User Tag List

First 23456 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 140

Thread: ENFP/INFP

  1. #31
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Good point. Sometimes you have to wonder if they want to get it over at all though. The ENFJ "well f' you and all your ancestors" is a prime example!
    Well, ENFJ is directive, not informative. NJ and ST are directing, and NP and SF are informing. So yes, a directive will tend to have that kind of attitude, too. You had earlier mentioned something like this for an INFP/ The INFP might biuld up to that point and explode like that because of his introversion. The Directive type, whether introverted or introverted will tend to be more critical like that. Only thin, you still have the same dynamic of the introvert building up and exploding, so the IN-J's reaction may be worse than the EN-J who's been constantly barking at you, and perhaps almost getting a kick out of it.
    Btw, my problem ENFP has all four (or five if we're being technical) temperament elements except choleric. His strive for success has been chopped off. Any ideas?
    ENFP would be a Sanguine in the social area (Inclusion). This would correspond to the Get Things Going Interaction Style (extraverted, informing). It could also be a blend of Sanguine with Phlegmatic (which just tempers down the traits a bit).
    NF sould seem to be closest to either a Phlegmatic in Control (which is very diplomatic like NF), or possibly even Supine, the fifth temperament. More likely, a Supine-Phlegmatic blend, as the pure Supine has dependency issues I don't see in most NF descriptions. (they can't make independent decisions, yet the Phlegmatic and Supine-Phlegmatic blend are more independent).
    Then, in Affection, he could be anything, as that area doesn't seem well represented (at least not directly) in the type system. If he's Melancholy in that area, and the other three in the other areas, then he would be as you say, a blend of all temperaments except Choleric.

    Has your brother taken the FIRO also like you and your father? Then we can get a better idea. As ENFP, I would expect a high e and w in Inclusion (People Gatherer, like you, but most likely with higher scores), moderate scores in Control (Matcher, like you, but with lower eC, or a Checker with even lower eC than Matcher, or maybe Loyal Lieutenant or Openly Dependant (low eC/higher wC), and perahaps a Pessimist in Affection (low e&w).

    I had been typed as ENFP, and have been trying it on, yet there has always been questions about it. In addition to it apparently not matching the critical "Choleric" aspect of my personality as my APS score did (and an NTP type would seem to better fit), I have really been thinking about my function use. While some people say they have observed Fi and Te and I had at first accepted that, I think I might have learned those, in defense basically (due to coming from a very heavily "Te" STJ environment, who often hit you with it full force), but Ti "frameworks", "leveraging", "analyzing", etc. are really the more natural companions to my obvious Ne pref.

    I am still in the process of fully understanding the archetypes, and I was also thinking about starting a thread in this sub-forum on my own type, but I wanted to think of more examples of my process use to show. I know some have said they read my pages on the correlation between the FIRO-APS system with the MBTI and Keirsey, and I have also discussed a lot of it here.
    So those who have read my stuff, would you say it reflects more FP'ish "puer" Te and preferred Fi, or more TP'ish preferred Ti? Sometimes, it's hard to tell which are which. Like which are values, or "principles", and whether the thinking is being used "internally" or "externally".
    I know I have used a framework (espressiveness and responsiveness matrices) in mapping the system together, yet I would imagine that the way I have actually spelled it out might come across as more Te-ish, especially with the tables and diagrams, and the length of it (Ti is supposed to be more "concise"). Again, I think that is just the way I have learned to express my thoughts, (and especially trying to break it down in to make people understand it); but it seems the actual internal processes might be more Ti. I have people say both ways. And ENFP's, from what I have seen, do not seem to be this much into theories and stuff, despite the dom. Ne and tertiary Te. I have joined several Yahoo groups, and do not seem to fit in. Their discussions are more like any other NF's.
    Last edited by Eric B; 05-22-2008 at 09:12 PM.

  2. #32
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Eric,
    Try checking this thread out MBTI dissection - The Puddin' and see if that helps your dissection. I believe it's more along your lines of how to think about the MBTI.

    Dom,
    Knowing the joke hidden within your profile (they each have one btw) is always damning. It is a very wise observation though.

    Alcea Rosea,
    Precisely what's wrong with being a dog? Some of my favourite people are dogs!

    What's nicer than having someone who's so happy just to see you return home for no other reason than it's you? (Well possibly the idea of food and being fed comes into it but I choose to delude myself )
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #33
    Senior Member Dom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    458

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    What's nicer than having someone who's so happy just to see you return home for no other reason than it's you? (Well possibly the idea of food and being fed comes into it but I choose to delude myself )
    I have that!! Though not in a canine form more in a Gen form...

  4. #34
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Right INFPs versus ENFPs on certainty.. I think Dom's partially right in that an ENFP can and will throw the most random ideas out there just to see if they bounce (a nice parallel is ENFPs are dolphins ). What I disagree with is the idea that INFPs feel they have to be right before proceeding... both types have to feel it's right before moving. It's a question of instinct more than precision. Most INFPs I'd imagine do pay attention to if it's "right" or not but what they can and will do is back it up with their more forceful side.

    I think that ENFPs have more force to use than INFPs but lack the focus to apply it correctly and vice versa. Hence Dom is almost there with learning off INTJs (not that he said as much) but I'd think that more could be learned from ESTJs. The reason being that INTJ is a little to close to the ENFP type (due to ESFP links) where as ESTJ should be markedly different and hence easier to pick up (a similar thing to it's easier to see that something is blue [and what shape it is] when you put it against red than if you stand it against turquoise and purple [that's way over simplified btw]).
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #35
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom View Post
    I have that!! Though not in a canine form more in a Gen form...
    A content and happy INTP is quite dog like. It's the whole innocent F thing. As one of these creatures, sometimes I'm just happy to see someone. I then try and think what to do to entertain them and so the indecision goes away. That when I go to find my new toy for us both to play with.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #36
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Well, ENFJ is directive, not informative. NJ and SF are directing, and NP and SF are informing.
    I'm presuming that you should have said that ST is directing there.. would that be right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    So yes, a directive will tend to have that kind of attitude, too. You had earlier mentioned something like this for an INFP/ The INFP might biuld up to that point and explode like that because of his introversion. The Directive type, whether introverted or introverted will tend to be more critical like that. Only thin, you still have the same dynamic of the introvert building up and exploding, so the IN-J's reaction may be worse than the EN-J who's been constantly barking at you, and perhaps almost getting a kick out of it.
    Oh hell yeah. When an introvert explodes they tend to go for the throat!
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    NF sould seem to be closest to either a Phlegmatic in Control (which is very diplomatic like NF),
    Phlegmatic in control is diplomatic?

    My instinct agrees that NF is phlegmatic in control but I'm not so sure if that's diplomatic or not. Wouldn't that be more the NF-ST "pernickety" side?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Then, in Affection, he could be anything, as that area doesn't seem well represented (at least not directly) in the type system. If he's Melancholy in that area, and the other three in the other areas, then he would be as you say, a blend of all temperaments except Choleric.
    Well the melancholy is more imposed than natural I'd imagine. The inborn temperament is more sanguine, he's just been "squashed".
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Has your brother taken the FIRO also like you and your father? Then we can get a better idea. As ENFP, I would expect a high e and w in Inclusion (People Gatherer, like you, but most likely with higher scores), moderate scores in Control (Matcher, like you, but with lower eC, or a Checker with even lower eC than Matcher, or maybe Loyal Lieutenant or Openly Dependant (low eC/higher wC), and perahaps a Pessimist in Affection (low e&w).
    Oh he's not my brother, he's a friend. The brother ENFP is Dom (see above). Well kind of brother, more socially adopted than by blood (though the arguments are definitely sibling like ).
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I had been typed as ENFP, and have been trying it on, yet there has always been questions about it. In addition to it apparently not matching the critical "Choleric" aspect of my personality as my APS score did (and an NTP type would seem to better fit), I have really been thinking about my function use. While some people say they have observed Fi and Te and I had at first accepted that, I think I might have learned those, in defense basically (due to coming from a very heavily "Te" STJ environment, who often hit you with it full force), but Ti "frameworks", "leveraging", "analyzing", etc. are really the more natural companions to my obvious Ne pref.
    ENTP and ENFP should be fairly similar aside from the choleric part. Perhaps the result was skewed by your inclusion facet?

    Make sure you check the link I posted earlier, it should illuminate a lot.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #37
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I'm presuming that you should have said that ST is directing there.. would that be right?
    Corrected

    Phlegmatic in control is diplomatic?

    My instinct agrees that NF is phlegmatic in control but I'm not so sure if that's diplomatic or not. Wouldn't that be more the NF-ST "pernickety" side?
    Well, in Keirsey's theory, the NF is described as "Diplomatic skills set", while the others are "Strategic", "Logistical", and "Tactical".
    Meanwhile, in APS, the Phlegmatic in Control is also described as a diplomat, and this is one big evidence of this correlation (Keirsey actually mixed them up and said NT was Phlegmatic, and NF was Choleric).
    The Phlegmatic is described as a peacemaker, because he has low energy and takes "the path of least resistance". Hence trying to resolve disputes and stuff like that.

    Well the melancholy is more imposed than natural I'd imagine. The inborn temperament is more sanguine, he's just been "squashed".
    OK. The ENP part of it would be the Sanguine (in Inclusion). The Control might be Phlegmatic.

  8. #38
    To the top of the world arcticangel02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    eNFP
    Posts
    892

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Right INFPs versus ENFPs on certainty.. I think Dom's partially right in that an ENFP can and will throw the most random ideas out there just to see if they bounce (a nice parallel is ENFPs are dolphins ). What I disagree with is the idea that INFPs feel they have to be right before proceeding... both types have to feel it's right before moving. It's a question of instinct more than precision. Most INFPs I'd imagine do pay attention to if it's "right" or not but what they can and will do is back it up with their more forceful side.

    I think that ENFPs have more force to use than INFPs but lack the focus to apply it correctly and vice versa. Hence Dom is almost there with learning off INTJs (not that he said as much) but I'd think that more could be learned from ESTJs. The reason being that INTJ is a little to close to the ENFP type (due to ESFP links) where as ESTJ should be markedly different and hence easier to pick up (a similar thing to it's easier to see that something is blue [and what shape it is] when you put it against red than if you stand it against turquoise and purple [that's way over simplified btw]).
    That's interesting!

    See, my father is an ESTJ, and I wonder if that's helped me be more focused in my life and work than an ordinary ENFP? Although I can be really disorganised and very good at convincing myself that such a thing really doesn't need to be done right now, I am never completely this out-of-control scattered chaos that sometimes seems to be assigned to this type...

    I am continually in awe of his general efficiency and organisation (especially more recently when I've had to work with him on organising various things)... ask him to do something/check something out/call someone? Barring some major obstruction, he'll have it done within a few hours, or by the very next day at least.

    Even if on a simply superficial level, it inspires me to be more organised myself.
    ANFP:
    Extraversion (52%) ---- Introversion (48%)
    Sensing (26%) ---- iNtuition (74%)
    Thinking (16%) ---- Feeling (84%)
    Judging (5%) ---- Perceiving (95%)

    9w1 so/sx/sp

  9. #39
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    ENTP and ENFP should be fairly similar aside from the choleric part. Perhaps the result was skewed by your inclusion facet?
    I'm leaning more towards what I would call a "passive ENTP", for now. ENTP sounds a bit too "rambunctious" to be me (It's a SanChlor, after all, and expressive in both Inclsuion and Control!) but as my Inclusion is what has been called a "passive Sanguine", then my interaction style could be called "passive Get Things Going" (I also look at it as "hyper-Behind the Scenes"), and the type therefore is "passive ENTP". Thus I also have the I/E ambiguities, but I can live with those much better than the T/F issues of trying to fit into an ENFP.
    Try checking this thread out MBTI dissection - The Puddin' and see if that helps your dissection. I believe it's more along your lines of how to think about the MBTI.

    ... it should illuminate a lot.
    OK; that's a discussion on the archetypes. Those are really interesting, and what were used to type me as ENFP. But I believe people looked at outward behavior only. Mostly, it was a so-called "personality type coach" who is fluent in Beebe's concepts who insisted on ENFP, but I'm seeing now that her motivation was that all my theorizing rubbing her the wrong way, and she picked up Te in my discussions, which is in her shadow, and said it must have been in the puer (tertiary) position, making me seem like an E-FP. I took her word for it, and I did seem to relate to both Fi and Te, but now I'm thinking those are less natural (and actually in my shadow) than Ti. She has a way of interpreting everything that I think might be Ti either as Te, or a "trickster" Ti. I am after all, working with a framework (FIRO's E/R), that I am using to compare the two systems. She claims all this putting things together "like jigsaw pieces" is Te. Maybe some of it is. But looking back on my whole lifetime of thought, I think Ti stuff is much more natural to me, and Te is just something I learned in order to deal with all the Te types I grew up with, and to express my ideas (and this same person points out that American society is basically modeled after the ESTJ. Makes a lot of sense).

    Then, I also did a rough shortcut to the Step II subscales, which also suggested ENFP. But again, I think I may have graded them too highly on the "feeling" side, thinking that "values" were more important to me than they really are. It seems many things that seem like Fi values, with me really have some underlying intellectual framework behind them.

    So again, do my writings seem more Ti or Te to everyone?

  10. #40
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Well, ENFJ is directive, not informative. NJ and ST are directing, and NP and SF are informing. So yes, a directive will tend to have that kind of attitude, too. You had earlier mentioned something like this for an INFP/ The INFP might biuld up to that point and explode like that because of his introversion. The Directive type, whether introverted or introverted will tend to be more critical like that. Only thin, you still have the same dynamic of the introvert building up and exploding, so the IN-J's reaction may be worse than the EN-J who's been constantly barking at you, and perhaps almost getting a kick out of it.

    ENFP would be a Sanguine in the social area (Inclusion). This would correspond to the Get Things Going Interaction Style (extraverted, informing). It could also be a blend of Sanguine with Phlegmatic (which just tempers down the traits a bit).
    NF sould seem to be closest to either a Phlegmatic in Control (which is very diplomatic like NF), or possibly even Supine, the fifth temperament. More likely, a Supine-Phlegmatic blend, as the pure Supine has dependency issues I don't see in most NF descriptions. (they can't make independent decisions, yet the Phlegmatic and Supine-Phlegmatic blend are more independent).
    Then, in Affection, he could be anything, as that area doesn't seem well represented (at least not directly) in the type system. If he's Melancholy in that area, and the other three in the other areas, then he would be as you say, a blend of all temperaments except Choleric.

    Has your brother taken the FIRO also like you and your father? Then we can get a better idea. As ENFP, I would expect a high e and w in Inclusion (People Gatherer, like you, but most likely with higher scores), moderate scores in Control (Matcher, like you, but with lower eC, or a Checker with even lower eC than Matcher, or maybe Loyal Lieutenant or Openly Dependant (low eC/higher wC), and perahaps a Pessimist in Affection (low e&w).

    I had been typed as ENFP, and have been trying it on, yet there has always been questions about it. In addition to it apparently not matching the critical "Choleric" aspect of my personality as my APS score did (and an NTP type would seem to better fit), I have really been thinking about my function use. While some people say they have observed Fi and Te and I had at first accepted that, I think I might have learned those, in defense basically (due to coming from a very heavily "Te" STJ environment, who often hit you with it full force), but Ti "frameworks", "leveraging", "analyzing", etc. are really the more natural companions to my obvious Ne pref.

    I am still in the process of fully understanding the archetypes, and I was also thinking about starting a thread in this sub-forum on my own type, but I wanted to think of more examples of my process use to show. I know some have said they read my pages on the correlation between the FIRO-APS system with the MBTI and Keirsey, and I have also discussed a lot of it here.
    So those who have read my stuff, would you say it reflects more FP'ish "puer" Te and preferred Fi, or more TP'ish preferred Ti? Sometimes, it's hard to tell which are which. Like which are values, or "principles", and whether the thinking is being used "internally" or "externally".
    I know I have used a framework (espressiveness and responsiveness matrices) in mapping the system together, yet I would imagine that the way I have actually spelled it out might come across as more Te-ish, especially with the tables and diagrams, and the length of it (Ti is supposed to be more "concise"). Again, I think that is just the way I have learned to express my thoughts, (and especially trying to break it down in to make people understand it); but it seems the actual internal processes might be more Ti. I have people say both ways. And ENFP's, from what I have seen, do not seem to be this much into theories and stuff, despite the dom. Ne and tertiary Te. I have joined several Yahoo groups, and do not seem to fit in. Their discussions are more like any other NF's.
    oh come on. I am teaching myself vector calculus right now (so that I can understand theoretical meteorology) , I just wrote paper on a book I read about economic development in China, and I've probably read more material on psychological types than you plan to read in your lifetime. I also read Lee Smolin's book "The trouble with physics" last year. So what if you didn't fit in with a discussion group, those people are there because they identify with the stereotype of ENFP. And I bet that only some are actually ENFPs.

    Now read the type caption under my name. Do you trust that?

Similar Threads

  1. [INFP] ENFP/INFP differences in dealing with conflict
    By Anomoly in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-25-2015, 07:06 PM
  2. [ENFP] ENFPs & INFPs: Our Relationship
    By Adasta in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 79
    Last Post: 10-13-2011, 04:14 PM
  3. [ENFP] ENFP/INFP relationship
    By tortoise in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-10-2010, 08:55 PM
  4. [MBTItm] ENFP / INFP couples?
    By Mighty Mouse in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 08-31-2010, 12:25 PM
  5. [MBTItm] ENFP-INFP: How much emotion and vulnerability do you show others?
    By heart in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 05-22-2010, 10:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO