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  1. #11
    Senior Member Joehobo's Avatar
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    I agree with raine, even I experience that. I don't think it is uncommon to the type.

    Also, 9's can type as 6 as well, considering it is their disintegration direction. Only thing is it obviously not so consistent in the bigger picture.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    I noticed I seem to have a similar thought pattern to other sixes: "blah blah blah....but then again...or maybe....on the other hand...but I could be wrong..." :P

    On the other hand (), I really don't relate to the core issues of security, faith and skepticism, trust and distrust, authority, etc...I just don't really think about those things. Also, my attention doesn't go toward possible dangers. What dangers? But when it comes to doubt and needing affirmation and approval, that's where I really relate. Also, I think I tend to magnify problems rather than downplay them like a 9. So six is kind of a mixed bag for me....

    Anyways...I'm kinda bored right now so I'm gonna try something.

    Security: Uh...I don't really think about this unless it's a problem. When it comes to financial security...meh. As long as I have enough money to get by, I'm fine, and I don't really worry about money....Except that one time when I was living on campus and almost completely ran out of money. That made me worry quite a bit...When it comes to safety though, I tend to be very cautious. I'm not a risk taker.

    Faith/Skepticism: I'm an atheist. I wasn't raised into any religion, so I got to decide that for myself. I don't think I could ever believe in God without any evidence. That kind of faith just doesn't make sense to me. I tend to be skeptical of things in general, unless they come from a credible source.

    Trust/Distrust: I'm neither too trusting nor too suspicious. I think I'm pretty realistic on the issue of trust. Most people are trustworthy, but since you never know, it's always good to be cautious. If the person says or does something that makes me not trust them, I'll be especially cautious and try to break off contact with that person. I really can't see myself ever becoming paranoid though.

    Authority: I feel it's important to respect authority. Actually, it's important to respect everyone, but especially authority figures since they make the rules, and I certainly don't want to get in trouble.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Joehobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silveresque View Post
    I noticed I seem to have a similar thought pattern to other sixes: "blah blah blah....but then again...or maybe....on the other hand...but I could be wrong..." :P

    On the other hand (), I really don't relate to the core issues of security, faith and skepticism, trust and distrust, authority, etc...I just don't really think about those things. Also, my attention doesn't go toward possible dangers. What dangers? But when it comes to doubt and needing affirmation and approval, that's where I really relate. Also, I think I tend to magnify problems rather than downplay them like a 9. So six is kind of a mixed bag for me....

    Anyways...I'm kinda bored right now so I'm gonna try something.

    Security: Uh...I don't really think about this unless it's a problem. When it comes to financial security...meh. As long as I have enough money to get by, I'm fine, and I don't really worry about money....Except that one time when I was living on campus and almost completely ran out of money. That made me worry quite a bit...When it comes to safety though, I tend to be very cautious. I'm not a risk taker.

    Faith/Skepticism: I'm an atheist. I wasn't raised into any religion, so I got to decide that for myself. I don't think I could ever believe in God without any evidence. That kind of faith just doesn't make sense to me. I tend to be skeptical of things in general, unless they come from a credible source.

    Trust/Distrust: I'm neither too trusting nor too suspicious. I think I'm pretty realistic on the issue of trust. Most people are trustworthy, but since you never know, it's always good to be cautious. If the person says or does something that makes me not trust them, I'll be especially cautious and try to break off contact with that person. I really can't see myself ever becoming paranoid though.

    Authority: I feel it's important to respect authority. Actually, it's important to respect everyone, but especially authority figures since they make the rules, and I certainly don't want to get in trouble.
    I LOL'ed.
    Have you looked much into Type 5? as savage idealist point out, that could be a possibility as well. 5w6.

    as you mentioned with security, how did you react/deal with the stress that time you almost ran out of money on campus? and how did you resolve it?
    Looked at points of growth and stress in your life can help with identifying. Still, I find it a little hard also.

    Do you ever relate to 9's inertia, and it's experience in feeling connected?

    EDIT: Is the Instinctual variant stacking in your signature correct?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joehobo View Post
    I LOL'ed.
    Have you looked much into Type 5? as savage idealist point out, that could be a possibility as well. 5w6.
    I mistyped as 5 for a long time. The introversion/isolation is the main part that really fits. I don't like intrusions on my time and space. But once I actually met 5's irl, I couldn't really relate to them. Compared to other 5's, I have little interest in learning random facts and understanding the world, and I'm also VERY unobservant. I came to realize that I'm actually more 9ish than 5ish.

    as you mentioned with security, how did you react/deal with the stress that time you almost ran out of money on campus? and how did you resolve it?
    Looked at points of growth and stress in your life can help with identifying. Still, I find it a little hard also.
    I freaked out, panicked, counted the money in my wallet, checked my account balance, felt like an idiot for not checking how much I had left before I went and spent some, complained about it to my friends because it was all I could think about at the time, tried to get my mom to send more money (and said "oops, I guess I must not be running low" when she told me she just sent money recently), and then tried to look online for ways to make money on campus (besides getting an actual job, which I didn't have time for). In the end I just had to wait a month for school to end, while trying not to spend any more money.

    Do you ever relate to 9's inertia, and it's experience in feeling connected?
    Inertia: yes, very much. It's hard for me to get started on things, but once I start I can usually keep going for a while. I have never felt particularly connected.

    EDIT: Is the Instinctual variant stacking in your signature correct?
    Yes.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by raine_lynn View Post
    Disagree, I am strongly Fi and I often have a hard time identifying my emotions, because they tend to be complex. I also have what might be considered a very fraught relationship with my emotions, as the understated ones are easily ignored in favor of other options/opportunities to use another function, especially now that I am starting to develop Si/Te. When I do have strong emotions, they're strong enough to even override my Fi values.
    Hm, perhaps then I was wrong in my initial interpretation of Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silveresque View Post
    I do sometimes feel like I'm more 6ish than 9ish...I'm nice but I don't have trouble saying 'no'. I'm not exactly calm and relaxed like nines are supposed to be, then again I'm disintegrating majorly. I'm also not as trusting as I thought....Then again, I've taken many enneagram tests and have never gotten 6 as the result--not even in the in the top two.
    Tests are almost all the time invalid. Or at least poor in construct; or alternatively the test taker isn't being honest with their answers.

    I think relying on surface behaviors like 'calm', 'relaxed', 'not trusting', etc. aren't really a good way to discover a type given that they don't go into the full motivations of the type.

    Perhpas you could explain why you think you're 9 and 6; give reasons for why each could fit, then maybe I could analyze your testimony and see if I can reach a tentative conclusion. Or if you've already done this in the past, just post a link to a previous thread.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    @Savage Idealist

    I'm not sure if it's even possible for me to be a 6, since 90% of the descriptions I don't relate to at all. The only one I do relate to is the Enneagram Institute Description.

    6
    THE LOYALIST
    Overview of Type Six

    Sixes are full of contradictions. They can be dependent on others, yet value their independence. They want to be trusted and to trust others, yet constantly test others to allay their own suspicions. They want the protection of authority, yet fear it. They are obedient yet, disobedient; fearful of aggression, yet sometimes highly aggressive themselves. They search for security, yet feel insecure. They are likable and endearing, yet can be mean and hateful. They are reassured by traditional values, yet may subvert those values. They want to escape punishment, yet may bring it on themselves. Sixes are full of contradictions because anxiety makes them ricochet from one psychological state to another. And in response to anxiety, Sixes look to structures, beliefs, allies, and authorities to put their anxiety to rest.

    Our system of education teaches us to put our faith in something else —a corporation, a marriage, a trade, a profession, a religion, politics, something, one might almost say anything, which offers us a set of rules we can obey and rewards us for obedience to them. It's safer to be a domestic animal than a wild one. (Michael Korda, Power, 254.)
    For Sixes, security comes from a rock-of-ages allegiance and an investment of themselves in something outside themselves which they believe will give them stability and safety. Sixes want to feel protected and secure by having something bigger and more powerful than they guiding them. IBM will do, but so will the Communist party, or the Republican party or the church. The doctrines Sixes believe are important to them, but not as important as having someone to trust and believe in.

    In the Thinking Center
    Sixes are the primary personality type in the Thinking Center. They are the most out of touch with the ability to make decisions and act on their own without reference to a trusted person, an institution, or a belief system. In a sense, Sixes have difficulty trusting their own minds, their own ability to know what to do without reference to ideas that are not their own. Thus, once Sixes have found some system of thought that seems reliable to them, they must constantly evaluate any new ideas that either contradict ro alter what they have understood to be true. They are looking for something—a set of guidelines, an authority—to supply them with a direction in life, to tell them what they can and cannot do, to give them more clarity, to put limits on them—in a word, for security. Of course, in one way or another, all nine personality types have some kind of relationship with authority figures and need some guidance and reassurance in life, but whether supporting authority, rebelling against it, or fearing it, Sixes seem to have the most issues in this area.

    Sixes are among the most puzzling of the nine personality types because they are reactive, fluctuating from one state to another—usually the virtual opposite—very quickly. Sixes can be baffling and frustrating because their emotional states and attitudes can be so contradictory: they can be engaging and funny, then cranky and negative; they can be decisive and self-assertive, then, almost in the next moment, indecisive and self-doubting. While they seek the approval of those who are important to them, they resist being in a position of inferiority. They may be obedient, and then openly disobedient, intentionally deviating from what the authority has told them to do. As a result, because Sixes are the most contradictory of the personality types, they are one of the most difficult to understand. They often remain so enigmatic, even to those closest to them, that the most others can say about them is that they are "easy to like but hard to get to know."

    The key to understanding Sixes is that they are ambivalent: the two distinct sides of their personalities oscillate between aggressive and dependent tendencies. They feel both strong and weak, dependent and independent, passive and aggressive. As with Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, it is difficult to predict the state Sixes will be in from moment to moment. At each Level, they display a personality substantially different from what has gone before and what will follow.

    To make matters more complicated, Sixes are not only ambivalent toward others, they are ambivalent toward themselves. They like themselves, and then disparage themselves, feeling inferior to others. They have confidence and then feel hopeless and defeated, as if they could not do anything without help from someone else. They feel weak-kneed and cowardly, then suddenly fill with rage and strike out at others. A double set of dependent and aggressive impulses operates in them, continuously interacting in various complex combinations because Sixes react ambivalently not only to the external authority, but to the internal authority, their superego.

    As much as possible, Sixes want to avoid being in this anxious, ambivalent state, so they work hard to build structures into their lives to give them stability and continuity. As long as they know what the "rules of the game" are, and have some sense that they are supported by others in their lives, they can be a consistent, steady presence and accomplish a great deal. But herein lies the problem. Sixes make their internal stability dependent on the stability of their external environment: in other words, as long as everything in their lives is running reasonably well, they feel secure and able to cope with things. As soon as problems or areas of uncertainty arise, however, they are quickly thrown into a storm of confusion and emotional reactions. (For this reason, many Sixes mistake themselves for Fours.) Their self-doubt and suspiciousness arise and Sixes are right back into their ambivalence and unsteadiness.

    The result then, is that Sixes can oscillate rapidly from one emotional state to another. As they shift first one way, then another, there seems to them to be little emotional stability or interpersonal security they can call their own. This is why it is so apt to identify Sixes as the personality type which has "the most trouble with doing"—not only because they look outside of themselves for direction, but because the actions they then take for themselves can be indecisive and circuitous.

    It is impossible to understand Sixes without understanding their oscillating nature. Maintaining their sense of self requires that both sides of their psyches interact with each other. Sixes cannot emphasize one side of themselves and ignore the other—for instance, they cannot become independent by suppressing their dependent side. For better or worse, they are an amalgam of both sides of themselves. When they are healthy, both sides work hand in hand with each other. However, if tension between their two sides increases, so does anxiety, and therein lies the source of many of their problems.
    I'd do one for 9 too but I don't have that much time before I have to go to work.

    Anyways, my main motivation is to avoid the unpleasant and seek a comfortable and easy, stress-free lifestyle, which is why I think I'm a 9. The word "security" doesn't really mean much to me--it's really not something I think about very much. I don't get suspicious of people without a good reason, but I'm not overly trusting either.

    On the other hand, I don't really identify with the calm and placid demeanor of the 9. I get stressed out easily and sometimes go into a panic mode where I totally freak out and complain about my problem (in a "talking to myself out loud" sort of way) and make it seem a lot worse than it really is, which makes me seem very much like a 6. Though sometimes I worry that people don't want to hear my complaints, so I'll suffer in silence instead. Another thing is that I don't think I'm as conflict-averse and harmony oriented as the type 9 descriptions seem to indicate.

    I worry about little things a lot more than I used to think. There's an example I read about a vending machine that's outside the building where 6 works, so the 6 would be in a dilemma, not wanting to go hungry but worrying about getting in trouble by leaving the building to get a snack. I can relate very much to that example. That's just the kind of thing I would get anxious about--worrying about getting in trouble by breaking a tiny rule like that. On the other hand, when my mom (ISFJ 6w5) comes to me and talks about something she's worried about, I'm often thinking "Why are you even worried about something like that? It makes no sense."

    When I started thinking about whether I might be a 6, I was thinking something along the lines of "If I'm a 6, it's going to turn my whole world upside-down. I thought I had it all figured out. I'd have to rethink everything, because it would mean I can't even tell the difference between 9 and 6." Which made me worry more, because that sounds to me like something a 6 would say...

    Anyways, I think this is what it would take for type 6 to even be possible for me:
    -The trust/suspicion thing would have to not be important for some sixes
    -It would have to be possible to be a six who doesn't ever get aggressive or mean
    -Perhaps "security" to me could mean having a pleasant and easy lifestyle--to seek security is to avoid stress, doubt, and uncertainty (which sounds more like peace of mind )
    -The levels of development (particularly the 6th level), as well as the wing descriptions, would have to be totally inaccurate for some sixes

    This isn't as thorough as I would like it to be, but I don't have time to make it perfect. I may add more later.

  7. #17
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    @Silveresque

    At this point, I still can't be entirely sure; it doesn't seem like your a six, but even as a nine you mentioned about not relating to certain traits; perhaps you're 9w8? Also, wanting to avoid the unpleasent and seek an easy stress-free lifestyle could be a possible indicator of 7.

    However I don't think I have enough information to really be of help, however I could find someone with greater knowledge than me, who would be willing to try typing you.

  8. #18
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @Silveresque

    You sound like a core 6 with balanced wings. Also, you don't really seem INFP to me, you may want to check out INTP.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Joehobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silveresque View Post
    I mistyped as 5 for a long time. The introversion/isolation is the main part that really fits. I don't like intrusions on my time and space. But once I actually met 5's irl, I couldn't really relate to them. Compared to other 5's, I have little interest in learning random facts and understanding the world, and I'm also VERY unobservant. I came to realize that I'm actually more 9ish than 5ish.
    I relate to the isolation, that comes naturally. Even more so during stress however. Is your isolation purely for your freedom and space, or is it related social troubles. Fights with close friends, stress in social situations and such?

    Are you unobservant because you simply where oblivious or is it only an interest to learn facts about what RELATES to you? That would be more of a 9 thing. 5's will keep going deeper into things while a 9 will try to find something which covers alot of topics rather than get too specific.

    I freaked out, panicked, counted the money in my wallet, checked my account balance, felt like an idiot for not checking how much I had left before I went and spent some, complained about it to my friends because it was all I could think about at the time, tried to get my mom to send more money (and said "oops, I guess I must not be running low" when she told me she just sent money recently), and then tried to look online for ways to make money on campus (besides getting an actual job, which I didn't have time for). In the end I just had to wait a month for school to end, while trying not to spend any more money.
    Sounds like a really passive reaction to the situation, especially to the extent of pretending like you had mistook your lack of money when you called your mother. It sounds like you where afraid of causing drama with your mother after her response. Knuckling down and making do with what you got, while complaining about it because its stuck on your mind.
    It sounds 9 to me. Don't you think?

    Inertia: yes, very much. It's hard for me to get started on things, but once I start I can usually keep going for a while. I have never felt particularly connected.
    Well inertia is something that is ment to be a 9 trait, I'm not sure how much other types in the enneagram relate to it but I've certainly seen this described quite a few times.
    Hm, I really can't say with confidence how other 9's experience being connected. But you've never felt connected with life so to speak? Like, really grounded. It's hard to articulate the feeling. It's like a very peaceful and calming effect.
    I don't think 9's really experience it with people, its more so within themselves that they feel it. This is usually with healthy 9's who become in touch with their inner selves. Or atleast start skimming the surface.

    I'd like for other type 9's to come weight in if they see this.

    Yes.
    Okay, well being SP dom it would explain your more introverted nature, and your type will be fixated by SP's core interests.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joehobo View Post
    I relate to the isolation, that comes naturally. Even more so during stress however. Is your isolation purely for your freedom and space, or is it related social troubles. Fights with close friends, stress in social situations and such?
    I don't get into fights, though people do stress me out by making demands on my time and space. When people talk to me I'll usually be friendly and engaging, but if they want to meet again some other time, I may make up some excuse as to why I can't. The last thing I want is to be forced to socialize at a certain time and place, when I'd rather be alone doing my own thing. I'm just happier alone.

    Are you unobservant because you simply where oblivious or is it only an interest to learn facts about what RELATES to you? That would be more of a 9 thing. 5's will keep going deeper into things while a 9 will try to find something which covers alot of topics rather than get too specific.
    Both. I don't notice things that are right in front of my face. Like that signpost I walked into. Or that one time when I went into work, sat down, and didn't even notice that all the tables (including the one I sat at) had be reorganized. This is also why I'm bad at driving. It's not that I don't try to pay attention, my brain just isn't set up for that level of focus, so I often miss things like road signs. I actually wonder if this could have to do with being extremely introverted.

    I like to learn about things that relate to me. Most things I have no interest in learning about. But the things I am interested in, I tend to dig really deep looking for specific information to answer my questions and satisfy my curiosity.

    Sounds like a really passive reaction to the situation, especially to the extent of pretending like you had mistook your lack of money when you called your mother. It sounds like you where afraid of causing drama with your mother after her response. Knuckling down and making do with what you got, while complaining about it because its stuck on your mind.
    It sounds 9 to me. Don't you think?
    Well in this case, I had good reason not to tell her. If I told her that I'd used up that money already, she'd ask me what I spent it on, which I really didn't want to say. Backing out of trying to get her send money was the most logical course of action.

    Well inertia is something that is ment to be a 9 trait, I'm not sure how much other types in the enneagram relate to it but I've certainly seen this described quite a few times.
    Hm, I really can't say with confidence how other 9's experience being connected. But you've never felt connected with life so to speak? Like, really grounded. It's hard to articulate the feeling. It's like a very peaceful and calming effect.
    I don't think 9's really experience it with people, its more so within themselves that they feel it. This is usually with healthy 9's who become in touch with their inner selves. Or atleast start skimming the surface.
    Nope, never felt connect to people, life, anything.

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