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Thread: Type 6 or 9?

  1. #61
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    You're just showing sources which confirms my point. Haz says that he can be Sx even if he's not intense. That's bullshit.

    <<<This is a true Sx/Sp.
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    Secret Sex Freak Hazashin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    You're just showing sources which confirms my point. Haz says that he can be Sx even if he's not intense. That's bullshit.

    <<<This is a true Sx/Sp.
    I didn't say I wasn't intense, just not aggressive, bold, risk-taking, or confident. I'm inwardly intense. Listen, man, most of the time, I could hardly give a shit about Sp matters. The reason why I am reluctant to act is because I am unsure of myself. I am most attuned to how I will look to others, which is why I am so self-conscious about it. Sx is my dominant instinct.
    MBTI: INFP
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    Tritype: 6-9-2
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/Sp
    Temperament: Pure Supine
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  3. #63
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    You seem like 9, straight up to me. You get disgusted about hurting anyone's feelings? Probably not. Even phobic sixes are pretty strongly opinionated, and hold their value systems and/or chosen groups above general harmony, though they love and seek security.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Richardsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    I'm inwardly intense..
    Sp/Sx are inwardly intense too.

    Actually Sx leans more to "on fire" stuff.
    Instincts aren't thoughts or emotions. Is your auto-pilot, so... instinct.
    The whole conection stuff is true, but is confusing sometimes. Heart types are likely to seek strong-connections (specially 2s and 4s) even if they are Sp first...

    This is a true Sx/Sp
    Above all he is a true sexy man, i dont know if i should envy or love him.


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  5. #65
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    What is your drive?

    Fear-Courage?
    Sloth-Action?

    It is one or the other other, no either/or.

    Quote Originally Posted by Type 6
    Passion: Fear [Anxiety]*
    Fear is the feeling that arises when we feel unsupported and without guidance. When we feel unsupported, we feel unable to move into the next moment with assurance and confidence. We believe that something terrible that happened in the past might happen again in the future. In a sense, fear is always based on some kind of imagined future—we are not afraid of something that concluded yesterday because we know the outcome. And this reveals a second point: fear is also a response to not knowing what is going to happen. Whenever we are unsure of our fate, we can become fearful to the degree that we also feel unsupported.

    The truth is, however, that we are never certain of what will happen next. "Not knowing" is a fundamental condition of our individual existence. We can plan and try to predict and prepare, as type Six does, but in the end, a single twist of fate can undo all of our defenses against the future.

    While "not knowing" is fundamental, feeling unsupported and without guidance is not, and this is really the basis of the Six's fear. Lack of contact with inner guidance leaves Sixes anxious and unsure of how to make decisions, avoid danger, and move forward in life. Further, much of type Six's fears are not based on reality, but on things that might happen. This constant background of anxiety drives Sixes to organize and systematize their environment as much as possible so that it will be predictable and thus less threatening, but this activity does not ultimately reduce their fear.

    Virtue: Courage
    The virtue of courage might also be called fearlessness because it truly is the absence of fear. This is absolutely different than defying fear or behaving aggressively to toughen oneself up (counterphobia). True courage arises in the heart when a person is present and deeply grounded in the moment. When we are abiding in our true nature, tremendous support and inner strength naturally arise every time they are needed. Courage draws upon the Essential qualities of Strength and Will, such that we feel like we are held up by a tremendous, supportive solidity. We experience directly the enormous capacities of our Essential nature such that we can totally accept not-knowing the outcome of things. Here and now, we are more than fine—we are solid, real, vital, and imbedded in the unfolding Will of the Divine.

    Fixation: Cowardice [Worrying]*
    We have found the term "Cowardice" for the fixation of type Six one of the less satisfying ones, because cowardice can be seen as a simple caving in to fear. But if we examine the way that the activity of the ego mind supports fear and anxiety, then the broader meaning of this term is revealed.

    Basically, cowardice is a failure of confidence in our ability to know, to receive inner guidance. In Enneagram terms, it is the loss of the Holy Idea of Faith. Thus, we might also call the fixation self-doubt.

    Sixes (and the Six in us) respond to this lack by trying to hedge their bets against life: they want to create stability and "social security." Unfortunately, cowardice also causes Sixes tend to undermine whatever security they create by second-guessing themselves and doubting their own decisions. "Where can I get support? Where will I find security? What is a safe bet in life? Is that person really my friend? I know they said they are, but will they be there to help me out when the chips are down? Is this job going to be there in six months? If I invest in this, will I lose all my money?"

    Holy Idea: Holy Faith

    Real faith has nothing to do with beliefs, or with trying to convince oneself that a certain belief is true. The faith we are talking about here is a recognition of the actual support of presence and Being that is available right now. It is the recognition that Essence, our true nature is real and cannot be lost. Essence really exists. Reality it is supporting us and we are part of it. We do not have to make support happen because it is already here. From this viewpoint, we see that it does not matter whether we believe in it or not any more than it matters whether or not we believe in the sky. Essence is a felt, experienced reality.

    Thus, Holy Faith gives us an unshakable confidence in the inherent goodness of life and of the universe. Even when things seem to be going wrong to the ego's perspective, in presence, we recognize that things are we are supported and that our true nature cannot be harmed. Holy Faith gives us the inner freedom to respond spontaneously to whatever emerges in the moment because we are not bound by beliefs, doubts, and learned procedures. We are guided in each moment to optimal action.
    Quote Originally Posted by Type 9
    Passion: Sloth [Disengagement]*
    In this context, the passion of sloth results from the loss of the virtue of Action. It is a resistance to being deeply affected by or engaged with the world, to being present and putting out the energy to be fully here, fully feeling and responding. While sloth may manifest as laziness and lack of energy, the deeper meaning refers to the Nine's habit of giving little attention to their own development. Nines often feel that many things are "too much trouble," so they procrastinate or ignore obligations as long as possible. Ultimately, sloth refers to the wish to "go to sleep" to one's life, to not arise as an independent person, taking one's rightful place in the scheme of things. Some Nines are fond of saying that they "go with the flow," but in truth, they are hoping that everything will flow around them and let them be.

    In the part of the psyche represented by type Nine, there is a tendency to say "Not now, I will get to that problem later. It's going to be upsetting. I'll just let it go. Ignore it." Nines want to stay in an internal zone where they feel safe, peaceful, comfortable, and will not be disturbed by anything. They want to avoid anything that will upset their inner tranquillity. It takes a lot of energy to resist being affected by aspects of reality, and this often causes us to lack energy for self-awareness or self-remembering.

    Ironically, many Nines are actually interested in spiritual work because on some level they remember the blissful feeling of unity that lies beyond ego consciousness. The problem is that sloth causes them to dream of that unity, to fantasize about it, or to live by some kind of philosophy related to a belief in it. But all of this is quite different from doing the inner work necessary to make the unity a real, embodied experience in the world. Sloth keeps us visualizing white light, contemplating high-minded philosophies and yogas, and going through the paces of our spiritual practices, but definitely not contacting the deficiency at the core of our egos—the emptiness from which our true nature can re-emerge into full manifestation.

    Virtue: Action
    The virtue of Action does not refer to doing things physically; rather it is an embrace of the dynamism of reality. To live in presence is to be affected and transformed constantly. Everything in reality grows and changes, and our soul is no different. Self-realization is not some cushy, pleasant stasis that we retire to—a significant part of it entails surrendering our familiar identity to the dynamism of true nature. Somehow, we all believe that we can improve and become transformed without changing the comfortable and familiar parts of ourselves. But a person who is present and awake sees that the self is being reshaped and transformed every moment.

    As a result, the virtue of Action empowers us to participate dynamically in our lives. We are moved to help others achieve peace, harmony, and an awareness of the dynamic unity of existence. Nines who have awakened to the virtue of Action play a powerful, active role in creating a healing and harmonious environment for themselves and others. Simply put, this virtue gives us the capacity to live fully and dynamically in each moment of our lives.

    Fixation: Indolence [Daydreaming]*

    The loss of the Holy Idea of Holy Love results in the ego-fixation of indolence. It is a style of attention that causes us to avoid deep contact with our interiority. We might be aware of others or of the environment, but we are not aware of what is happening in our presence. Even if we are able to be present to some degree, indolence causes us to be present without content. Of course, as we become more entranced by this fixation, we also lose any meaningful awareness of others too.

    Because of the loss of Holy Love, the self feels lost and centerless, but indolence causes us to cover over the wound of that loss by withdraw from it into the "safety" of our imaginations. We may deal with it by adopting comforting philosophies, or by focusing on and idealizing others. We learn to disengage our attention from the core of ourselves so we will not feel the suffering caused by our loss of contact with Essential love, the very core of ourselves.

    Thus, Nines become the masters of dissociation, of mentally "checking out" when situations threaten to uncover the primal loss of contact with Holy Love. In their imaginations they create an imitation of the real feelings of wholeness and benevolence that arise in presence and real contact with experience. This inner feeling of peace is then defended against the actual dynamic processes of reality—thus, indolence serves to perpetuate sloth. When Nines retreat into their inner reality, they deal with other peoples' demands, either by agreeing to them or deflecting them. They want to minimize the chances of getting into conflicts or disagreements with others because this would upset their inner peace. On the surface, Nines seem quite easy going, agreeable, and adaptable. They are friendly and do not seem to mind going along with the wishes of others, but on a deeper level, Nines do not want to be made to change, or to be other than who and what they are already comfortable with.

    Holy Idea: Holy Love

    Holy Love is the recognition that all is one and that the oneness is ultimately benevolent and supportive. From this perspective we truly experience the well-known spiritual assertion that everything actually is made from Divine Love. When we truly know this, we relax our ego activity and trust Being to support us. It is almost unfathomable to the ego mind that not only could we be loved by the Divine, but that we are actually made of that love. The knowledge lets us move through our lives with deep compassion, nobility, and unshakable inner peace.

    We can also see how Holy Love relates to the virtue of Action, because love itself has a dynamic affect on our souls. What transforms our lives more powerfully than love? What transforms our sense of ourselves more profoundly? Love is not static: it is living, dynamic force that melts down all barriers and boundaries, constantly working to restore our awareness to its pristine unity with Truth. In Holy Love, our sense of separateness dissolves, and we know ourselves as arising from the brilliant light of Divine Love that creates and sustains the universe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You seem like 9, straight up to me. You get disgusted about hurting anyone's feelings? Probably not. Even phobic sixes are pretty strongly opinionated, and hold their value systems and/or chosen groups above general harmony, though they love and seek security.
    And which is why I say that @Hazashin is a 6?

  6. #66
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin View Post
    I didn't say I wasn't intense, just not aggressive, bold, risk-taking, or confident. I'm inwardly intense. Listen, man, most of the time, I could hardly give a shit about Sp matters. The reason why I am reluctant to act is because I am unsure of myself. I am most attuned to how I will look to others, which is why I am so self-conscious about it. Sx is my dominant instinct.
    Sx people are visibly intense, and are always competitive. If you are externally not intense but just intense internally, that means that Sx is not your dominant trait, and that your first insitnct in life is to seek confort: you are Sp/Sx.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Sx people are visibly intense, and are always competitive. If you are externally not intense but just intense internally, that means that Sx is not your dominant trait, and that your first insitnct in life is to seek confort: you are Sp/Sx.
    Then can you describe how an Sx Five or Sx Nine externally is?
    The very nature of type Nine is to avoid all kinds of conflict and competition. And type Five is far too withdrawn to show intensity to others, except a select few.
    Your argument cannot hold water until you explain this contradiction.

    I maintain that what you're describing is the sexual instinct of assertive types: Threes, Sevens and Eights.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nales View Post
    Then can you describe how an Sx Five or Sx Nine externally is?
    The very nature of type Nine is to avoid all kinds of conflict and competition. And type Five is far too withdrawn to show intensity to others, except a select few.
    Your argument cannot hold water until you explain this contradiction.

    I maintain that what you're describing is the sexual instinct of assertive types: Threes, Sevens and Eights.
    http://ocean-moonshine.net/e14285736...position=80:80

    Type Four Sexual/Self-pres

    This is a very volatile type. They are driven to form connections but have very high demands of their partners. When their powerful fantasies don’t match reality, they become very restless. They take the fire and passion of the sexual instinct and turn it inward. This can cause both brooding and fiery outbursts. Dramatic mood swings are very likely with this type. This subtype of Four could be considered the most classic Four, because of the way they seem to embody the archetype of the tortured artist, although not all Fours of this subtype are artists. Stereotype aside, this subtype does tend to bring their emotions into focus more readily then the other subtypes of Four. What is under the surface with the self-pres/sexual is now bubbling to the surface. This subtype can resemble type Seven because of their drama, passion for experience and tendency to suffer from frustration when life seems dull. Like type Seven, they can seem to throw themselves into experience.

    When healthy, this subtype learns to balance the need for passion with the less obvious need for groundedness which can come from solid and focused relationships with others and with their creative outlets.

    Type Five Sexual/Self-pres

    This subtype has a lot in common the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking. They experience many of the same internal conflicts surrounding relationships, the need for independence and emotional expression. The sexual/self-pres subtype differs however in being more intense, more counterphobic. They entertain more dark nihilistic ideas, ideas that most others don’t want to consider.

    With this subtype, a lot of energy revolves around the issue of boundaries. Sexual/self-pres Fives tend to forge strong connections quickly and deeply, but if they feel betrayed, begin to feel overwhelmed, or if they feel that the connection doesn’t serve their true needs, can seem to cut the connection precipitously and “go cold.” They have high standards for significant others. They must feel that they can share their emotions with a significant other without being judged. This is their private world that they share. Relationships can be difficult, because individuals of this subtype will still want their own space and alone time, while at other times will want intense connection. Because the social instinct is least developed, this subtype is not very concerned with how others perceive them (except their intimates). This subtype is deceptive in that they may not seem to be especially intense - until they are engaged in a conversation they find interesting. Then the intensity and emotion become apparent. The internal struggle for this subtype is similar to that of the self-pres/sexual, but more energized and volatile, and getting to know this subtype means getting to know that.

    When unhealthy, the energy of the sexual instinct can combine with the dominant type Five fixation to create a very impulsive Eight-like anger. The strength of their convictions can then come out quite forcefully.


    Type Nine Sexual/Self-pres

    The energy of the sexual instinct is at odds with the dominant type Nine energy and makes for a conflicted subtype. These Nines can appear to have a stronger connection to Three, for this reason. The assertive fiery energy engages in a constant push-pull with the calm peace-seeking energy of the Nine. This subtype can have an intense relationship with their environment. They are often drawn to solo sports or to an active engagement with nature that involves some risk and exertion. These Nines are drawn to peak experiences. They might enjoy outdoor solo sports or engaging in nature by way of hiking, rock climbing etc.

    With the social instinct last in the stacking, there can be an on/off quality when it comes to relating and these Nines are often somewhat moodier than the other subtypes. As with the self-pres/sexual, this subtype might not engage socially with the same smoothness as other subtypes of Nine. They seem to go towards others in a staccato fashion - they connect in bursts, then withdraw.

    When it comes to intimate relationships, this subtype can be needy. The merging of the Nine combines with the intensity of the sexual instinct to create a subtype that will always be in danger of losing themselves in a relationship. Their boundaries for themselves and their partner can become blurred which can lead to conflicts. This subtype might have a hard time judging clearly the degree to which they have merged.


    Sx/sp fours, fives, nines won't be as externally intense as sx/sp 3,7,8, but they are still going to be more outwardly intense than the non-sx dom 459 types.

    @Hazashin, what about so/sx if you don't identify with sp? You talk about friends a lot. And self-consciousness is kind of more of a social variant thing for introverts, I'm pretty sure.

  9. #69
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    @Hazashin -

    As a 6 (which took me forever to figure out) it is clear to me I am not a 9 mainly because, even though I can be a fantastic procrastinator, I feel a huge, huge gravitation towards complexity and problems. I feel like I "zoom in" on problems by either looking at them in very close detail and/or assessing them long before the issues come to light - moving forward in time. My SO calls it "creating" problems - I call it preparation for problems. Especially with being a Ne dom, I specialize in seeing minor blips in patterns and assessing what those inconsistencies mean and what may need to be done about them.

    9s, on the other hand, are more likely to set aside situations that I immediately identify as problems. My little brother is a 9w8 and he's very "oh well" about things I see as major issues. He just doesn't worry about it unless circumstances force him to. He'd rather go biking with his friends than mentally focus on a problem - and he's very good at just blocking whatever out. He uses the mental energy I spend contemplating solutions to work on other projects - whereas for me, problems can totally subsume me, and I struggle to not let minor issues, especially emotional ones, completely take over my headspace.

    As for the discussion on instincts, I think that all Sx types tend to have an ebbing and flowing intensity. I would agree that assertive types tend to have the always-intense, always-competitive energy. Sx 3s are enrapturing, Sx 7s captivating, Sx 8s magnetic... but then Sx 1 is probably more focused and keeps a tighter rein on the Sx energy, Sx 2 more soft and alluring, Sx 4 more intrapersonal and self-absorbed, Sx 5 switching between close bonding and independence, Sx 6 torn between the need to meld and the need to protect oneself, Sx 9 much like Sx 5 in terms of bouts of connecting and disconnecting... I think for most of us the needs of the enneatype and the second instinct will often quiet the tendency of the sexual instinct to be so openly passionate.

    And I think it is important to figure out your number-type without looking too much at your instinctual variants. I once saw it explained that your instinct is really just which "realm" you spend the most thought on - personal needs (Sp), how you fit into the big picture (So), or attraction and energy (Sx). That will not change your enneatype, only cause it to manifest in slightly different ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazashin
    I am more easy-going, low-key, and accepting than most 6s, and I seem to have an agreeable quality to me. I also dislike upsetting people (though not because I fear conflict but because I just care about my friends and people too much for them to get hurt) and I am often compliant.
    Sp 6s are often described as having a "personal warmth" to them that is a manifestation of a subconscious desire to not offend or threaten others. Personally I am fairly agreeable and dislike upsetting others as well, for essentially the same reason.

    - Often dependent and inefficient with original thought, but VERY opinionated (an awful paradox of mine) and not group-oriented
    - Often obsessive, but sometimes flighty and scatter-brained
    - Passionate with things I care about, but unenthusiastic about most things
    - Very loyal, especially with close friends and friends
    - Lazy and undutiful with things I find unnecessary, but loyal and responsible with things I find necessary.
    - Sometimes uncreative and unoriginal, but inquisitive and curious
    - Almost completely deliberating -- too much so to the point of almost paralyzed indecisiveness
    - Temperamental and emotional, but reserved most of time
    - Very sensitive, but not defensive more often than not
    - Mostly low-key, but periodically energetic
    - Focused a lot on others, but sometimes too detached to have motivation to help them or simply cannot figure out ways to help them, whatever the situation may be
    - Cooperative and compliant more often than not, but have my own values that I strongly stick to and do not conform
    - Extremely guilty-conscious, but not necessarily 'responsible-feeling'
    - Liking and loving of people, but not drawn to them for the most part
    - Not very disciplined, but considerably determined and perseverant
    - Persistent, but mostly passive due to wanting to take the best course of action as to avoid negative consequences
    - Usually non-proactive, but not necessarily reactive
    - Pacifistic and non-confrontational, but argumentative
    - Detailed, meticulous, and perfectionistic of own work, but very accepting and understanding of others to the point of feeling like everybody should be pardoned for their faults
    - Wishing well of others, but often self-pitying
    - Very competitive, but always feeling bad for winning
    - Rule-abiding, but usually not rule-agreeing
    - Treating everyone as equals, but regularly feeling inferior
    - Unsociable, but friendly and warm with everyone who engages (though most of the time I'm very awkward) (also correlates with the Supine temperament)
    - Sometimes very longing (but most of the time not), but feel guilty of it and do not ask others to get me whatever it is (if it is something that can be given) more often than not
    - Considerably cautious and tentative, but sometimes unaware
    - Mostly responsible, though sometimes forgetful
    - Uncaring of success in the big sense in the word, as in fame and prestige, but very afraid of failing in individual things (e.g. "I must not lose this game," "I must not do this incorrectly," etc.), especially letting people I care about most down
    - Mostly see good in everyone in the big sense of the word, but sometimes doubtful of them and their abilities if not proven so
    - Almost entirely modest, though I do like compliments and being loved very much
    - Emotionally expressive for the most part in private and people I'm close to (though sometimes emotionally void for some reason), but much more reserved in public as to not embarrass myself
    - Very shy and timid, but open up rather easily and become interested to those who approach me (95% of my friends approached me first)
    - Anxious and nervous quite frequently, but more calm and easy-going when not
    - Somewhat idealistic, but not visionary and ambitious about it that much at all
    - Very intimate and affectionate with those I'm close to, but only if they are comfortable with it
    * EXTREMELY self-critical, self-conscious, insecure, and shameful
    You sound like an introverted 6 to me. The only thing that would contradict 6 on your list is not being reactive. 6 is almost entirely reactive - that's our biggest problem to overcome. It's hard to recognize at first in yourself, though, in my experience.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Richardsen's Avatar
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    @Hazashin Inhibited So/Sx 6w7?
    You seem somewhat scattered, warm, phobic, ultra-nice...
    Beside of the usual stereotypical phobic stance. You seem quite Sp last.


    6w5(sw5w4) Sx/Sp
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    "Some people never go crazy... What truly horrible lives they must lead"- Charles Bukowski


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