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  1. #51
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym View Post
    HAH! Well, hell, if the MBTI is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, it sure does a good job giving the illusion that personality coincidences have a rhyme and reason.

    Ten years? You two must have something pretty damn good going on. I can see how the variants in NF qualities between the two could aid mutual support, even if the Fi/Fe, Ni/Ne can cause some disputes of perception and perspective.
    We've had our disputes yes, and aren't done with them yet either, but they tend not to be heated, just... stubborn and a bit long winded. Conflict pattern:
    1. She gets upset by something I do/think and react as if I'm a complete moron for thinking it.
    2. I try to explain my point of view.
    3. She gives me the silent treatment.
    4a) I buckle and compromise, but don't forget or
    4b) I stubbornly claim I'm right and she cuts me off
    5. We take a break from the discussion and get some perspective.
    6. We become willing to see that the other person's point of view is valid given certain premises.
    7. We debrief what happened.
    8. I promise to try and change what can be changed, she apologizes for over reacting.

    And yes, we do have something great going on, and the conflicts are less frequent than they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym View Post
    With my INTP guy friend, we aren't involved in an actual relationship due to his lack of communication and emotional availability, but our Ne/Ni combination is practically unstoppable...when there's open communication, of course. Our (hugely expansive) world views are very similar, but he's even more pessimistic than I.

    With Jogi, we can (under healthy circumstances) bring out each other's lovey-dovey feelings to an embarrassing degree. Well, embarrassing for me, anyway. His effect on me does not bode well for my cooler, more objective, wannabe-INTJ approach to life. His Ne seems very similar to my close friend's (when he lets it out), but can be permeated with the scent of rose water. Is that the Fi?
    Probably. We do the same to each other. Except she's the one who fluffs up the cooler, more objective, wannabe-INTP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym View Post
    Mystery solved, at any rate. I still see his INFJ-ish qualities, but it could be my influence as well as his unhealthy rigidity to his own values. He's a quiet, dreamy, withheld teddy bear of a guy, at any rate.
    INFPs aren't only great chameleons, we tend to actually adopt and incorporate the way of thinking of our close ones. My Ni has skyrocketed these past ten years, and my Fe has improved as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by IdentityCrisis View Post
    Here's what's making me think he might be an INTP. You said school and academics came very easily to him. Typical INTP. You said he seemed a little aloof and detached. Typical INTP.
    Many INFPs report the same (me included), but I agree it could be INTP too.

    [QUOTE=IdentityCrisis;209045]
    Tough call. He could quite possibly be INFP. But don
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  2. #52

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    Ooh, ooh, he's not been posting so let's pick at him while he's too busy to notice.



    Unfortunately most of this is going to seem like anecdotal hearsay from a third party -- probably because it is -- but hopefully it will still prove helpful.

    Here's what's making me think he might be an INTP. You said school and academics came very easily to him. Typical INTP. You said he seemed a little aloof and detached. Typical INTP.
    School does come easy for him. If he lets it. As far as I know, he's never liked the cold, logical subjects like math and physics, and preferred (and done very well) in subjects dealing with biology, humanities and art.

    As for being aloof and detached, so is almost everyone I've met where he is -- especially his own family. It's only recently he's worked on letting himself out of his constructed shell. Unlike my INTP guy friend, who is naturally aloof and detached, Jogi seems forced into the role, as well as depersonalized from unreleased anxiety from his upbringing. It almost seems as if his neglect has caused him post traumatic stress because he's been very sensitive to rejection from day one. Naturally, anyone will put up walls around themselves if they perceive an onslaught of continuous rejection. So, his seems reactionary, rather than innate.

    I'd like to see what he has to say on that, though, since, although I know him very well, I'm still just a third party.

    2. “He buries emotions immediately, sometimes to have them explode when he's under stress.” When INTPs are under stress they are an emotional basket case and train wreck. There is a lot of crying going on and yelling and general upset.
    My INTP guy friend becomes even more detached, cold and impersonal under heavy stress, especially that which deals with emotions, but can also become very whiny when stressed from what he interprets as criticism. he never explodes. It's as if his emotions are simply drained, rather than bottled.
    Jogi under stress is a person of tightly wound emotions and partial to severe depersonalization as he attempts more and more to bury the whirlwind beneath the surface, ready to break free when they get the chance.

    But while neither of this is really indicative of the functions, if I take a closer look I can start to see what may be going on.

    My INTP steps up his Ti to a point where it's all that seems to exist. This creates a shell of logic and non-communication, protecting any Fe that may threaten to break through the barrier and, god forbid, make him feel things. This is SO OBVIOUS I can damn near experience it with all five senses.

    Jogi, by contrast, has tried to do just that, and failed. There seem to be two basic scenarios that can be created for him under stress.

    When it comes to severe stress and he can't access his Si manual for what to do, he depersonalizes. His Fi -- if that's what he has -- takes over and 'protects' him in his time of dire need, and he becomes a mess. He becomes very clingy, or very aloof, sometimes alternately.
    He can be greatly confused by what to do -- on the one hand, his Fi may be telling him to get through it, and on the other hand, his Te may be trying to rescue him by attempting to intellectualize the whole situation, just as he's learned to do most his life. His Te isn't the most developed function, so it fails, leaving him a panicked, confused, and even seemingly insane, wreck of emotions.

    Mild stress, or even severe stress he's learned to deal with, seems to have a different outcome. In these situations, his Fi seems to protect him by first deciding if it's worth his while to continue rather than 'switch off'. If it is, he can access his Si manual and apply his Te to create...a therapist. In this role, he assumes the cold, collected role of a therapist or gentle fatherly figure by reaching into past experience, pulling it forward, and applying it outwardly through his logical Te in a much more stable manner than when he depersonalizes from anxiety. In this role, he can become very stubborn or/and waffle dangerously.

    If personally criticized during that time, however, his Fi may switch back to 'defense' and shut him off again. This is, of course, his insecurity defense.

    These at first superficially resemble tactics my INTP uses because of the detachment it can create. There may be plenty of deeper similarities as well, but considering how similar INTP and INFP are, I can see why. Ti and Fi may be very different, but they can take on similar roles, best I can tell.

    I haven't read any official literature on MBTI, so feel free to correct me if you see I've got it wrong.

    5. “He was very bossy as a child -- especially as a young child -- before becoming more insecure later on in life.” I was very bossy as a child. I was always going into dangerous situations, helping people in need, I guess because I didn’t sense the danger there . . . a bit naive. Then, later in life, I kind of fell apart.
    I don't believe he's ever been a daredevil at any point. His bossy attitude had me wondering if he was INFJ, but my INTP's INFP psychologist mother is also extremely bossy (self-entitlement), but in an informing, rather than directing, manner. I'm naturally bossy with my "DO THIS" directing communication, but I've noticed Jogi has a particular way of being passive aggressive with his bossy (or, rather, stubborn) attitude. My INTP has a directing style, though he avoids directing by being passive and uncommunicative.

    I went through a tough period in my life where I suffered from a lot of social anxiety, depression, cyclical rambling, and low confidence, and it was kind of like a role reversal thing where emotions were in charge, rather than the thoughts (natural tendency). It was like the development of the weaker half of me, the feelings. Swimming in a pool of emotion and fantasy. I was very sensitive to criticism. The reason I mistyped myself as INFP was that I discovered MBTI when I was going through this period.

    He could be going through a phase like this. You seemed to sound like he wasn’t quite normal right now anyways, and was struggling for a while.
    I have watched my INTP go through this several times, especially when he was younger. Just last winter he went through his 'false INFP' mode again, and he started wondering if he actually was a feeler. I pointed out to him that he was still using his INTP traits, just differently.

    Funny thing is, Jogi seems to go through the opposite; he brings out his thinking because that's how he's learned to be. Almost everyone I met where he lives is cold, idolizing those with cool, aloof personalities, that can manage their emotions or have none at all. This is the way he grew up, with a mother who openly admitted she doesn't think she cares about anyone, and a father who totes that emotions are a very bad thing to display publicly.

    His emotions have been mostly denied since his birth. I've personally witnessed what happens when he lets his emotions out with his parents, and it isn't pretty. Actually, I took the brunt of it as well, once. His mother is either a very disordered IxFP or IxTP, his dad a severely depressed, avoidant INTP or INTJ.

    Despite the environment in which he was raised, he's surprisingly fit, intelligent, affectionate and creative. I would have to say it was his undying ideals that pulled him through. An INTP in that environment, with the Ti dominant, would have easily become very schizoid, I think.

    This page here has helped me to clarify some things about him, as well. I figure, if there's one way to truly type a person, it's look at their infancy and childhood, before they could be heavily influenced.

    I'm quoting the two pages on ITP and IFP kids, bolding and putting a + next to what pertains to him, and placing a - next to those that do not. For neutrals or unknowns, I'll put an o. Remember, this is just according to what I know, though I did discuss it with him already.

    ITP Kid:

    ITP Traits

    1. Logical and objective: -
    2. Tend to be adventurous, and enjoy taking physical risks: --
    3. They're original and value their uniqueness: +
    4. They're highly independent, and don't like being told what to do: o
    5. They have no interest in controlling or leading others, or telling them what to do: -
    6. Quiet and serious: +
    7. Honest and direct: -
    8. They're very observant: -
    9. Curious and interested in learning new things: + (however dampened by shame it was)
    10. Quick to learn new things: +
    11. Not overly affectionate or demonstrative of their love: -- (very, when allowed)
    12. They enjoy books: +
    13. They have a tendency to be loners, and may have one or two friends, rather than lots of acquaintances: + (well, he's an introvert)
    14. They're very easy-going and undemanding: - (tough call, but I'd have to say no)
    15. Often prefer to work alone rather than in groups: o
    16. They want to be good at things that interest them, and they apply their own standards rather than trying to impress anyone else: - (he loves to impress, if he feels confident he can)
    17. They get bored easily: --
    18. They value precision in communication, and are irritated by exaggerations and half-truths: +

    Potential Strengths

    1. When interested in something, they exhibit extreme competence and will master it completely: - (though to be fair, this may not be applicable for other reasons)
    2. They're flexible and can adapt well to new situations: +
    3. Laid-back and easy-going, they're usually easy to get along with: o (depends on who you are)
    4. Strong sense of fairness: +
    5. They're highly observant, and quickly incorporate new data into their thinking: -
    6. They're usually quite intelligent, and able to do well in higher education: +
    7. They're quite honest and truthful: -
    8. They take things seriously, and are seldom frivolous or flighty: +
    9. They have open and accepting natures, although they're not always interested in people : +

    Potential Weaknesses

    1. They don't have a good sense of time or schedules, and may frequently run late or miss deadlines: +
    2. They will strongly resist being told what to do, which may present a discipline problem: -
    3. They do not like to make decisions, and prefer to leave things open until the last possible moment: +
    4. They will resist doing anything that they don't feel like doing: -/o
    5. They're often unaware of how others are feeling, or how their own behavior affects others: + (again, not necessarily for 'healthy' reasons)
    6. They keep their own feelings closely guarded and well-hidden from others, sometimes even from themselves: +++
    7. When stressed out or upset, they may react with extreme emotions that are inappropriate or exaggerated for the situation: -
    8. Highly objective and detached, they may have difficulty forming close bonds with people: -
    9. With their risk-taking natures, they might get into some trouble: ---
    IFP Kid:

    1. Very idealistic: +++
    2. Take things seriously and personally: +++
    3. Quiet and gentle: +++ (his mother has used the word 'gentle' to describe him as a kid on several occasions)
    4. Extremely sensitive: ++++++
    5. Shy and reserved with strangers: ++++++
    6. Enjoy reading: +++
    7. Service-oriented, they want to please others: ++
    8. They love animals and small babies: +++ (still continues; I'm 'child free' and he wants a baby, my INTP doesn't like babies at all)
    9. Likely to be messy and unstructured: +++
    10. They need lots of love and affection : +++++

    Potential Strengths

    1. Deeply caring and empathic: +++ (this has caused him problems)
    2. They're usually very kind and sweet: +++
    3. Laidback and easygoing, they're not likely to create trouble: +
    4. They adapt well to new situations, and welcome change: +
    5. They're usually relaxed, peaceful and unrushed: ++
    6. Usually extremely creative and artistic: ++++++
    7. They are original and genuine: ++ (his originality has yet to blossom, but exists, hindered by lack of confidence)
    8. Take things seriously, and aren't likely to be frivolous: +
    9. They need harmony, and can be good peacemakers: ++++
    10. They're faithful and devoted to people and causes: ++++
    11. They're often quite faithful to their religion: + (though he doesn't have one, I see that he would be very strongly)

    Potential Weaknesses

    1. They're extremely sensitive and become hurt very easily: ++++++
    2. They cannot use logic well at a young age: +
    3. They don't really have a concept of time or schedules, so they are frequently late: +
    4. May be reckless and irresponsible with money: o
    5. Tendency to let negative thoughts build up inside them until it becomes an unhealthy situation: ++++++++NARGJFGEDNG
    6. They cannot see things objectively - they see everything from their own point of view: +++++ (stubbornly)
    7. If they feel rejected or unloved, they may become very depressed and moody: +++++++ ('needy')
    8. They are procrastinators and have trouble completing projects: +++++ (don't get me started)
    9. They are so internally focused that they are sometimes completely unaware of how anyone else is feeling: +++++
    10. They have difficulty expressing their deepest feelings, and are sometimes unaware of these feelings themselves: +++++
    11. Although they care deeply about others, they are self-absorbed and so may be seen as selfish: +++++
    12. They cannot take any kind of criticism, and will become defensive and emotional when criticised: +++++
    13. They don't like to make decisions, and will put it off as long as possible: ++
    14. They often view decisions with absolute finality, and don't realize that they can change their mind later: +++++
    15. They naturally move slowly doing things, which makes them sometimes appear lazy: +++++++++!!!!
    16. They have trouble asserting themselves: ++++++++++OFF THE CHARTS
    Ok, so I went a bit overboard. But I did have to laugh out loud at how much of the IFP fit. Even though the descriptions were very simple, maybe they will shed some more light on the distinction in general.

    We've had our disputes yes, and aren't done with them yet either, but they tend not to be heated, just... stubborn and a bit long winded. Conflict pattern:
    1. She gets upset by something I do/think and react as if I'm a complete moron for thinking it.
    2. I try to explain my point of view.
    3. She gives me the silent treatment.
    4a) I buckle and compromise, but don't forget or
    4b) I stubbornly claim I'm right and she cuts me off
    5. We take a break from the discussion and get some perspective.
    6. We become willing to see that the other person's point of view is valid given certain premises.
    7. We debrief what happened.
    8. I promise to try and change what can be changed, she apologizes for over reacting.
    Intensify that a few times and you definitely have our version of it.

  3. #53
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    I think it's really sweet how much time you put into that, even if Firefox did mess it up. and thanks for all the input, everyone else! I'm really surprised.

    I'd have to say I don't totally agree about what I do when I react to 'mild stress or severe stress I've learned to deal with'. I think in those cases, instead of letting my Fi run wild with hurt and avoidance and obsessiveness, I actually bring it under control (with effort) with my Ne and start to see the situation for what it really is, rather than the twisted and fearful reality my Fi creates. In that way I can hold my feelings together enough that they can be used appropriately to deal with the situation. The whole contraption is a little unstable (because I have to keep reign on the Fi so it doesn't get out of control), but I feel like that is what I do, and what a healthy INFP also does.

    I do agree that when I can't handle stress and I'm not trusting my intuition that I start to use my inferior functions, generally in tandem with my panicking Fi, which generally leads to a lot of trouble. It's almost like my Fi becomes a huge snowball of anxiety rolling down a mountain and Si and Te are just clasped on for the ride.

    I want to post more about this but I don't have time right at the moment, and I need to think (feel?) it out a bit more. Thanks again for all the replies.
    "I'm just not meeting these fantasy ideals of yours which are mine." -Adrian Madden

  4. #54

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    It's almost like my Fi becomes a huge snowball of anxiety rolling down a mountain and Si and Te are just clasped on for the ride.
    I just want to point this out because he talks like this all the time, in a dreamy, airy sort of way. Everything is best explained by and to him in metaphors, and the more poetic and lovey, I've discovered, the better. My INTP doesn't do that and finds it annoying when Jogi does it (well, not always).

    I actually bring it under control (with effort) with my Ne and start to see the situation for what it really is, rather than the twisted and fearful reality my Fi creates.
    Ok, I was trying to fit the Ne in there somewhere but couldn't, since, although you experience it, it's generally invisible to me. Why the hell is intuition so hard to spot a lot of the time?

  5. #55
    will make your day Carebear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym View Post
    I haven't read any official literature on MBTI, so feel free to correct me if you see I've got it wrong.
    You haven't gotten it wrong. Impressive if you haven't read much about MBTI. Blasted INFJs and their mystical ability to see it all without really trying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym View Post
    Intensify that a few times and you definitely have our version of it.
    Thought so. I don't envy you. It's draining enough at times without any intensification. But you learn A LOT from it, so it's normally well worth it (even if I often don't feel it when in the middle of the process. Did I mention disharmony and unresolved issues is the cryptonite of INFPs?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jogi View Post
    I think it's really sweet how much time you put into that, even if Firefox did mess it up. and thanks for all the input, everyone else! I'm really surprised.

    I'd have to say I don't totally agree about what I do when I react to 'mild stress or severe stress I've learned to deal with'. I think in those cases, instead of letting my Fi run wild with hurt and avoidance and obsessiveness, I actually bring it under control (with effort) with my Ne and start to see the situation for what it really is, rather than the twisted and fearful reality my Fi creates. In that way I can hold my feelings together enough that they can be used appropriately to deal with the situation. The whole contraption is a little unstable (because I have to keep reign on the Fi so it doesn't get out of control), but I feel like that is what I do, and what a healthy INFP also does.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jogi View Post
    I do agree that when I can't handle stress and I'm not trusting my intuition that I start to use my inferior functions, generally in tandem with my panicking Fi, which generally leads to a lot of trouble. It's almost like my Fi becomes a huge snowball of anxiety rolling down a mountain and Si and Te are just clasped on for the ride.
    I HATE it when that happens. Thankfully it's not often because I employ the rickety construction you described above where Ne keeps it all standing, but if Fi breaks free... HATE it! Others won't see the difference I think, but inside an avalanche starts and there's nothing to do before it stops in the bottom of the valley and Ne can start digging out survivors.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym View Post
    I just want to point this out because he talks like this all the time, in a dreamy, airy sort of way. Everything is best explained by and to him in metaphors, and the more poetic and lovey, I've discovered, the better. My INTP doesn't do that and finds it annoying when Jogi does it (well, not always).
    Surest sign he's INFP. INFPs use methaphors and similes like... a lot. (I realized I was about to use a simile, but stopped myself. ) Sometimes they're wonderful and self explanatory, other times I find myself talking of flying camels having problems landing on pyramids. Though few people get the latter type, they're still normally to the point and explain a concept well in my eyes.
    I have arms for a fucking reaosn, so come hold me. Then we'll fuvk! Whoooooh! - GZA

  6. #56
    Member Torai's Avatar
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    I think he's an INFJ, maybe an INFP...

    I (On the first post.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym
    He's an introvert.
    N (He likes art and daydreams)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym
    He used to look at art constantly, forming a loose library of his favourites, as inspiration, on his computer
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym
    He's DROWNING IN FANTASY, always daydreaming and going off on tangents of imagination which he rarely shares
    F (Romantic)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym
    He's often painfully romantic, gushing over romantic ideals and situations
    J (Rigid and formerly bossy)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym
    He's apparently always been very quiet, rigid, and aloof, even as a young child.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotherym
    He was very bossy as a child -- especially as a young child -- before becoming more insecure later on in life

    But INFP's can be rigid in relationships, too.

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