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  1. #101
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Well you could still as easily be ENFJ though. It's not limited to ESFJ. ENFJs just seem more idealist in their delusions.
    Nah my Ni is like a mewling deprived creature....starving in the corner. It's definitely a shadow function for me.

    Thinking about the future is nearly always negative in my mind.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #102
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Nah my Ni is like a mewling deprived creature....starving in the corner. It's definitely a shadow function for me.

    Thinking about the future is nearly always negative in my mind.
    Interesting, I feel the same way about the past and Si.

  3. #103
    Glycerine
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    @Aleda: how do you act when stressed out?

  4. #104
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Interesting, I feel the same way about the past and Si.
    Well I enjoy future thinking if it is a speculation of some fictional, 'probably-not-gunna-happen' nature. Actually I do occasionally get extremely energised by thinking about future advances and things I wish to achieve in the future, but they are nearly always fairly short term.

    Anything longer and I see divergent pathways, many fatalistic, although one or two are of a positive and interesting nature. On the subject of fatalistic, I am ever annoyed by my mothers overly conservationist mentality.

    She acts as if not maintaining certain standards or routines will result in a breakdown of the universe and the death of the human race by a giant indescribable monster with the face of Michael Barrymore....ok I added that last bit. But the other day she moaned and claimed we would start being fined by the recycling committee of the local council because I.......PUT.....ONE.....PLASTIC.....CONTAINER..... .IN THE BIN.....AS OPPOSED.....TO.....THE......RECYCLING.....BOX!!!

    However I realise this is somewhat of a projection of my own fatalistic thinking, which I may or may not have picked up from her.

    Personally ive been developing a view that young SJ types, especially the extraverted ones, are extremely subject to their environment, so much so that an SJ from one generation will have completely different standards and opinions when compared to those SJ's of a different generation.

    Of course this could easily be applied to ANY type at ANY time. However the difference is that whole ' Si = upholding traditions' idea that many people seem to have, one which ive tried to dispel for a while but instead have given up on, so instead let us pretend that I accept such a premise as true.

    If this is the case then the perceptions of Si will be filtered through the framework evaluations of Fe and Te into an upholding + conservation of whatever system or tradition or 'insert context here' they happen to have been brought up with and which happens to have left the biggest impression as is Si's main component.

    Thus my idea of conservation is different to that of my mum's, I have been brought up in an age of 'enlightenment', (har-de-har), an age where the values are far removed and different from those of my mothers age, therefore I am more likely to find myself upholding things which will not be considered 'SJ' because most people have trouble looking past the locked doors of what they have been told something is. For example I value individuality and creativity, because ironically that is what everyone is being raised and encouraged to value. I value difference as well as similarity, because that is what we are being raised to value...see the pattern?

    Ive never understood the rather shortsighted view of people such as David 'what a cunt' Keirsey who seems to put forth the idea, (indirectly), that being of an SJ temperament or type immediately sends your mind back into an alternate timeline of standards called '1950's America'.

    In any case to me; it is all about context.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  5. #105
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    @Aleda: how do you act when stressed out?
    When I'm stressed out, I'm pushy, emotional, and reclusive. I want everything to go my way and I say/do unreasonable things because of my feelings. I also hate people when I'm stressed out because I feel like everyone's worse than usual so I tend to not talk at all really. Nobody notices that it's because I'm sad so nobody actually cares for real. Which makes me ever more sad. But then I get over it and I'm not sure how. I realize I have to find a way to solve what's making me stressed out and I try to solve it. If I can't solve it, I end up even more stressed out so I try to find every possible way to solve it. If I do, I end up really happy. This cycle happens fairly often, sadly. D: Not looking for sympathy, only being honest.

  6. #106
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    @Aleda Extremely sorry for hijacking your thread.

    Back to your type!!!
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  7. #107
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    @Aleda Extremely sorry for hijacking your thread.

    Back to your type!!!
    You didn't do anything wrong, no need to apologize

  8. #108
    Glycerine
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    http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ESFJ.html

    What you say sounds about right. Sorry, I can't bold the part but paragraph 7 talks about this exact same thing. Also, the fictional speculation thing sounds a lot like tertiary Ne.

    Si to me always comes in the form of bittersweet nostalgia and regret. I don't like to meet up with people from my past.

  9. #109
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    When I'm stressed out, I'm pushy, emotional, and reclusive. I want everything to go my way and I say/do unreasonable things because of my feelings. I also hate people when I'm stressed out because I feel like everyone's worse than usual so I tend to not talk at all really. Nobody notices that it's because I'm sad so nobody actually cares for real. Which makes me ever more sad. But then I get over it and I'm not sure how. I realize I have to find a way to solve what's making me stressed out and I try to solve it. If I can't solve it, I end up even more stressed out so I try to find every possible way to solve it. If I do, I end up really happy. This cycle happens fairly often, sadly. D: Not looking for sympathy, only being honest.
    I think as a general rule of thumb, EXXJs become major control freaks under a lot of stress. They need to control the environment because the internal is chaotic so they need some sense of control. IXXJs are a bit like this but it seems more under wraps. EXXJs extrovert this need for control. The more controlling an EXXJ is, the more stressed they are. This is from my observations.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Of course you can go by that, btw. Like for example I have no idea what they'd do on functions tests, but I am strongly of the belief that David Lynch and Lana Del Rey are both ISFPs that are sometimes mistyped as INFJs because they have such heavy Ni for ISFPs and can use Fe manipulatively or understand what other people use Fe for (not unusual in older Fi types, I don't think) without being Fe themselves.

    What's interesting is that even Keirsey types Lynch as an ISFP, and I believe Lynch to be an ISFP more by function order, because his Se seems to come BEFORE his Ni, but his Ni is very very clear in his art work, and it's all led by his own Fi. And in a particularly Fi/Ni state, Lynch doesn't give a fuck if you "get it" or you don't, either you get him or you don't, and I don't think he minds at all if you're on the outside. Doesn't seem very Fe to me.

    Lana del Rey is the same, she puts Se aesthetics before her Ni, but her conceptualism that underlies her current album seems to entirely elude some people, and she seems genuinely to not care to explain herself, and is content to live in her own construction of an Se/Ni world kind of like Lynch does (which makes it so interesting to me that someone negatively compared her to a character in a Lynch film in the comments on an article about her)...but I believe she's Fi enough that she really does not give a fuck, she knows what she's doing, and that's why her little video collages are so personal to her, I think she goes by her Fi/Se to make those collages, and what it evokes in her, while still being aware enough of what other people use Fe for (as an Fi dom) to appeal to it both sarcastically and conceptually.

    Edit: Or to put it another way, in original Jungian terms, I think they both have Sensual Feeling and Speculative Thinking...I don't see the Intuitive Feeling and Concrete/Practical Thinking. If you look at it like that...really? I mean really, they have Concrete/Practical Thinking? And what are their works personified, if not first carried by Sensual Feeling?
    How do you interpret this statement typologically?

    'Lana Del Rey has revealed she found it "scary" when people decided they didn't like her following her rise to superstardom last year.'
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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