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INTJ vs ISTJ

Taberculosis

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
23
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Is it possible to not have a second letter? Like... have them balanced?

On some tests I have a really low S score and some I have a really low N score. It seems that I bounce between them.

Or could I just be well rounded?
 

sriv

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
418
MBTI Type
JIxT
I am in the same situation. I think I was born INTJ, but my parents hammered an S into me. Now I am InTJ.
I seem to go along the lines of Ni-Te-Fi-Se (INTJ) more than Si-Te-Fi-Ne (ISTJ). This is a really good description. Describes in-depth the difference between the legalist ISTJ and the analyst INTJ. In my case, there is not really a balance. I phase in between them both.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
The problem with the idea of 'balance' between the 'second letter' for an INTJ is that that 'second letter' stands for your leading function, Ni for INTJs and Si for ISTJs. Your attitude sounds like that of someone who hasn't researched MBTI too much.

I'll give you some help. Ni (introverted intuition) and Si (introverted sensing) are very different but do have significant similarities, making an INTJ seem like an ISTJ or vice versa.

Here are a couple links to help you in your research:
Introverted Sensation
Introverted Intuition

These are by no means comprehensive.

To give you the short of it, Si sees a pattern of 'what is' and internalizes it to orient one's self. Ni is trickier, but I'm pretty sure that it's like Si but instead of using the pattern to orient one's self, it manipulates the patterns and does not necessarily trust them because they can so easily be manipulative.
 

Kristiana

New member
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
326
MBTI Type
INTJ
Ni is a lot more abstract and possibilities-oriented. Ni comes up with theories, internal models, and so on.

Si is more experience-oriented and concrete.

I think it is possible for a person to be borderline between S and N (although I'm certainly not, LOL, I'm about as high an N as they come). This borderline S/N would probably result in a strange mix of sometimes using Ni as dominant and sometimes using Si, completely changing the functional order. The difference is, one functional order is natural to the person and the other is not. The natural order would be one's 'true' type.
 

Taberculosis

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
23
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Thanks guys. .....I'm pretty sure I am an ISTJ.

I hope you don't hate me for sticking around the INTJforum even though I've switched.

I kinda like it over there. :)




lol SRIV, I even posted on that thread on INTJ forum.
I must be retarded.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Oh, Tabby, I'm sure you're fine.

Out of curiosity, though, how did you come to the decision?
 

Ezra

Luctor et emergo
Joined
Dec 12, 2007
Messages
534
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Balanced Si and Ni dominance? Come off it. You prefer one over the other. Read about Si and Ni, then come to a decision. (N.B. If you can't come to a decision, you're probably an INTJ).
 

Taberculosis

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Apr 27, 2008
Messages
23
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Oh, Tabby, I'm sure you're fine.

Out of curiosity, though, how did you come to the decision?


-I think I lack the creativity that comes with being an INTJ.
-I am a major realist.
-I cannot stand nonconformists. I mean.... seriously, what are YOU going to do to change the way things are?
-I enjoy repetition
-Organizing things by alphabet, color, size, theme etc...
-I Learn my mastering facts. Philosophy kinda pisses me off because I don't feel like anything is being accomplished.
-I can assimilate into any environment so it appears that I am extroverted,but I'm definitely not.
-And I'm good at pretty much anything I do or try. ...Even if I don't really understand it.



-However, I am more future orientated (like and INTJ) as opposed to the "here and now" like an ISTJ.

-And I don't believe in God. I despise religious institutions. ....Which goes against the ISTJ-ness "valuing tradition and religion" idea. But, at the same time, I value facts and details, so religion just does not seem very practical or reliable to me.... So maybe that is ISTJ-ish?
 

Kristiana

New member
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
326
MBTI Type
INTJ
I don't think a person's religious beliefs have much, if anything, to do with MBTI. The reasons WHY they adopt those beliefs (or lack thereof), though, tend to correlate somewhat. So yah, your reasons for not being religious seem more S than N to me.

And, from an INTJ, you don't sound INTJ at all :D
 

Kristiana

New member
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Dec 28, 2007
Messages
326
MBTI Type
INTJ
Balanced Si and Ni dominance? Come off it. You prefer one over the other. Read about Si and Ni, then come to a decision. (N.B. If you can't come to a decision, you're probably an INTJ).

I agree that a person can't be both, but don't you think that a pressuring environment can force an INTJ kid to attempt to act ISTJ (or vice versa), hence the confusion?
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I agree that a person can't be both, but don't you think that a pressuring environment can force an INTJ kid to attempt to act ISTJ (or vice versa), hence the confusion?

The pressuring environment can force someone to go against type, and I think this is the root of problems some adults experience, where they were forced to be something they weren't... but the personality will only conform to a certain degree. (e.g., a "natural" ISTJ looks different, I think, in the nuances, than an INTJ forced to act ISTJ).
 

Carebear

will make your day
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,449
MBTI Type
INFP
I agree that a person can't be both, but don't you think that a pressuring environment can force an INTJ kid to attempt to act ISTJ (or vice versa), hence the confusion?

Yes. And in the process you learn to use the function so much that in the end you start preferring both about equally, switching depending on the task at hand. There's absolutely no reason why a person can't be about equally strong in Ni and Si. A bit like a right handed person could be trained from early childhood to use both hands and in the end could be about equally proficient in both and only have a slight preference for the right hand.
 

Carebear

will make your day
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,449
MBTI Type
INFP
The pressuring environment can force someone to go against type, and I think this is the root of problems some adults experience, where they were forced to be something they weren't... but the personality will only conform to a certain degree. (e.g., a "natural" ISTJ looks different, I think, in the nuances, than an INTJ forced to act ISTJ).

Yes, that's true, and no, the personality can't change radically. But minor changes are common, so someone close to the border could easily become ambi from the conforming. Thinking of functions not only as preferences but also as skills helps with understanding for me.
 

Taberculosis

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Apr 27, 2008
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23
MBTI Type
ISTJ
I agree that a person can't be both, but don't you think that a pressuring environment can force an INTJ kid to attempt to act ISTJ (or vice versa), hence the confusion?

Well, I guess I am ISTJ, but I have developed my introverted intuition. Possibly...
As a child, I would have been described as INTJ because I never listened to anyone and did things my own way.
But. I had my own routine for everything and did not want it messed up. I woke up at the same time and I was ready for bed at the same time each night. No one had to tell me to go to bed. I was like a little clock.

Isn't the purpose of these categories to better understand yourself and find ways to improve? Just because one side is preferred or dominant does not mean the other side can't be just awesome. Or.... not?
 

zarc

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
2,629
MBTI Type
Zzzz
^ You don't seem like an INTJ to me either. (Hee, I read your Hate list and immediately was reminded of my ISTJ dad z.z). Reading your list here, again, reminds me of ISTJs in general.

You enjoy repetition, hmm. I wouldn't think INTJs of liking too much repetition at all-- reminds me of Si. Doing the tried, tested and true and enjoying it.

Taberculosis said:
As a child, I would have been described as INTJ because I never listened to anyone and did things my own way.

I would think INTJ children can be more complacent and would listen, so long as people (or the adults instructing them) are being reasonable and will explain why they're having them do certain tasks or are in their presence bothering them when they're busy and would rather be alone... Out of curiousity, would you say you were called a daydreamer as a kid or consider yourself as being one? I'd guess no. (?)

I also think ISTJs are better at Te, or at least initially, than INTJs. Also, INTJs won't bother if they don't feel like explaining themselves, especially if not given enough time to formulate their thoughts-- or they just don't think the people are worth it or will understand them, anyway. I'd think ISTJs would be quicker than them to voice their thoughts and would lay down the law.-especially when shutting people down, when they deserve it. INTJs won't care to bother, unless directly affected. It's not worth it to them.

-However, I am more future orientated (like and INTJ) as opposed to the "here and now" like an ISTJ.

Everyone can be future oriented, at times.

You can develop yourself/CPs and appear to be a less 'stereotypical' version of an ISTJ, for sure, and evolve into a more balanced person. Who says you can't strengthen Ni or Fi? etc Have you looked into learning CPs?
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
Everyone can be future oriented, at times.

Additionally, intuition doesn't strictly adhere to our preconception of being future oriented.

More what it does, is compare and contrast several sensations, and finds a pattern, which can be followed toward one or more possible ends or results, before any of them take place, which is the 'future orientation' given when talking about an intuitor.

It might be an idea of what will happen soon, but it might just as easily be an idea about what already is happening, but what hasn't been mentioned directly.

Making plans for later that day or even later in your life is not a function of intuition. That's Thinking at work.

Intuition usually 'does away' with those sensations once the intuition is spun and stores and uses the pattern to devise the possibilities.



You might think about the future without necessarily intuiting.
 

sriv

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Apr 19, 2008
Messages
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MBTI Type
JIxT
My behavior is very much like an ISTJ. I am a calm, composed, practical, grounded individual. But my thought processes are much like an INTJ, cuz I have horrible Si memory and I have streaks of Ni all the time. I just keep my Ni practical.
I think it is society and family. ISTJ is the perfect choice for adaptation because they are conforming and disciplined. It is not necessary as uncomfortable to go from N to S as it is to go from I to E or T to F. That might be a factor.
 

Mort Belfry

Rats off to ya!
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
1,238
MBTI Type
INTP
-And I don't believe in God. I despise religious institutions. ....Which goes against the ISTJ-ness "valuing tradition and religion" idea. But, at the same time, I value facts and details, so religion just does not seem very practical or reliable to me.... So maybe that is ISTJ-ish?

My ISTJ mother is between agnosticism and atheism and she has very low Ni.

She does have well defined Ne though.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
4,517
MBTI Type
ENTP
My behavior is very much like an ISTJ. I am a calm, composed, practical, grounded individual.
That's the Te. It's why ISTJ and INTJ might look the same. If they're especially TJ, or especially introverted or both, then they'll likely appear to be the same without paying close attention, as they show up long enough to Te for a little, and go back to their corner and quietly watch. This is not to say they're identical.

But my thought processes are much like an INTJ, cuz I have horrible Si memory and I have streaks of Ni all the time. I just keep my Ni practical.
Another function of the Thinking. Especially Te. Highly pragmatic. Of all the intuitions you make, you may only consciously notice, and be able to voice the ones that appeal to Te -- those ones that can be easily applied.
 

sriv

New member
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Apr 19, 2008
Messages
418
MBTI Type
JIxT
That's the Te. It's why ISTJ and INTJ might look the same. If they're especially TJ, or especially introverted or both, then they'll likely appear to be the same, as they show up long enough to Te for a little, and go back to their corner and quietly watch. Another function of the Thinking. Especially Te. Highly pragmatic. Of all the intuitions you make, you may only consciously notice, and be able to voice the ones that appeal to Te -- those ones that can be easily applied.

I know that INTJs let their Ni rambuctuously bounce around their heads, but I do not have any of that. I think my Te took a front seat. INTJs are quite creative, me, not so much, but I do have an INTJs fierce opinionatedness and mental individualism.
 
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