it", and often rushed if I have to go to work or bed, or something else, like you described above (and then the board/site starts freezing down on top of it:steam
My Si is pretty poor, but according to theory, it's not until later in adulthood that I should really start to develop this function. It does cause headaches when I am required to depend on it.
But you're clearly older than I am, so you're going to be more well-rounded, function-wise. Which also complicates things! But yes, these boards are also fun for me - I enjoy stretching my brain and debating skills when I so choose.
Yes, see, I'm quite the opposite. I couldn't keep that sort of information in my mind for more than a minute, even if I tried. Which I don't, because I sort of think it's pointless. And as far as birthday presents, well, I am also guilty of 'not being bothered' on that case and just saying I forgot. Though usually that's only when I have to put a big last-minute rush into it because I forgot up until then!I think I'm a lot like that, and again, underestimated it.
How would you say your Fe manifests itself?
At least you're aware, that's the important thing!I'm quite aware of that, and I have noted it is becoming harder to take these tests. In the test my wife administers, they clearly say the person should now know too much about it, else, it will be compromised. (I used to start talking about it with friends she was planning to test, and she would tell me not to do that. I put a big warning up on the beginning of my page describing the theory). What I meant, was, since I still have my choices I made on both that and the Step II subscales, to just review and see if I might have scored to high or low on them. Again, I was letting my wife look a the Step II, and I'm sure she will say I scored too high on the T/F scales. She already said that for E over I.
And I've never taken the Step II, so I don't really know how it works, exactly, or what conclusions you can draw.
So, when you're married to someone for a while, if you're of similar type, you'll start to drift away from each other in order to pick up the slack that naturally wouldn't be taken care of. Yet on the other hand, if you're quite different, like in the case of my parent's relationship (ESTJ father and IsFP mother), they seem to have gravitated towards each other - my mother comes off like an ISTJ in many situations. Dad is also more F than he was, but still quite clearly ESTJ. That may be because he's such a strong personality, that everyone has to get into line with his way of doing things? I don't know. But it seems like one of those two things will happen, anyway. Thoughts?Now, I have my Fe Dom. wife who will do all that stuff. So it's like I have fallen off on Fe. But I'm remembering that I was more into remembering people's birthdays, and such before her.
Hmm. Quite possibly, but from observations, it seems a little different. This may just be my perception of it, but nonetheless: Fe seems to me to be more like... how do I describe this properly? Imposing their own beliefs about how you should be feeling on other people? Hrm. That sounds bad, but let me try and explain. Like, one quote an ESFJ friend of mine found somewhere, which I found wonderfully appropriate, went: "I will fight for you, even if you don't think you need me to."So what is different; the motivation? Fi/Fe can also be another fuzzy distinction. In one of Hartzler's exercises (Fi7), it appears to involve connecting with others. But then this is supposedly about looking at their values in light of your own.
I would imagine it's the Golden Rule vs. the Platinum Rule. Fi does to others what they want done to themselves, while Fe does to others purely what they want, or the values of the whole group. So I guess the ENFP in your example of "apparent Fe" is just being nice because they want others to be nice to them?
Fe is prepared to stick it's neck out there for you, and make all the motions that it is believes it is supposed to do for you. It perhaps has a tendency to overlook the possibility that perhaps you don't want that sort of attention/support - but Fe will do it anyway. Which is often great, but sometimes a little over the top. (Although maybe that's more specific to dominant Fe). Fe is loyal - it will stick with you, even if you have hurt it, or rejected it before. Fe will do all it can do to help you.
Fi, on the other hand, is more... ah, shall we say, absorbing? They divulge less of themselves. They don't nessecarily need to spill their problems to their friends in order to work through them - they may even fail to express at all, and be in need of someone else to draw them out. As opposed to the direct intervention approach of Fe, Fi will sit and listen to what you have to say, and once you have said all you have to say, will suggest solutions. Because Fi absorbs external emotion, and carries it within themselves. Fe expresses, and lets it out.
Again, I dunno if that will help any, but maybe you'll recognise somethng in there.
Here's a question - how are you at telling other people things that are very important to you? Like something that's emotionally very close to your heart. Do you express it easily, or is there something that wants to keep it protected and close to you? Say there's something that's eating at your mind, and you need to tell someone - would you rather talk to someone you don't know well, just to let it out? Or to your friends, who'll dissect it and pick it apart?
Hrm. That's a tricky one. The only really experience I have with Ti is my INTP friend's method of arguing. I notice she picks apart arguments by going after any flaw - even if it has nothing to do with the actual topic of discussion. Usually, I have very little patience with it (and besides, her Ti beats my Fi/Te in a debate anyday), but I suppose on occasions when I'm feeling crabby, it gives me a strange sort of delight to do the same to other people, and go after irrelevant little details of the sort.I seem to be able to go either way with that, but I remember being a bit more into others' needs when doing something for them, before life started getting rough.
So what is Ti really like for an ENFP? It's supposed to be "trickster", meaning they are not normally into principles or categories, but under stress may become rigid about selected principles thinking it will ensure sucess when it wont. Do you have any examples of this?
I can't really give you any examples of becoming rigid about selected principles - I'm lucky in the sense that I have not really ever had to deal with operating under serious levels of stress. Under general everyday stress, like deadlines, I either go into Te-mode, which gets the things that are stressing me out done and finished with, or, if it's not solvable with that mode (for example, I'm doing too much, the future's going to be way overloaded with work and i know I'm going to drown in it) I go to pieces and get panicky and can't seem to hold onto anything. I don't know if that tells you much, though.