Type Me Again

[Silveresque]

This is correct. (It is basically the difference between Melancholy and Supine motives).

Still, we again must be careful with the generalizations of these type behavior trait descriptions.
Another good question we could ask is why she doesn't identify with "traditions". There might be some reason why, according to her experiences. Tradition is just one general trait emanating from the temperament and/or functional need. Other things can change this, but the need remains the same, and can be evidenced in other traits. So they can still be loyal from a sense of duty, but this can be on a more individual basis, rather than let's say a large institution, like if they believe that institution's values are messed up. (Particularly of note for an ISTJ, with tertiary Fi).
In such cases, they generally believe in "create new traditions".

Also, she did cross off far more INFP traits than either of the other two.

I don't identify with tradition because it doesn't make sense to me. It's circular logic--"We support this because it's tradition (because we supported it before). We will not be open to new perspectives and ideas because this is the way it's always been. It's important to maintain these traditions." What value does tradition have? What is the point? Why do people think this is a good thing? Are you supposed to feel some sort of "communal spirit" when you participate in these traditions?

I can see if it's some fun annual event or holiday, but it wouldn't be the fact that it's tradition that would give it value. The value would be in entertainment. Event's aren't more special or fun knowing that they've been done before and are tradition.

 

[Silveresque]

I didn't say that about NFP's, I think you have me confused with Glycerine. I don't see Revils as being grounded in reality, kind of like myself, another intuitive. I happen to be more grounded in myself than she is - i.e., I don't have identity problems. And unlike type 9s, I'm not so other-centric. Type 9s lose their identity in others, usually a significant other, by seeking merger with the other. It just so happens that the INFP in question is a type 9, but INFP's can't always be type 9s so not all INFPs are going to have that trait. INFPs, when they are type 4s, have another kind of identity issue. Therefore I can't possibly be stereotyping. I am simply looking at two systems at once, just as you do with your APS and MBTI.

"Cold" and "dry" are obviously emotional attitudes. Their attitude is "cold" and their speech is "dry" and unemotional.

I don't fit perfectly into the descriptions of type 9's. This is one of things I don't fit--I'm not other-oriented and I don't merge with others or lose myself in others. I wouldn't say I have a particularly strong sense of identity, but I certainly don't define myself through others or by my relationships with people.

 

[Eric B]

"Cold" and "dry" are obviously emotional attitudes. Their attitude is "cold" and their speech is "dry" and unemotional.

Cold and dry were originally connected with the elements the temperaments were associated with. Cold (earth, water) was less expressive, hot (air, fire) was more expressive. For example, Sanguines and Cholerics both are said to have "hot tempers". They are more expressive and by comparison, the introverts appear cooler (though they could be seething inside).
The "dryness" you describe would be connected with what we call "directive". As I always caution, we cannot take that word too literally. Anyone can issue directions, or not, but it's the "attitude", and this also connects to the people/task dichotomy. Someone people focused will likely not be so dry and unemotional. they're generally more "light and airy", as you can see by comparing NTJ's and NTP's, for instance.

I don't identify with tradition because it doesn't make sense to me. It's circular logic--"We support this because it's tradition (because we supported it before). We will not be open to new perspectives and ideas because this is the way it's always been. It's important to maintain these traditions." What value does tradition have? What is the point? Why do people think this is a good thing? Are you supposed to feel some sort of "communal spirit" when you participate in these traditions?

I can see if it's some fun annual event or holiday, but it wouldn't be the fact that it's tradition that would give it value. The value would be in entertainment. Event's aren't more special or fun knowing that they've been done before and are tradition.

OK, so now that sounds more like an NP perspective.

Another option I've been forgetting for some reason; seeing you have the I/C/A in you signature, is that some people might actually have Affection as their Interaction Style, in place of Inclusion. Affection is basically like deeper level of Inclusion, and technically a form of Interaction Style. A lot of people are the same temperament in Inclusion and Affection, so there is no problem. But if they are different, then it would seem one would fit Interaction Style, and the other would either be left out, or perhaps just modify it.

So if you're really an INFP, then Phlegmatic in Affection is what would correspond to INP, and Melancholy Complulsive in Inclusion would be left out. I've seen a few other here, who this seemed to work out for.

Still, I thought it was striking that you crossed out so much of the INFP description. But then as I've been saying, you can't always go too strictly by or put too much stock in those.

 

[Mal12345]

I don't fit perfectly into the descriptions of type 9's. This is one of things I don't fit--I'm not other-oriented and I don't merge with others or lose myself in others. I wouldn't say I have a particularly strong sense of identity, but I certainly don't define myself through others or by my relationships with people.

Type Four is also a strong option. But the Type 9s are so out of touch with themselves, on average, that they really can't identify their personality traits from books and tests. Type Fours, on the other hand, aren't known for their loyalty, but Type 6s are.

 

[Mal12345]

This is correct. (It is basically the difference between Melancholy and Supine motives).

Still, we again must be careful with the generalizations of these type behavior trait descriptions.
Another good question we could ask is why she doesn't identify with "traditions". There might be some reason why, according to her experiences. Tradition is just one general trait emanating from the temperament and/or functional need. Other things can change this, but the need remains the same, and can be evidenced in other traits. So they can still be loyal from a sense of duty, but this can be on a more individual basis, rather than let's say a large institution, like if they believe that institution's values are messed up. (Particularly of note for an ISTJ, with tertiary Fi).
In such cases, they generally believe in "create new traditions".

Also, she did cross off far more INFP traits than either of the other two.

And I've questioned the manner in which she crosses out one half of a sentence and leaves the other. This is simply to drop the context of, let's say, what loyalty is intended to mean for that type. So she left in "loyalty" for ISTJ, as well as the rest, and that's an error. I would have to go searching for similar errors, but this context-dropping error was the easiest to spot.

 

[Mal12345]

And I've questioned the manner in which she crosses out one half of a sentence and leaves the other. This is simply to drop the context of, let's say, what loyalty is intended to mean for that type. So she left in "loyalty" for ISTJ, as well as the rest, and that's an error. I would have to go searching for similar errors, but this context-dropping error was the easiest to spot.

Come to think of it, she's stated this about tests also. There often seems to be a case of half of a question she agrees with. You know that's a cognitive error. I've seen that before on this site. When people take tests they take questions out of context by looking at this versus that. But the entire question is the context, it's not meant to be broken up into separate pieces.

 

[Vizzy]

I don't identify with tradition because it doesn't make sense to me. It's circular logic--"We support this because it's tradition (because we supported it before). We will not be open to new perspectives and ideas because this is the way it's always been. It's important to maintain these traditions." What value does tradition have? What is the point? Why do people think this is a good thing? Are you supposed to feel some sort of "communal spirit" when you participate in these traditions?

I can see if it's some fun annual event or holiday, but it wouldn't be the fact that it's tradition that would give it value. The value would be in entertainment. Event's aren't more special or fun knowing that they've been done before and are tradition.

How do you see cultural traditions such as your family/ethnic language and family history? Can you appreciate the value of those things just because?

 

[Silveresque]

OK, so now that sounds more like an NP perspective.

Another option I've been forgetting for some reason; seeing you have the I/C/A in you signature, is that some people might actually have Affection as their Interaction Style, in place of Inclusion. Affection is basically like deeper level of Inclusion, and technically a form of Interaction Style. A lot of people are the same temperament in Inclusion and Affection, so there is no problem. But if they are different, then it would seem one would fit Interaction Style, and the other would either be left out, or perhaps just modify it.

So if you're really an INFP, then Phlegmatic in Affection is what would correspond to INP, and Melancholy Complulsive in Inclusion would be left out. I've seen a few other here, who this seemed to work out for.

I defined the inclusion part by when I want to approach and be approached by people (which is almost never). When I'm actually interacting with someone, I'm more phlegmatic.

Still, I thought it was striking that you crossed out so much of the INFP description. But then as I've been saying, you can't always go too strictly by or put too much stock in those.

I find most mbti type descriptions unreliable, since there seems to be little consistency, at least with the ones I've read. Anyways, I wouldn't describe myself as idealistic or focused on possibilities and the future. That's why I'm doubting whether I'm really an INFP.

Come to think of it, she's stated this about tests also. There often seems to be a case of half of a question she agrees with. You know that's a cognitive error. I've seen that before on this site. When people take tests they take questions out of context by looking at this versus that. But the entire question is the context, it's not meant to be broken up into separate pieces.

When did I say that?

 

[Mal12345]

When did I say that?

All I can say is that I can't solve your issue of being out-of-focus.

What I'm really getting out of this convo is the similarity between you and Gerri. You wouldn't know Gerri (unless you happen to be her), but she tested type 9 and shows many of the same traits you do, but she somatized terribly. For example, if someone was to say something negative to her (such as, "this isn't working because..."), or whatever, she would suddenly, out of nowhere, develop a migraine. And she was always very, very mellow.

 

[Silveresque]

How do you see cultural traditions such as your family/ethnic language and family history? Can you appreciate the value of those things just because?

I don't really have cultural traditions, other than holidays. I also wasn't raised into any religion, and English was never my favorite language. And I don't really know much of my family history either, so I guess the answer is 'no'.

 

[Mal12345]

You're saying things like 'I do a sort of "planned procrastination", where I have an idea of when I'm going to do something (which is usually at the second-to-last minute so I have extra time just in case). I don't like to have an exact time of when I'm going to do something, because I would rather have some flexibility so I can do it when I feel like it.' This is just over-analysis by picking up on one tiny trait out of dozens.

People I've spent time with in my past have made a strong impression on me, and to me you're "Gerri." We didn't talk together that much, but I was into typology even back then and made notes about everything and everybody. One of Gerri's funny quirks was that it was impossible to get her to react against or to fight against anything, anything at all. She was that mellow. One day she said her therapist even put a pillow over her face in order to try and suffocate a reaction of out of her. But all she did was lie there and take it.

 

[Silveresque]

You're saying things like 'I do a sort of "planned procrastination", where I have an idea of when I'm going to do something (which is usually at the second-to-last minute so I have extra time just in case). I don't like to have an exact time of when I'm going to do something, because I would rather have some flexibility so I can do it when I feel like it.' This is just over-analysis by picking up on one tiny trait out of dozens.

People I've spent time with in my past have made a strong impression on me, and to me you're "Gerri." We didn't talk together that much, but I was into typology even back then and made notes about everything and everybody. One of Gerri's funny quirks was that it was impossible to get her to react against or to fight against anything, anything at all. She was that mellow. One day she said her therapist even put a pillow over her face in order to try and suffocate a reaction of out of her. But all she did was lie there and take it.

I'm not that mellow. I prefer to avoid unnecessary conflict, but there are certainly situations where I would react angrily. It's just that that's my last resort. In my experience, anger doesn't do anyone any good.

 

[Mal12345]

I'm not that mellow. I prefer to avoid unnecessary conflict, but there are certainly situations where I would react angrily. It's just that that's my last resort. In my experience, anger doesn't do anyone any good.

Oh good, I was afraid you were going to say "I'm not like that, therefore I'm not a 9."

I certainly hope you're not that much like Gerri, because she spent some time in a psych ward.

 

[Vizzy]

I don't really have cultural traditions, other than holidays. I also wasn't raised into any religion, and English was never my favorite language. And I don't really know much of my family history either, so I guess the answer is 'no'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, guys, but isn't having a sense of history or finding some (nostalgic) value in culture/traditions the domain of Si? I know that as a Si-tertiary, I find comfort, identity and even pride in the things I mentioned...as though I'm part of a long line of something.

 

[Mal12345]

Correct me if I'm wrong, guys, but isn't having a sense of history or finding some (nostalgic) value in culture/traditions the domain of Si? I know that as a Si-tertiary, I find comfort, identity and even pride in the things I mentioned...as though I'm part of a long line of something.

I'm Si tertiary and I don't find comfort etc. in being part of a long line of something.

 

[Vizzy]

I'm Si tertiary and I don't find comfort etc. in being part of a long line of something.

Comfort and a sense of self in family traditions.
Some sort of pride and identity in being part of a long line of something.
Well, I do. (My favourite occasion out of the year is Chinese New Year).
I'm the family historian.

 

[Mal12345]

Comfort and a sense of self in family traditions.
Some sort of pride and identity in being part of a long line of something.
Well, I do. (My favourite occasion out of the year is Chinese New Year).
I'm the family historian.

Tertiaries are usually negative, but maybe not always. I can't identify with any aspect of Si that doesn't bother you in some way.

 

[Silveresque]

Si - I find comfort in the familiar, and often even prefer the familiar to trying new things
Ni - I hold many perspectives in my mind at the same time without committing to any one perspective

I relate strongly to both, but I find it hard to imagine that only Si users like the familiar and only Ni users consider multiple perspectives. That's why this is impossible to figure out. I can only find details that may or may not indicate a preference for a particular function.

 

[Mal12345]

Si - I find comfort in the familiar, and often even prefer the familiar to trying new things
Ni - I hold many perspectives in my mind at the same time without committing to any one perspective

I relate strongly to both, but I find it hard to imagine that only Si users like the familiar and only Ni users consider multiple perspectives. That's why this is impossible to figure out. I can only find details that may or may not indicate a preference for a particular function.

Type 9 correlates well with Si. Type 4 correlates well with Ni.

But it's easy to get confused when you're talking about functions vs. mbti types, because your preferred function doesn't have to match your MBTI. People think the two systems are alike, but they're not. They don't even have the same theory of extraversion/introversion. The MBTI is just something thrown together that sounds really nice in theory.

 

[Silveresque]

I think my current function order should be something like Fi>Si>Ni>Te. Is it possible for Si to replace Se or Ni to replace Ne?