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  1. #11
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I love how you said that you don't use Fe, because you used Fe in the very first sentence. You sound like an IxFJ to me, and it would make sense if you used Ti because that would be your tertiary function. You also seem to be quite the negative, nervous nancy so I'm assuming you are a type 6 as well.
    Im actually somewhat an optimist. Im just being honest here so people can get an accurate read, but this in no way indicative of my general outlook on life, im actually quite happy most of the time. However we all have contradictions and personalised issues. To me it is inaccurate and dishonest to leave out such information.

    As for Fe, why couldn't that be Fi being pressurised into a Fe mindset by the majority?

    but I also feel that if I did this I would lose some part of me that is me so I dont always go along with it.
    I agree with Ti as it is Ti im using to break down the components of my inconsistancies, but it is not the deciding factor, as I said I can identify with both Ni and Ti but not Fe.

    A lot of people dont want to be what they are, whereas im more than willing to be but I have uncertainties based in whether or not what I understand is accurate.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Joehobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    given how clumsy typology is in genital. Good luck though.
    That's what she said

  3. #13
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @AffirmitiveAnxiety


    As for Fe, why couldn't that be Fi being pressurised into a Fe mindset by the majority?
    If you are being pressured into something by the majority, then that's Fe at it's core. The fact that you didn't want to seem disrespectful, and that you wanted to be courteous at the beginning of the thread seemed SO Fe to me.

  4. #14
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    @AffirmitiveAnxiety




    If you are being pressured into something by the majority, then that's Fe at it's core. The fact that you didn't want to seem disrespectful, and that you wanted to be courteous at the beginning of the thread seemed SO Fe to me.
    Well if you recall what I actually wrote was that I feel like I should go along with social convention but I actually dont. As a child I felt no such obligation whatsoever and this is what brought me into conflict with many adults growing up. The pressurisation I was talking about is not the shared intangible one of Fe, the one that instinctively reads into implication to try and understand what is the accepted method of social conduct in the current environment, im actually talking about literal pressurisation.

    Being told off for my social indecencies and being belated and beaten over the head metaphorically with what are the 'right' things to say and do. To me this never made sense, I didn't intend to offend so why was there offence?

    If anything id say im a classic example of someone who was convinced by others he was the problem and so tried to change himself after failing to change others. If I were subject to Fe, at least unhealthily, would I not be the one pressurising others?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post

    Im usually not a part of any group im with but I often feel like I should be. I feel obligated to join in and laugh or say the right thing at the right time in terms of social convention, but I also feel that if I did this I would lose some part of me that is me so I dont always go along with it.

    As a child I was quite nervous and prone to lashing out verbally and physically at those around me, especially if they invaded my personal space. People have noted, especially my parents, that they could not read me in terms of body language or facial expression, my dad in particular expressed a bit of a worry that he could never tell what I was going to do in a situation and it made him nervous.

    Ironic considering that his temper and outbursts make me feel the same way. Im not a conflictual person and sometimes this is to a fault. Oddly these days it is as if ive learnt to be more relaxed and opened up, because im far more visually expressive than I used to be.

    However I always feel an obligation to help my closest friends and family if they are in trouble, it has been a great source of internal conflict for me that on the one hand is this ideal but on the other is the reality that I am selfish and sometimes I dont like getting dragged into other people's drama. Unfortunately I rarely express this.

    Im not sure if I see things in a systemic or logical way, or not. I know that gender bias and roles make us believe we possess traits that often we dont. I have especially noticed many unhealthy male personalities who are adamant that they are using rational, sensible logic, as opposed to the reality of using sensible, rational values. Of course being unhealthy these are more often expressed as irrational and selfish values.

    But then again we all possess thinking and feeling so an unhealthy thinker might confuse their flawed logic as being the most sensible choice when in reality it is out of touch with those around him/her. Ok im going off topic.

    Im at my happiest when im barely succeeding, I enjoy doing small out of the way jobs because I cannot visualise any future in which I do well in a professional career. This is mainly because I am, for the most part, opposed to competitiveness in life. The competitiveness of the job market, intelligence and life in general seems abhorrent to me.

    Not to mention as long as im doing something I dont have my parents worrying about my future and adding to my own worries. Most of my hobbies are both group and personal based. I enjoy painting models and playing warhammer as ive mentioned far too often on here and I frequently visit two different clubs.

    To me this is like a social top up, ive spent 5 days in the house, but now I can go out and socialise for just long enough for me and then retreat back home to recharge my batteries. However if you were to meet me in such an environment you would find quite a loud and expressive personality who seems to delight in the company of others.

    However I cant escape my need for alone time, I feel both energised by people and by spending time with my thoughts. When younger I would spend months at time by myself without anyone around me and I felt great, but then again I feel great when around others, although at first I am extremely shy in a new environment. I do sometimes miss social cues as well, which is odd because secretly I define myself via others, I have my own individual thoughts but what I really desire is group affirmation and validation, this might be because ive never had it.

    I also seem to be a little argumentative without really realising it, sometimes I look at something online or go over what someone has said in my mind and it doesn't fit, there is some flaw or error on their part that I believe ive spotted. However I often get this wrong or jump the gun, im not crusader of rights though, it is merely that I feel strongly about incorrectness or what I perceive as shortsightedness when it comes to other's opinions on things or how they put them forwards.

    Of course for every time I do argue there are 500 times im not. I usually overlook things and pretend to ignore them so as to preserve some harmony when im around others. However I also get quite annoyed when someone is completely ignoring what are the rigid and realistic facts of a situation, there are some facts you cannot argue against and which have nothing to do with reliability, yet some people argue against them anyhow which I cannot understand. Often it isn't a case of maybe's or might be's it truely just IS. In that sense I suppose you could say I dislike it when people look for grey reasoning where there is none.

    Although a bit of a grey reasoner myself, I can usually judge when it is best to admit the subtleties of a situation or discussion and when it is best to adhere to the facts.

    I also get really annoyed when I fail or do not succeed to my own level of standards, I also become frustrated and angry when I dont see an immediate solution to something, whether tangible or not.

    I suppose im just a contradiction, many of my morals are personal and subjective, this might seem dangerous to some but im extremely objective on the important ones, the ones which concern life and death.
    I always seem to be swinging back and forth across spectrums, never settling, which is odd because this is what I do naturally.

    That cant be right can it? I suppose my main goal in life is to live and die, not in a simplistic sense, but I dont seem to have the same ties others do, friends and family come and go but I exist.

    I want to hold onto them, but I dont know how. Essentially I want to be free of worries, guilts and prejudices, I want to scream 'FUCK IT' and just enjoy my life in my own way and hopefully bring the ones I love along for the ride. But I dont possess the charisma or charm needed for this and I doubt I ever will.
    I'll have to go with ENFJ. Although you speak of recharging your batteries, in an introvert sense, the ENFJ also has this trait. I'm not saying anything about cognitive functions here. But you did write "I define myself via others, I have my own individual thoughts but what I really desire is group affirmation and validation, this might be because ive never had it."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #16
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I'll have to go with ENFJ. Although you speak of recharging your batteries, in an introvert sense, the ENFJ also has this trait. I'm not saying anything about cognitive functions here. But you did write "I define myself via others, I have my own individual thoughts but what I really desire is group affirmation and validation, this might be because ive never had it."
    I changed my mind. INFJ is a closer match to the description. Upon closer inspection, you seem more introverted than extroverted. Everything else clearly points to NF. "Although a bit of a grey reasoner myself, I can usually judge when it is best to admit the subtleties of a situation or discussion and when it is best to adhere to the facts" points toward J.

    Notice that there is no "function analysis" in that, and I don't really find it very useful for typing others. But INFJ has Fe auxiliary, and that seems to be the case here. It's just hard to define exactly what "Fe-aux" means. And without that definition, it's useless for typing someone.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #17
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I changed my mind. INFJ is a closer match to the description. Upon closer inspection, you seem more introverted than extroverted. Everything else clearly points to NF. "Although a bit of a grey reasoner myself, I can usually judge when it is best to admit the subtleties of a situation or discussion and when it is best to adhere to the facts" points toward J.

    Notice that there is no "function analysis" in that, and I don't really find it very useful for typing others. But INFJ has Fe auxiliary, and that seems to be the case here. It's just hard to define exactly what "Fe-aux" means. And without that definition, it's useless for typing someone.
    This is true and the source of my annoyance. Although I am enjoying a nice read through of Jung's psycological types, his description of the functions is fascinating.

    Particularly his definition on the extroverted rational types as he calls them, Te and Fe. In some ways they are removed from what people on such forums as these commonly accept them as.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    This is true and the source of my annoyance. Although I am enjoying a nice read through of Jung's psycological types, his description of the functions is fascinating.
    I can sympathize with that through my fascination with Kant. I just don't hold the same feelings about Jung. But it may be possible to build a database on Fe-aux based on observing those who report having it. In your case, I sense a kind of push-pull with regard to the social realm. It's almost as if Fe is trying to assert itself, but it keeps holding back due to (I'm going out on a limb here) fear of being inauthentic.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #19
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I can sympathize with that through my fascination with Kant. I just don't hold the same feelings about Jung. But it may be possible to build a database on Fe-aux based on observing those who report having it. In your case, I sense a kind of push-pull with regard to the social realm. It's almost as if Fe is trying to assert itself, but it keeps holding back due to (I'm going out on a limb here) fear of being inauthentic.
    I think that's actually a very good evaluation. Interestingly enough this fear of being inauthentic has been with me for a long time, so like you said ive probably been suppressing it for an equally long amount of time. Oddly when I first got my copy of Psychological Types, Jung himself mentions in the section on extroverted rational types that if Fe gives itself over to the social conventions of the environment without due consideration it just becomes a pale ghost of falsified social pleasantries, that isn't how he puts it of course but that is the gist of it.

    So as long as I dont become to obsessed by it and take it too far it could be of benefit to me.

    Incidentally I had a look at Kant, actually very interesting, I might start researching him more.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I think that's actually a very good evaluation. Interestingly enough this fear of being inauthentic has been with me for a long time, so like you said ive probably been suppressing it for an equally long amount of time. Oddly when I first got my copy of Psychological Types, Jung himself mentions in the section on extroverted rational types that if Fe gives itself over to the social conventions of the environment without due consideration it just becomes a pale ghost of falsified social pleasantries, that isn't how he puts it of course but that is the gist of it.

    So as long as I dont become to obsessed by it and take it too far it could be of benefit to me.
    According to a Jung bio, he had the same kind of psychological relationship with the social realm. He desired to interact with it and conform to its rules but instead he held himself back and criticized it from afar. Based on that sort of thing I decided some time ago that he must be an INFJ.

    But there's got to be a middle ground between losing one's identity for the sake of "playing the game" socially and being an individual yet an oddball or outcast one.

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Incidentally I had a look at Kant, actually very interesting, I might start researching him more.
    Kant's theory of Space and Time anticipated the geometries of the non-Euclideans of the early 19th-century. It's not that they looked to Kant for clues, only that it's synthetic methodology conforms to Kant's own rules by which theories are constructed. In other words, if Euclidean geometry is not analytical, as was (at least implicitly) believed for 200 centuries, if it is indeed synthetic as is formal Space, then Euclid's geometry can be replaced with many paradigms each possessing equal veracity.

    You might read online the idea that Kant was trying to firmly establish Euclidean geometry, but this is false. Of course you can read all kinds of garbage online, such as the theory that atoms are square-shaped. That one has about the same truth as the idea that Kant was a staunch Euclidean. It just so happens that Euclid's postulates had not yet been questioned, there were no theories to rival it. Kant's meta-theoretical perspective doesn't give any truth about the thing-in-itself, and so if all we have in perception is appearance then, as Euclid's postulates are based out of appearances, it may be the case that the thing-in-itself is formed in another kind of geometry altogether. Kant only assumed that the geometry of the thing-in-itself was also Euclidean.

    Nowadays they will tell you that the geometry of appearance is not even Euclidean. In Euclidean terms, parallel lines must never meet, but in appearances they obviously do seem to meet, like two railroad tracks converging at an infinitely distant point. As I recall, the geometry of appearance is actually projective, and that of things-in-themselves is even stranger, according to Einstein.

    But at least we have established that Kant was correct, in that the appearance must be kept theoretically separate from the thing-in-itself.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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