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  1. #41
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    lol Yah, I should have just said I saw it as more complex than that and left the words generalise and stereotype in the gutter where they belong. Sorry about that.

    ps: The usage of the term 'personal values' was a bit of a red herring. I just thought it would accompany the apology as a decent reason.
    (So it was a lie.)

    I was thinking about this whole issue, and then I realized that there can be a valid place for stereotyping. When the facts of someone's personality are lacking, stereotyping is commonly used to fill the information gap.

    For a non-typology example, in recent years there was a discussion somewhere about how Jesus must have really looked. There is no description in the Bible and utterly no other information exists on this. So the "facts" were put together on the basis of Jewish facial stereotypes. Here is the result:



    (From http://wildmanwalkersblog.blogspot.c...ly-looked.html)

    Yet I never heard of anybody crying about the obvious stereotyping going into this picture.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #42
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    (So it was a lie.)

    I was thinking about this whole issue, and then I realized that there can be a valid place for stereotyping. When the facts of someone's personality are lacking, stereotyping is commonly used to fill the information gap.

    For a non-typology example, in recent years there was a discussion somewhere about how Jesus must have really looked. There is no description in the Bible and utterly no other information exists on this. So the "facts" were put together on the basis of Jewish facial stereotypes. Here is the result:



    (From http://wildmanwalkersblog.blogspot.c...ly-looked.html)

    Yet I never heard of anybody crying about the obvious stereotyping going into this picture.
    Yep twas a lie. A convenient lie though.

    Anyhow interesting point about the validity of stereotyping it makes a lot of sense.

    In regards to that picture, though, I actually dont care. But then again ive never ever taken part in some mass ideal about what constitutes right or wrong. It doesn't help that I dont know ANY jewish people in real life to cross-reference this with. Should I care? What do actual jewish people think? Then I might make an evaluation of whether or not I care based upon if they care, but in the end I probably wouldn't anyhow, afterall, as I said before; it isn't my job to tell others what opinions to have.

    Of course this implies that there is some collective grouping of jewish people who will definitely hold the name opinion, which of course isn't true, they may hold them from community induced social norms but essentially different individuals equal different views.

    But of course this is the difference between attitudes towards positive and negative or even neutral stereotyping. The majority of people only care about championing the negatives, they can be quite happy with the positives and indifferent on the neutral's. Although some people take issue with any of them in general.

    As a rule im just merely bothered by convenient bias, although it is as present within me as others. You might call that projection but I at least aim to curtail it when I judge it to be necessary. At the same time though I also dont want to sit on a high horse and consider myself better than anyone else because of it, it doesn't mean that. It's more of a philisophy or even ideology with which to live my life, where occasionally I fall into the trap of trying to advise others to do the same.

    When the facts of someone's personality are lacking, stereotyping is commonly used to fill the information gap.
    This at least makes sense, although be wary of falling into the mistake of using it as justification. As the cliche goes, there is a time and a place, unfortunately that is so subjective as to be useless as a rule since everyone might disagree on where the rule should be applied...and if it is even a rule at all in the world of social convention.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Yep twas a lie. A convenient lie though.

    Anyhow interesting point about the validity of stereotyping it makes a lot of sense.

    In regards to that picture, though, I actually dont care. But then again ive never ever taken part in some mass ideal about what constitutes right or wrong. It doesn't help that I dont know ANY jewish people in real life to cross-reference this with. Should I care? What do actual jewish people think? Then I might make an evaluation of whether or not I care based upon if they care, but in the end I probably wouldn't anyhow, afterall, as I said before; it isn't my job to tell others what opinions to have.

    Of course this implies that there is some collective grouping of jewish people who will definitely hold the name opinion, which of course isn't true, they may hold them from community induced social norms but essentially different individuals equal different views.

    But of course this is the difference between attitudes towards positive and negative or even neutral stereotyping. The majority of people only care about championing the negatives, they can be quite happy with the positives and indifferent on the neutral's. Although some people take issue with any of them in general.

    As a rule im just merely bothered by convenient bias, although it is as present within me as others. You might call that projection but I at least aim to curtail it when I judge it to be necessary. At the same time though I also dont want to sit on a high horse and consider myself better than anyone else because of it, it doesn't mean that. It's more of a philisophy or even ideology with which to live my life, where occasionally I fall into the trap of trying to advise others to do the same.



    This at least makes sense, although be wary of falling into the mistake of using it as justification.
    Often it seems to be the case that others confuse it with justification, when in fact I am just living in accordance with the quote in my sig:

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #44
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Often it seems to be the case that others confuse it with justification, when in fact I am just living in accordance with the quote in my sig:

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
    That's a probably a feeling thing then, reading intention where there is none.

    Good quote though, I read that when I first replied to you and got a general idea of what your mindset might be.

    Applicable speculation....

  5. #45
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    That's a probably a feeling thing then, reading intention where there is none.
    It goes back to a lesson we all should learn when first getting into typology. And that is, others may think about things differently than ourselves. But what I see instead, among the practitioners here who should know better by now, is the assumption that everybody operates from the same basic motives as oneself. So the thinking goes something like, "If I were to say something like that, it would mean X." Everything gets processed through our own personal lens or experiences.

    Typology has the power to free us all from these misunderstandings, the misattribution of motives. And this is a very real and practical thing, not a game to play on the internet, or typing people we work with for the fun of it.

    For example, back in 2006, about 6 years ago today, I was getting over a relationship with a woman who engaged in jealousy, extreme possessiveness, projection and displacement. While I was running around with the new woman (my future wife), I found myself reacting to her as if she was the previous one. But I didn't want the same relationship experience again and I knew from typological practice that this one was different in many if not most ways. I had to give her the benefit of the doubt.

    So one day while we were driving home she was having a reaction to something that reminded me of my ex, and I wanted to habitually react to it. But instead, I thought typologically, and then I realized that she was not projecting or displacing - in fact, she was introjecting. It just happened to resemble these other reactions, because in my mind that's what I was so used to seeing.

    I'll tell you, that understanding was very, very helpful in mentally/emotionally converting over to a new relationship, especially after being habituated to 13 years of the same old routine.

    Based on these experiences, I think I'm really smart with typology and so I hate coming here and being treated like a dumbshit by those who don't practice what they preach, and who just treat this like a game, or who don't understand the practical side of stereotyping and just engage in knee-jerk reactionary bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Good quote though, I read that when I first replied to you and got a general idea of what your mindset might be.

    Applicable speculation....
    As long as there is no omniscience, everything gets the benefit of the doubt. It's just very difficult to overcome the habits of routine thinking and reacting.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #46
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    It goes back to a lesson we all should learn when first getting into typology. And that is, others may think about things differently than ourselves. But what I see instead, among the practitioners here who should know better by now, is the assumption that everybody operates from the same basic motives as oneself. So the thinking goes something like, "If I were to say something like that, it would mean X." Everything gets processed through our own personal lens or experiences.

    Typology has the power to free us all from these misunderstandings, the misattribution of motives. And this is a very real and practical thing, not a game to play on the internet, or typing people we work with for the fun of it.

    For example, back in 2006, about 6 years ago today, I was getting over a relationship with a woman who engaged in jealousy, extreme possessiveness, projection and displacement. While I was running around with the new woman (my future wife), I found myself reacting to her as if she was the previous one. But I didn't want the same relationship experience again and I knew from typological practice that this one was different in many if not most ways. I had to give her the benefit of the doubt.

    So one day while we were driving home she was having a reaction to something that reminded me of my ex, and I wanted to habitually react to it. But instead, I thought typologically, and then I realized that she was not projecting or displacing - in fact, she was introjecting. It just happened to resemble these other reactions, because in my mind that's what I was so used to seeing.

    I'll tell you, that understanding was very, very helpful in mentally/emotionally converting over to a new relationship, especially after being habituated to 13 years of the same old routine.

    Based on these experiences, I think I'm really smart with typology and so I hate coming here and being treated like a dumbshit by those who don't practice what they preach, and who just treat this like a game, or who don't understand the practical side of stereotyping and just engage in knee-jerk reactionary bullshit.



    As long as there is no omniscience, everything gets the benefit of the doubt. It's just very difficult to overcome the habits of routine thinking and reacting.
    Ah so you hold exactly the same view as I do then. Nice .

    The whole point of what ive been saying is exactly what you have said here, overcoming the routine habits of thinking and reacting, questioning things and more importantly; yourself. My views on the usage of typology is exactly the same as well, for the benefit of others and yourself to further improve upon and recognise flaws externally and internally, but to do so without prejudice or misuse.

    Being able to stop yourself from the autonomy of your own reactions is the core of my personal ideology. The way in which I interact with the world and others is actually not my natural mode of thinking or reacting, it is one that has been cultivated over years of self-habituation. Most likely this isn't healthy, but im not saying I do not see things through the vector of my own perceptions, more so that I am more likely to stop myself from acting upon them prematurely.

    One of the greatest lessons in life is that not everyone sees things the same way as you do and that we are not all variations of some singular template.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Ah so you hold exactly the same view as I do then. Nice .

    The whole point of what ive been saying is exactly what you have said here, overcoming the routine habits of thinking and reacting, questioning things and more importantly; yourself. My views on the usage of typology is exactly the same as well, for the benefit of others and yourself to further improve upon and recognise flaws externally and internally, but to do so without prejudice or misuse.

    Being able to stop yourself from the autonomy of your own reactions is the core of my personal ideology. The way in which I interact with the world and others is actually not my natural mode of thinking or reacting, it is one that has been cultivated over years of self-habituation. Most likely this isn't healthy, but im not saying I do not see things through the vector of my own perceptions, more so that I am more likely to stop myself from acting upon them prematurely.

    One of the greatest lessons in life is that not everyone sees things the same way as you do and that we are not all variations of some singular template.
    There are certain challenges to thinking outside the box. Nobody else around me does this. I am surrounded by people who use negative stereotypes, and then I come to this supposedly enlightened forum and am ridiculed for not living in reality. That is typism used against me, as INTPs are often bookworms who don't get out much. That's why I have the other sig quote, "over-generalizing, socially retarded fool," a typism which was directed toward me personally as an INTP who allegedly has stereotypical social problems and such (a nerd type). (That quote is also a link to the over-generalizing, socially-retarded comment where it was made.)

    As a result, it is difficult to avoid joining the crowd in making the same non-thinking, simplistic reactions. It's difficult to not want to fight back on their terms. I certainly am capable of it, and in fact because of my typologically-gathered insights I am even MORE capable of it. But I have found creative thinking to be more rewarding.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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