Type Me Again

[Silveresque]

You know what? I relate more to all of the introverted functions than the extroverted ones. Si>Se, Ni>Ne, Fi>Fe, and Ti>Te. I am a true introvert.

 

[Xenon]

Congratulations, you are not an idiot.

Yeah, that doesn't exactly require Ni.

You know what? I relate more to all of the introverted functions than the extroverted ones. Si>Se, Ni>Ne, Fi>Fe, and Ti>Te. I am a true introvert.

Hmm. So which extraverted function do you relate to best? Are there ones you definitely don't relate to?

(Also, I knew you were a chick from the beginning. )

 

[Silveresque]

Hmm. So which extraverted function do you relate to best? Are there ones you definitely don't relate to?

(Also, I knew you were a chick from the beginning. )

Well, I don't seem to have one ounce of Se in me. I never liked sports, or anything involving exercise for that matter. And I'm never really living in the moment, I'm usually lost in my thoughts or just spacing out.

On the other hand, if greenlightwiki's definitions are accurate and I'm not misinterpreting them, I really don't relate at all to Ne either.

I can never tell with Te and Fe. I suppose I can relate a little to both, but I can't tell which one I relate to more. This really doesn't help at all.

 

[Silveresque]

I just read the descriptions of Fi, Ti, Fe, and Te. I think Fi and Te fit me better than Ti and Fe. This should make me IxFP or IxTJ.

 

[Mal12345]

So, I'm not feeling very INFP lately. I usually test as either INFP or ISFP (and recently ISFJ on the cognitive function test), and I'm pretty sure I'm in some sort of dominant-tertiary loop. I could be an INFP in a Fi-Si loop...but I'm starting to doubt whether I'm really Fi-dom.

Here are the types I'm considering:
INFP (Fi-Si loop)
INTP (Ti-Si loop)
ISFJ (Si-Ti loop)
ISTJ (Si-Fi loop/NFP shadow mode)

The function test does not search for tertiaries or shadows, every question is oriented toward dominant functions.

Don't start with the assumption that you have some tertiary or shadow to look at first. This is backward. Your highest scores are sensing and feeling. You score highest on introversion. Now determine your p or j scale. Just remember that you're trying to determine your MBTI type, not your Jungian type. That you are Jungian Si-dom seems firmly established by your test results. Your MBTI is either ISFP or ISFJ. You shouldn't assume that an ISFJ person cannot score highest on the Si scale. It would surprise me far more if you scored highest on an N or T scale.

Over-all, your two S function scores totaled 72.1, and your F scores came to 68.0. N is only 43.3. T came in third with 56.4.

Another assumption you make, a false one this time, is that you can determine j or p according to your dominant, your tertiary, etc. Use a more straightforward method. Do you score higher on the j or p scale on tests that test for those?

 

[Mal12345]

By the way, if I went solely on your list of interests in your profile, I would say you're an INFP. Of course, that forms the good ole FiSi loop which could account for your high Si score and Fi secondary. That would be, well, really neurotic, if you don't mind my saying so.

 

[Silveresque]

The function test does not search for tertiaries or shadows, every question is oriented toward dominant functions.

Don't start with the assumption that you have some tertiary or shadow to look at first. This is backward. Your highest scores are sensing and feeling. You score highest on introversion. Now determine your p or j scale. Just remember that you're trying to determine your MBTI type, not your Jungian type. That you are Jungian Si-dom seems firmly established by your test results. Your MBTI is either ISFP or ISFJ. You shouldn't assume that an ISFJ person cannot score highest on the Si scale. It would surprise me far more if you scored highest on an N or T scale.

Over-all, your two S function scores totaled 72.1, and your F scores came to 68.0. N is only 43.3. T came in third with 56.4.

Another assumption you make, a false one this time, is that you can determine j or p according to your dominant, your tertiary, etc. Use a more straightforward method. Do you score higher on the j or p scale on tests that test for those?

I get what you're saying and for the most part I agree. You're making the assumption that the cognitive function tests are accurate. It's actually very unusual for me to score so high on Si.

Here are my previous results from the function test:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ********* (9.2)
unused
introverted Sensing (Si) *************************************** (39.4)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************* (37.6)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************** (22.6)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) *********** (11.8)
unused
introverted Thinking (Ti) *************************************** (39.5)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************************** (32.2)
good use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *********************************************** (47.3)
excellent use

And here are my results from a different function test, which I scaled and set up to resemble the first kind: (http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/develop_old.html)

extraverted Sensing (Se) **************** (16)
unused
introverted Sensing (Si) ************************** (26)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************** (26)
average use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) **************************** (28)
unused
extraverted Thinking (Te) ************************** (26)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************************************** (58)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************************************ (36)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ****************************** (30)
excellent use

Anyways, to answer your question, I'm a pretty consistent P scorer.

By the way, if I went solely on your list of interests in your profile, I would say you're an INFP. Of course, that forms the good ole FiSi loop which could account for your high Si score and Fi secondary. That would be, well, really neurotic, if you don't mind my saying so.

I don't mind. I am quite neurotic at the moment and extremely withdrawn, which is why I'm assuming I'm in a dominant-tertiary loop. I'm not my usual self lately, so I would be very surprised if I weren't in a loop (and I think my clear preference for the introverted functions points to this as well).

 

[Mal12345]

Your test scores are so "all over the place," that I just think I'll have to go with INFP because of your profile description, and you say you consistently score P. The high Si on your present test result may or may not be meaningful as a tertiary, because the test does not test for anything but dominants, but I'll risk assuming that it is meaningful in this case.

 

[Silveresque]

Your test scores are so "all over the place," that I just think I'll have to go with INFP because of your profile description, and you say you consistently score P. The high Si on your present test result may or may not be meaningful as a tertiary, because the test does not test for anything but dominants, but I'll risk assuming that it is meaningful in this case.

My scores are generally consistent when they come from the same test. The results I showed you indicate that the tests are inconsistent with each other, which may mean one is accurate and the other inaccurate, or they may both be inaccurate.

Fortunately, I've saved a lot of my previous results. These are all from the keys2cognition test:

FIRST RESULTS:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ************** (14.3)
unused
introverted Sensing (Si) ******************************* (31.3)
good use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************** (38.4)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ****************** (18.5)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************* (21.9)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ***************************************** (41.3)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************** (20.9)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ***************************************************** (53.4)
excellent use

Fi>Ti>Ne>Si>Te>Fe>Ni>Se

RECENT:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ***** (5.7)
unused
introverted Sensing (Si) ***************************************** (41.1)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) **************************************** (40.2)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************ (12.2)
unused
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************** (22.6)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) *********************************************** (47.9)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) *********************** (23.7)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *********************************************** (47)
excellent use

Ti=Fi>Ne=Si>Fe=Te>Ni>Se

MORE RECENT:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ********* (9.2)
unused
introverted Sensing (Si) *************************************** (39.4)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************* (37.6)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************** (22.6)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) *********** (11.8)
unused
introverted Thinking (Ti) *************************************** (39.5)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************************** (32.2)
good use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *********************************************** (47.3)
excellent use

Fi>Ti>Si=Ne>Fe>Ni>Te>Se

MOST RECENT:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ******************* (19.4)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) **************************************************** (52.7)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************* (25.4)
average use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ***************** (17.9)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************* (21)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) *********************************** (35.4)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************************** (29.6)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************** (38.4)
excellent use

Si>Fi>Ti>Fe>Ne>Te>Se>Ni

As you can see, it's really only the last one that's significantly different.

The Ti/Fi variance can be explained by shifts in my own perception and bias. The first time, I was certain that I was INFP, so Fi came out on top by a long shot. The second time was while I was typed as INTP, so I was biased toward Ti. Then the third time I was back to INFP, but this time less certain about the T/F dichotomy.

But which interests from my profile indicate INFP? Because if it's philosophy and art, those are ones I should probably remove since I don't actually pursue those interests.

 

[Mal12345]

My scores are generally consistent when they come from the same test. The results I showed you indicate that the tests are inconsistent with each other, which may mean one is accurate and the other inaccurate, or they may both be inaccurate.

Fortunately, I've saved a lot of my previous results. These are all from the keys2cognition test:

FIRST RESULTS:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ************** (14.3)
unused
introverted Sensing (Si) ******************************* (31.3)
good use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************** (38.4)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ****************** (18.5)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************* (21.9)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ***************************************** (41.3)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************** (20.9)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ***************************************************** (53.4)
excellent use

Fi>Ti>Ne>Si>Te>Fe>Ni>Se

RECENT:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ***** (5.7)
unused
introverted Sensing (Si) ***************************************** (41.1)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) **************************************** (40.2)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************ (12.2)
unused
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************** (22.6)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) *********************************************** (47.9)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) *********************** (23.7)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *********************************************** (47)
excellent use

Ti=Fi>Ne=Si>Fe=Te>Ni>Se

MORE RECENT:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ********* (9.2)
unused
introverted Sensing (Si) *************************************** (39.4)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************* (37.6)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************** (22.6)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) *********** (11.8)
unused
introverted Thinking (Ti) *************************************** (39.5)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************************** (32.2)
good use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *********************************************** (47.3)
excellent use

Fi>Ti>Si=Ne>Fe>Ni>Te>Se

MOST RECENT:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ******************* (19.4)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) **************************************************** (52.7)
excellent use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************* (25.4)
average use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ***************** (17.9)
limited use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********************* (21)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) *********************************** (35.4)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************************** (29.6)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************** (38.4)
excellent use

Si>Fi>Ti>Fe>Ne>Te>Se>Ni

As you can see, it's really only the last one that's significantly different.

The Ti/Fi variance can be explained by shifts in my own perception and bias. The first time, I was certain that I was INFP, so Fi came out on top by a long shot. The second time was while I was typed as INTP, so I was biased toward Ti. Then the third time I was back to INFP, but this time less certain about the T/F dichotomy.

But which interests from my profile indicate INFP? Because if it's philosophy and art, those are ones I should probably remove since I don't actually pursue those interests.

Both INTP and INFP can drift toward philosophy. But Languages is the most telling category for the INFP.

 

[Vizzy]

Can I just say that I've always seen Te in you? I mean, even if it's just the way you seemingly need to order your functions (in your signature). That sort of ordering or organising (especially something as foggy as cognitive functions) is so Te. Of course, this doesn't mean only Te-users do that, but it's just an observation I wanted to share.

 

[Mal12345]

I'm reading the Ne description from greenlightwiki, and I actually can't relate to it very well at all. I think I relate more to Ni.

A strong tertiary means your auxiliary Ne is weak.

 

[Silveresque]

I could be INFP with weak Ne and strong Si, or I could be ISFP with weak Se and strong Ni, or I could be ISTJ with weak Te and strong Fi. Supposedly, ISTJ fits best best with my temperament (melancholy compulsive in inclusion).

 

[Mal12345]

I could be INFP with weak Ne and strong Si, or I could be ISFP with weak Se and strong Ni, or I could be ISTJ with weak Te and strong Fi. Supposedly, ISTJ fits best best with my temperament (melancholy compulsive in inclusion).

You're mixing two different but related systems: MBTI and Jung. This whole thing seems almost designed to confuse. And I know "they" say that ISTJ is a melancholy type, but I've never seen good evidence of this. Which temperament fits INFP best?

 

[Eric B]

I'm reading the Ne description from greenlightwiki, and I actually can't relate to it very well at all. I think I relate more to Ni.

Could be "left-brain alternative" (which is taught by the same theory on that site).

You're mixing two different but related systems: MBTI and Jung. This whole thing seems almost designed to confuse. And I know "they" say that ISTJ is a melancholy type, but I've never seen good evidence of this. Which temperament fits INFP best?

Melancholy is defined as introverted and task-focused. The Interaction Styles use introversion, of course, and directive is task focused. In the Keirsey groups, SJ is cooperative and structure focused, which is a parallel. (And Keirsey even said the SJ was the Melancholic).

INFP's tend to be Phlegmatic and/or Supine (the latter not being familiar to four temperament and type theories), but does provide an emotional energythe Phlegmatic doesn't have.

HeShe (oops, almost forgot again) did say his Control was Supine Phlegmatic or something like that, and with Melancholy Compulsive in Inclusion, would suggest INFJ*, but then he did not identify with Fe and Ni and instead began mentioning Fi and Te and got strongest Si. So I began leaning towards ISTJ, with a strong tertiary. (And yes, we do not start with the tertiary in typing someone, but if we see two functions like Si/Fi of the same attitude that are strong, then we can begin considering a strong or "inflated" tertiary).

Though she does always seem to get very low on Te. Though Vizzy says he sees a lot of Te.

So obviously, none of these tests is perfect, and it seems things are not lining up completely. So I can't be completely sure, but ISTJ seems like it could fit. I don't get NJ vibes from her at all, though, and I doubt SFP as well. NFP I would think would fit also, from what I have seen, though, I don't think it matches up with a Melancholy; and let alone Compulsive at that (Which is basically the mos purest, radical form of the temperament). Since that is not based on the actual test, but probably from just reading the profiles from the site I link to, it could be wrong. The actual test is designed to pick out the true temperament need, regardless of how the person feels or is behaving at the moment.

*(And then, forgot to mention in our discussion; Supine Phlegmatic is on the boundary of the Melancholy range; so I allow that that Control could fall on the SJ side, and it would basically end up as a preference between N and S, and J and P, which is what we are basically seeing here! I've had others like this as well!)

 

[Mal12345]

Could be "left-brain alternative" (which is taught by the same theory on that site).

Melancholy is defined as introverted and task-focused. The Interaction Styles use introversion, of course, and directive is task focused. In the Keirsey groups, SJ is cooperative and structure focused, which is a parallel. (And Keirsey even said the SJ was the Melancholic).

This is all interesting stuff, but I would like to focus on this. According to Wikipedia on the "Four Temperaments,"

Melancholic
The melancholic temperament is fundamentally introverted and thoughtful. Melancholic people often were perceived as very (or overly) pondering and considerate, getting rather worried when they could not be on time for events. Melancholics can be highly creative in activities such as poetry and art - and can become preoccupied with the tragedy and cruelty in the world. Often they are perfectionists. They are self-reliant and independent; one negative part of being a melancholic is that they can get so involved in what they are doing they forget to think of others.

How do you account for the fact that this article says melancholics are "introverted and thoughtful," while you claim they are "introverted and task-focused"?

Now to my mind, when you say "task-focused" you are simply going in circles. You saw the T in ISTJ and correctly thought "task-focused" (versus "people-oriented"), and then tried to claim that Melancholics must also be "task-focused." This is circular reasoning at its finest, you are just supporting your conclusion with the conclusion itself.

 

[Eric B]

"Thoughtful" there is just a general description; not the specific temperament factor I was referring to. Task focus is what comes out in the type theories as "directive" and "structure focused". Pure Melancholies are both! (And I don't see where "thoughtful" would contradict "task-focused" to begin with).
No, I didn't just look at "T", because NTP's are the exception in the Interaction Styles, being informative instead of directive (though they are still structure focused).

 

[Silveresque]

INFP vs. ISFP

Quote by simulatedworld:

While they are equally as focused on personal values and an individualistic sense of morality as INFPs, the major difference in the application of dominant Fi is that ISFPs do not analyze and reanalyze their values through hypothetical or theoretical extensions of their imaginations. Unless they are directly contributing to solving a real moral dilemma that affects them or a friend or loved one personally, they see little value in hashing and rehashing all the different possible applications of their values when there is so much immediately available information to deal with in the real world of tangible sensations and emotions.

I used to analyze my values sometimes, but I haven't been doing that lately. I went through a phase where philosophy and morality were fascinating, but lately I've kind of stopped seeing the point, to some extent. Just be compassionate and considerate, and that should be good enough. There's no need to make it more complicated than it is.

I would do one for ISTJ, but I can't find anything contrasting IxFP and ISTJ.

ISTJ
Quiet, serious, earn success by thoroughness and dependability. Practical, matter-of-fact, realistic, and responsible. Decide logically what should be done and work toward it steadily, regardless of distractions. Take pleasure in making everything orderly and organized – their work, their home, their life. Value traditions and loyalty.

ISFP
Quiet, friendly, sensitive, and kind. Enjoy the present moment, what’s going on around them. Like to have their own space and to work within their own time frame. Loyal and committed to their values and to people who are important to them. Dislike disagreements and conflicts, do not force their opinions or values on others.

INFP
Idealistic, loyal to their values and to people who are important to them. Want an external life that is congruent with their values. Curious, quick to see possibilities, can be catalysts for implementing ideas. Seek to understand people and to help them fulfill their potential. Adaptable, flexible, and accepting unless a value is threatened.

The above is based on how I've always been, not just how I am at this moment.

 

[Mal12345]

"Thoughtful" there is just a general description; not the specific temperament factor I was referring to. Task focus is what comes out in the type theories as "directive" and "structure focused". Pure Melancholies are both! (And I don't see where "thoughtful" would contradict "task-focused" to begin with).
No, I didn't just look at "T", because NTP's are the exception in the Interaction Styles, being informative instead of directive (though they are still structure focused).

Once again, that is circular, no matter what you looked at. You're just saying that "directive" and "structure focused" are pure Melancholic traits simply because ISTJ's have those traits.

 

[Mal12345]

INFP vs. ISFP

Quote by simulatedworld:


I used to analyze my values sometimes, but I haven't been doing that lately. I went through a phase where philosophy and morality were fascinating, but lately I've kind of stopped seeing the point, to some extent. Just be compassionate and considerate, and that should be good enough. There's no need to make it more complicated than it is.

I would do one for ISTJ, but I can't find anything contrasting IxFP and ISTJ.

ISTJ
Quiet, serious, earn success by thoroughness and dependability. Practical, matter-of-fact, realistic, and responsible. Decide logically what should be done and work toward it steadily, regardless of distractions. Take pleasure in making everything orderly and organized – their work, their home, their life. Value traditions and loyalty.

ISFP
Quiet, friendly, sensitive, and kind. Enjoy the present moment, what’s going on around them. Like to have their own space and to work within their own time frame. Loyal and committed to their values and to people who are important to them. Dislike disagreements and conflicts, do not force their opinions or values on others.

INFP
Idealistic, loyal to their values and to people who are important to them. Want an external life that is congruent with their values. Curious, quick to see possibilities, can be catalysts for implementing ideas. Seek to understand people and to help them fulfill their potential. Adaptable, flexible, and accepting unless a value is threatened.

I should point out that these three types share some commonalities. But that, irregardless of all three of them being "loyal," that term is going to have a different meaning for some or all of them. "Loyalty" is going to have a different connotation for the ISTJ, especially in the context of "traditions" which you crossed out (the formatting wasn't saved when I copied and pasted). So you're obviously not loyal to traditions.

Therefore, in this view, if you cross out "traditions" then "loyalty" should be thrown out along with it. But that's not to cross out "loyalty" for the other two types, because the motives differ. An ISTJ is loyal out of a sense of duty and tradition. So you can't have loyalty, for that type, without duty and tradition to support it. The other types will be loyal for other reasons. Their motives may have more to do with, oh, needing to be needed, or something like that, as a loyalty to others. You fill in the blank as to where your motives for loyalty lie and where your loyalty belongs. And you're not a J type anyway, right? At least we can be assured knowing that that has nothing to do with your loyalty.