Hap's Type

[scantilyclad]

I think you are def. an INTj.

 

[Haphazard]

what do you think of Machiavelli?

If you see something wrong with the world, would you seek to impose your order upon it, because it is *better* for everyone if you assume control, or would you be more likely to let them find their own way? (like an anxious parent behind the toddling child)

How much thought do you give before you act?

I've never read any Machiavelli, so I don't think I'm great to respond to this, but I'm under the impression that he was a very smart man, but I don't believe that running a government through fear is right, especially a modern one.

If there is something immediate that I can take charge of, I do it, but usually when I take charge of something it's because I'm so frustrated with the way that it's previously being run. Too many people refuse to take charge around me, so if something's got to be done, it's got to be done. I agree to a certain amount of government control over things but I'm not likely to start a coup or become a martyr, because hell, I value my own existence too much. I guess if I found something really worth my life I'd do it, but I highly doubt that I'll find something like that in my lifetime. I don't like leading, but I will lead if something is stagnating, as I often have had to at school.

When it comes to injustices on a grand scale, I don't usually feel the urge to combat them. Even if it's not fair, even if it's not right, there's usually a reason things turned out that way, and it's better to work within the system than try to abolish it completely. Even if revolution is bloody and glorious, I'd rather not live through it.

How much thought? This has to be a trick question. I think out about every single little thing I do, and even a lot of things I don't end up doing because I decide they're a waste of time before I do them.

 

[SillySapienne]

Energetic?

Ma'am, there are several factors that can go into that. At the moment I'm under a lot of stress so maybe another side is showing up. I've got to admit, life is making me scared and feeling terrible and I've been trying to get my catharsis online rather than letting it spill out into any other source. I know that I have to maintain a perfect demeanor in real life or else I'll end up heavily medicated. It's really a tough job, staying calm and appearing normal when you're falling apart from the inside.

Or maybe... it's just late...

You are a 15 year old highly gifted, exceptional female.

It is a rough gig, and I've done quite a bit of research on this, and you are *not* alone in having to deal with the backlash of societal norms, misguided policies, and the ignorant, yet powerful masses, who in failing to understand you, will either maliciously or inadvertently work to both hurt you and hinder your capacities.

F them!!!

You are awesome and there is nothing wrong with being exceptional!!!

If you stay true to yourself, you'll invariably end up on top.

 

[Haphazard]

You are a 15 year old highly gifted, exceptional female.

It is a rough gig, and I've done quite a bit of research on this, and you are *not* alone in having to deal with the backlash of societal norms, misguided policies, and the ignorant, yet powerful masses, who in failing to understand you, will either maliciously or inadvertently work to both hurt you and hinder your capacities.

F them!!!

You are awesome and there is nothing wrong with being exceptional!!!

Stay true to yourself!!!

Yes, I know I'm definitely, definitely not alone. There are a billion out there just like me. For some reason, this isn't comforting.

And also, that's a lot more exclamation points than are necessary...

I have a question, then, to those who insist INTP. Are P types normally bothered by deadlines? This is likely a stupid question, but it's one that I want the answer to.

 

[SillySapienne]

Yes, I know I'm definitely, definitely not alone. There are a billion out there just like me. For some reason, this isn't comforting.

And also, that's a lot more exclamation points than are necessary...

I have a question, then, to those who insist INTP. Are P types normally bothered by deadlines? This is likely a stupid question, but it's one that I want the answer to.

No, you've misread my post, there are *not* a billion out there like you, far from.

Your comment on my excessive use of exclamation points acts as a case-in-point in "proving" your INTJness.

I am providing you with support and yet you find it necessary to comment and critique my use of exclamation points, excessive as they may be...cute!!!!!

 

[Haphazard]

No, you've misread my post, there are *not* a billion out there like you, far from.

Your comment on my excessive use of exclamation points acts as a case-in-point in "proving" your INTJness.

I am providing you with support and yet you find it necessary to comment and critique my use of exclamation points, excessive as they may be...cute!!!!!

Every time you use that many exclamation points, I hear ringing in my ears...

I read you right loud and clear. There are actually quite a few of us, or at least we're overrepresented in the media. Everyone would like to fancy themselves above average, but less than half of them can be above average. That's just mathematics. It's hard to tell what's above average and what's not when people are all claiming to be above average.

 

[SillySapienne]

Every time you use that many exclamation points, I hear ringing in my ears...

I read you right loud and clear. There are actually quite a few of us, or at least we're overrepresented in the media. Everyone would like to fancy themselves above average, but less than half of them can be above average. That's just mathematics. It's hard to tell what's above average and what's not when people are all claiming to be above average.

Oy vey, here's an article you might find interesting.

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf

You did not read me loud and clear, perhaps you were too distracted by the ringing in your ears. Who knows, regardless, I'm sensing a bit of angst on your behalf, which is entirely understandable.

Before you jump to conclusions, read, assess and weigh all the facts.

 

[Haphazard]

Oy vey, here's an article you might find interesting.

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf

You did not read me loud and clear, perhaps you were too distracted by the ringing in your ears. Who knows, regardless, I'm sensing a bit of angst on your behalf, which is entirely understandable.

Before you jump to conclusions, read, assess and weigh all the facts.

I'm pretty sure angst is a typical teenage response to feelings of inadequacy and stress. Undesirable, but perfectly understandable, and even expected.

I've only just started reading this, but doesn't this sort of prove my point? What was my point? I don't even remember.

This is off topic, anyway. We're here to resolve the issue of type, not the issue of my teenage angst.

 

[white]

My arguing style... if my argument is dismissed immediately, I get very upset. I try to use evidence but often I have trouble coming up with specific examples for things. If it's an intellectual debate, I hate when people bring up things like lack of experience on my part (again, a teenager) to invalidated my argument, accusing me of close-mindedness and therefore finding grounds to dismiss my argument without actually disproving me.

- what is it about the dismissal that makes you upset? The fact that it was immediate, and you'd put a lot of thought into it and it was not considered fairly, or that you are right and the rest are not able to see it or the dismissal hurts your feelings?

- "have trouble coming up with specific examples"
because of?

" have no personal vendetta against the world"
- do you feel the world has it out for you though?

Describe yourself in a word/phrase. What would you say guides your actions. What values are important to you? What is it about yourself that is important to you?

 

[MetalWounds]

In looking over the entirety of your posts it is apparent that you are most likely an INTp. P types can very easily become upset with deadlines if the given subject holds a great deal of importance to them. Try not to get into the P/J "deadline" method of thinking, only a slight majority of the time does it hold true. In trying to determine P/J, analyze your daily life and determine if you find yourself compelled to follow things through, or if you start many things without finishing others. Also examine, in your daily life, weather you seek to control a situation, or understand it.

 

[elfinchilde]

I have a question, then, to those who insist INTP. Are P types normally bothered by deadlines? This is likely a stupid question, but it's one that I want the answer to.

Energetic?

Ma'am, there are several factors that can go into that. At the moment I'm under a lot of stress so maybe another side is showing up. I've got to admit, life is making me scared and feeling terrible and I've been trying to get my catharsis online rather than letting it spill out into any other source. I know that I have to maintain a perfect demeanor in real life or else I'll end up heavily medicated. It's really a tough job, staying calm and appearing normal when you're falling apart from the inside.

Or maybe... it's just late...

Tell ya what, I'm an INTP, so i'll describe my type. This will then provide a comparison for you, so you can see which of it resonates, and which of it doesn't. (note, the below is solely my perspective, which may not be classical of an intp, since i'm not a very typical INTP myself). If it helps, take the enneagram as well.

It's the P/J which you want resolution on, so I assume the INT is definite for you, and will focus on that last letter:

INTPs:

because spontaneity is our game, we dislike routine, dislike schedules. Very often, weak in follow through, and have problems with deadlines. In fact, i hate deadlines. I much prefer to work as and when; when the ideas come. And it flows. Deadlines to me are something that are best ignored. Alternatively, they provide the spurt for last minute inspiration, which is where the INTP works best under.

An INTP in that sense works best in spurts; whereas, an INTJ would work best methodically and consistently.

INTPs under stress get very, very hyper and energetic. It's the Ne going wild. You'd start seeing all sorts of (crazy) possibilities, want to do all sorts of crazy things. Feels like you're a trapped bird beating its wings against the cage.

Yet an INTP rarely, if ever, holds malice. Even if a wrong has been done to you, the natural instinct is not for revenge, but to walk out, to get out of it. In that sense, an INTP is more conflict avoidant than an INTJ: an INTJ is more likely to go head on. (perhaps an INTJ could weigh in here)

INTPs in conflict and in stress mode tend to fall apart. We don't do stress very well, unfortunately. INTJs under stress will likely get even stricter with themselves, and impose absolute control on themselves and their environment. THey get colder. An INTP meanwhile, does the classic implode-til-you-explode scenario. An INTJ would bury it within, likely. and dissociate from all emotion.

INTPs are also naturally more open and inclusive: because of the NP connection. The natural urge is to go out, to learn things, to get to know things. It is to play. The best explanation of an intp when facing new things:

THe world in that sense exists as a playground and a toy.

Whereas for the INTJ, the world exists as something to be controlled; to be changed, according to their vision.

An INTP seeks to take from the world what will help them within; occasionally, we may try to put an order to the world. But rarely, if ever, do we want to control others, or insist that things have to be *my* way. Because the aim of an INTP is to tinker with the system, to play with it, and to leave it. There's seldom any urge to impose direct control. It's the urge to understand, to figure out the flaws, and the possibilities. But not necesarily to implement.

The INTJ, on the other hand, because of Te, seeks to impose his order on the world. ie, the INTJ is keen on implementation; the INTP is keen on figuring out the process, and playing. He's not so much bothered about whether his ideas are implemented or not.

Also, INTPs are generally warmer than INTJs. innocent in affection; if they take to people, they take to them, if not, they don't. THere's seldom any hiding, or concealing of emotions. Mostly, they're at emotional games. An INTJ is too, but will methodically seek to pwn the game. INTPs will tell you straight out if they like you; it can be on a whimsy such as you like butterflies as much as they do. An INTJ is more likely to be circumspect, and do a cost-benefit analysis to decide if they should like you or not. If the benefits outweigh the costs, they'll choose to like you.

INTPs make conclusions fast, but are always willing to rework and change it. Because they are absolute in the moment, but subjective in the entire span of time: ie, they acknowledge possibilities and perspectives. INTJs rarely make conclusions, because it's all a *work in progress*, but once they do so, they are definite: ie, only one view.

Basically, under normal mode, an INTP is or . In stress mode, an INTP is

Under normal mode, an INTJ is

or

. Under stress (or even normal mode) an INTJ is

Which resonates more?

(note, as i'm an intp, other *possibilities* are always possible. so i'll leave the floor open for debate now. )

 

[MetalWounds]

^ And now my brain is like

 

[white]

INTJs are usually more succinct.

 

[elfinchilde]

^ And now my brain is like

medic.......metal needs his wounds addressed......medic......

just see the last two lines for a summary. the emoticons say it all.

INTPs talk more than INTJs. INTJs in stressed mode get even more taciturn. That's partly why i thought you were an INTP, Hap. Too many words for an INTJ.

was i right tho, MetalWounds?

 

[MetalWounds]

was i right tho, MetalWounds?

Uncannily so.

 

[Haphazard]

medic.......metal needs his wounds addressed......medic......

just see the last two lines for a summary. the emoticons say it all.

INTPs talk more than INTJs. INTJs in stressed mode get even more taciturn. That's partly why i thought you were an INTP, Hap. Too many words for an INTJ.

was i right tho, MetalWounds?

I don't believe this is true. An INTJ would use as many words as necessary. Perhaps a lot of words are necessary in this case? Maybe I'm just a bad writer; I write as much as I feel needs to be said. I guess it's a lot in this case.

I have a very good follow-through. I set up a schedule, and I still to it. If allowed to my own devices, I turn to a schedule, albeit a strange one.

A little pressure is good to me. A lot of pressure, however, makes me wilt. I know exactly what I need to do and how to do it, but I simply don't want to anymore. Even if I know I can preform, if I don't feel like I'm making progress, I shut down.

For example, NaNoWriMo, a writer's contest with 50,000 words, I'm able to complete easily in the alloted time. However, now, when deadlines come on top of each other and everyone insists on attention RIGHT NOW, I'm starting to believe that I can't keep up. In fact, I'd wager that what's really got me panicked is not the work itself, but rather the fact that everyone else is freaking out about the work. They insist that it's difficult, they insist that it's time consuming, when it doesn't have to be. I can only work when the pressure is internal. Too much external pressure can hurt me.

I've heard that INTJs can shut down under too much stress. Mostly, at the moment, I'm trying to continue pulling myself along to do what I need to do while internally, I'm panicking.

If I may get down to the root of the issue: I know two people who I believe to be INTPs. I am not like them at all, even in the ways you describe. Because most of you here seem to be INTP, you may be trying to initiate me into your ranks. I'm naturally skeptical. Prove me wrong.

@Aelan:

A lot of times in an argument, I think that I'll well-present my case, and then it just gets thrown out the window because it doesn't jive with what's already been established; I usually think through an idea a lot, and it gets thrown out without much thought. A lot of times I don't have adequate information to support what I'm saying because I forget specific examples easily, and yet I'm dedicated to what I said anyway. I remember an article I wrote once, apparently it was 'controversial' and I argued for a very long time. It hours for somebody to actually read the thing and say "I get your point." In those hours, I'd been torn to shreds, but they still hadn't given me adequate proof to take down my opinions.

I feel no personal vendetta against the world because it's nobody's fault that the world turned into how it is today. No matter how bitter I get about it, I always remember that there's nobody's particular fault. The world has been shaped for and by a particular kind of person. There are a lot who don't fit into that, but it's not their fault if the worldview is narrowminded. In fact, we're moving outwards from a more narrowminded society that was more concerned with survival than keeping people happy, so there are naturally going to be plenty of kinks left over.

I don't know what's important about me yet. I do know that what's important to me is that my internal world remain stable.

 

[Haphazard]

In looking over the entirety of your posts it is apparent that you are most likely an INTp. P types can very easily become upset with deadlines if the given subject holds a great deal of importance to them. Try not to get into the P/J "deadline" method of thinking, only a slight majority of the time does it hold true. In trying to determine P/J, analyze your daily life and determine if you find yourself compelled to follow things through, or if you start many things without finishing others. Also examine, in your daily life, weather you seek to control a situation, or understand it.

Doesn't understanding naturally beget control?

These subjects that I'm concerned with are important because it's school, and if I don't do well in school, I won't be able to get the scholarships I need for college. Part of the reason why I'm so angry about the deadlines is that they're coming on top of everything else. School is generally very busy in the first place, I generally have a system of how I work, and now I have to do all of this extra work, too, when already I'm complaining about my normal workload.

I can finish, and I can also stop and not follow through. When I tend to not follow through, it's because following through will seem pointless. If the initial writing doesn't make any sense and no amount of editing will fix it, why follow through? That sort of thing. Also, if the stress of something more important comes along, I will drop less important things (things I enjoy doing) to finish more important things (things that have more consequence in the long run), and often forget about the less important thing in the corner.

I am always looking towards the future. Sometimes I do stupid things that won't help me in the future, but most of the time that's the main drive.

 

[elfinchilde]

Doesn't understanding naturally beget control?

I am always looking towards the future. Sometimes I do stupid things that won't help me in the future, but most of the time that's the main drive.

lol. hang on a moment: i don't think any real INTP would wanna 'initiate' you into their ranks, really. i mean, you are who you are. it'd be an odd intp who'd want you to be 'one of us'. INTPs do not seek to control that way. I was describing the two types so you can have a better idea of what INTP is like, and then see, for yourself, if it sounds like you.

which was why i had said right at the start: take what resonates with you.

If you are, you are. If you're not, you're not. Ultimately, it's you yourself who'd know yourself best. No one else can tell you who you are, or who you *should* be.

Understanding doesn't necessarily beget control. You can understand, without changing it. That's why the forumers are asking if you seek to change/control things: that's one of the key motivations of an INTJ.

we need a female INTJ to weigh in here. I think gender differences may play a part as well. Usehername??

btw, my real advice would be this: do not get too hyped up about types, and pigeon hole yourself. or others. At the end of the day, what makes a person is their character. And in that sense, MBTI, or any other personality tool, can only define one aspect of the person. THe entirety of the person is something else altogether. THe degrees on the spectrum also matter a lot. The motivations, the things you grew up with; the influences of your friends and environments.

cheers!

 

[SillySapienne]

I told you guys.

She's an INTJ, fo' shizzle.

 

[Haphazard]

lol. hang on a moment: i don't think any real INTP would wanna 'initiate' you into their ranks, really. i mean, you are who you are. it'd be an odd intp who'd want you to be 'one of us'. INTPs do not seek to control that way. I was describing the two types so you can have a better idea of what INTP is like, and then see, for yourself, if it sounds like you.

which was why i had said right at the start: take what resonates with you.

If you are, you are. If you're not, you're not. Ultimately, it's you yourself who'd know yourself best. No one else can tell you who you are, or who you *should* be.

Understanding doesn't necessarily beget control. You can understand, without changing it. That's why the forumers are asking if you seek to change/control things: that's one of the key motivations of an INTJ.

we need a female INTJ to weigh in here. I think gender differences may play a part as well. Usehername??

btw, my real advice would be this: do not get too hyped up about types, and pigeon hole yourself. or others. At the end of the day, what makes a person is their character. And in that sense, MBTI, or any other personality tool, can only define one aspect of the person. THe entirety of the person is something else altogether. THe degrees on the spectrum also matter a lot. The motivations, the things you grew up with; the influences of your friends and environments.

cheers!

Oh yes, of course. That is always in mind.

The issue with the difference between INTJ and INTP is that most descriptions of either are to describe to the layman (who is usually neither) rather than the differences between the two. Too many people find that there's a lot of overlap. So, you know, there's a difference between an INTP and looking at parts that look vaguely INTPish but may very well be a part of an INTJ.