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Thread: Type Me Again

  1. #81
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    This is correct. (It is basically the difference between Melancholy and Supine motives).

    Still, we again must be careful with the generalizations of these type behavior trait descriptions.
    Another good question we could ask is why she doesn't identify with "traditions". There might be some reason why, according to her experiences. Tradition is just one general trait emanating from the temperament and/or functional need. Other things can change this, but the need remains the same, and can be evidenced in other traits. So they can still be loyal from a sense of duty, but this can be on a more individual basis, rather than let's say a large institution, like if they believe that institution's values are messed up. (Particularly of note for an ISTJ, with tertiary Fi).
    In such cases, they generally believe in "create new traditions".

    Also, she did cross off far more INFP traits than either of the other two.
    I don't identify with tradition because it doesn't make sense to me. It's circular logic--"We support this because it's tradition (because we supported it before). We will not be open to new perspectives and ideas because this is the way it's always been. It's important to maintain these traditions." What value does tradition have? What is the point? Why do people think this is a good thing? Are you supposed to feel some sort of "communal spirit" when you participate in these traditions?

    I can see if it's some fun annual event or holiday, but it wouldn't be the fact that it's tradition that would give it value. The value would be in entertainment. Event's aren't more special or fun knowing that they've been done before and are tradition.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I didn't say that about NFP's, I think you have me confused with Glycerine. I don't see Revils as being grounded in reality, kind of like myself, another intuitive. I happen to be more grounded in myself than she is - i.e., I don't have identity problems. And unlike type 9s, I'm not so other-centric. Type 9s lose their identity in others, usually a significant other, by seeking merger with the other. It just so happens that the INFP in question is a type 9, but INFP's can't always be type 9s so not all INFPs are going to have that trait. INFPs, when they are type 4s, have another kind of identity issue. Therefore I can't possibly be stereotyping. I am simply looking at two systems at once, just as you do with your APS and MBTI.

    "Cold" and "dry" are obviously emotional attitudes. Their attitude is "cold" and their speech is "dry" and unemotional.
    I don't fit perfectly into the descriptions of type 9's. This is one of things I don't fit--I'm not other-oriented and I don't merge with others or lose myself in others. I wouldn't say I have a particularly strong sense of identity, but I certainly don't define myself through others or by my relationships with people.

  3. #83
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    "Cold" and "dry" are obviously emotional attitudes. Their attitude is "cold" and their speech is "dry" and unemotional.
    Cold and dry were originally connected with the elements the temperaments were associated with. Cold (earth, water) was less expressive, hot (air, fire) was more expressive. For example, Sanguines and Cholerics both are said to have "hot tempers". They are more expressive and by comparison, the introverts appear cooler (though they could be seething inside).
    The "dryness" you describe would be connected with what we call "directive". As I always caution, we cannot take that word too literally. Anyone can issue directions, or not, but it's the "attitude", and this also connects to the people/task dichotomy. Someone people focused will likely not be so dry and unemotional. they're generally more "light and airy", as you can see by comparing NTJ's and NTP's, for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I don't identify with tradition because it doesn't make sense to me. It's circular logic--"We support this because it's tradition (because we supported it before). We will not be open to new perspectives and ideas because this is the way it's always been. It's important to maintain these traditions." What value does tradition have? What is the point? Why do people think this is a good thing? Are you supposed to feel some sort of "communal spirit" when you participate in these traditions?

    I can see if it's some fun annual event or holiday, but it wouldn't be the fact that it's tradition that would give it value. The value would be in entertainment. Event's aren't more special or fun knowing that they've been done before and are tradition.
    OK, so now that sounds more like an NP perspective.

    Another option I've been forgetting for some reason; seeing you have the I/C/A in you signature, is that some people might actually have Affection as their Interaction Style, in place of Inclusion. Affection is basically like deeper level of Inclusion, and technically a form of Interaction Style. A lot of people are the same temperament in Inclusion and Affection, so there is no problem. But if they are different, then it would seem one would fit Interaction Style, and the other would either be left out, or perhaps just modify it.

    So if you're really an INFP, then Phlegmatic in Affection is what would correspond to INP, and Melancholy Complulsive in Inclusion would be left out. I've seen a few other here, who this seemed to work out for.

    Still, I thought it was striking that you crossed out so much of the INFP description. But then as I've been saying, you can't always go too strictly by or put too much stock in those.
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  4. #84
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I don't fit perfectly into the descriptions of type 9's. This is one of things I don't fit--I'm not other-oriented and I don't merge with others or lose myself in others. I wouldn't say I have a particularly strong sense of identity, but I certainly don't define myself through others or by my relationships with people.
    Type Four is also a strong option. But the Type 9s are so out of touch with themselves, on average, that they really can't identify their personality traits from books and tests. Type Fours, on the other hand, aren't known for their loyalty, but Type 6s are.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #85
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    This is correct. (It is basically the difference between Melancholy and Supine motives).

    Still, we again must be careful with the generalizations of these type behavior trait descriptions.
    Another good question we could ask is why she doesn't identify with "traditions". There might be some reason why, according to her experiences. Tradition is just one general trait emanating from the temperament and/or functional need. Other things can change this, but the need remains the same, and can be evidenced in other traits. So they can still be loyal from a sense of duty, but this can be on a more individual basis, rather than let's say a large institution, like if they believe that institution's values are messed up. (Particularly of note for an ISTJ, with tertiary Fi).
    In such cases, they generally believe in "create new traditions".

    Also, she did cross off far more INFP traits than either of the other two.
    And I've questioned the manner in which she crosses out one half of a sentence and leaves the other. This is simply to drop the context of, let's say, what loyalty is intended to mean for that type. So she left in "loyalty" for ISTJ, as well as the rest, and that's an error. I would have to go searching for similar errors, but this context-dropping error was the easiest to spot.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #86
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    And I've questioned the manner in which she crosses out one half of a sentence and leaves the other. This is simply to drop the context of, let's say, what loyalty is intended to mean for that type. So she left in "loyalty" for ISTJ, as well as the rest, and that's an error. I would have to go searching for similar errors, but this context-dropping error was the easiest to spot.
    Come to think of it, she's stated this about tests also. There often seems to be a case of half of a question she agrees with. You know that's a cognitive error. I've seen that before on this site. When people take tests they take questions out of context by looking at this versus that. But the entire question is the context, it's not meant to be broken up into separate pieces.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #87
    Senior Member Vizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I don't identify with tradition because it doesn't make sense to me. It's circular logic--"We support this because it's tradition (because we supported it before). We will not be open to new perspectives and ideas because this is the way it's always been. It's important to maintain these traditions." What value does tradition have? What is the point? Why do people think this is a good thing? Are you supposed to feel some sort of "communal spirit" when you participate in these traditions?

    I can see if it's some fun annual event or holiday, but it wouldn't be the fact that it's tradition that would give it value. The value would be in entertainment. Event's aren't more special or fun knowing that they've been done before and are tradition.
    How do you see cultural traditions such as your family/ethnic language and family history? Can you appreciate the value of those things just because?
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  8. #88
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    OK, so now that sounds more like an NP perspective.

    Another option I've been forgetting for some reason; seeing you have the I/C/A in you signature, is that some people might actually have Affection as their Interaction Style, in place of Inclusion. Affection is basically like deeper level of Inclusion, and technically a form of Interaction Style. A lot of people are the same temperament in Inclusion and Affection, so there is no problem. But if they are different, then it would seem one would fit Interaction Style, and the other would either be left out, or perhaps just modify it.

    So if you're really an INFP, then Phlegmatic in Affection is what would correspond to INP, and Melancholy Complulsive in Inclusion would be left out. I've seen a few other here, who this seemed to work out for.
    I defined the inclusion part by when I want to approach and be approached by people (which is almost never). When I'm actually interacting with someone, I'm more phlegmatic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Still, I thought it was striking that you crossed out so much of the INFP description. But then as I've been saying, you can't always go too strictly by or put too much stock in those.
    I find most mbti type descriptions unreliable, since there seems to be little consistency, at least with the ones I've read. Anyways, I wouldn't describe myself as idealistic or focused on possibilities and the future. That's why I'm doubting whether I'm really an INFP.

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Come to think of it, she's stated this about tests also. There often seems to be a case of half of a question she agrees with. You know that's a cognitive error. I've seen that before on this site. When people take tests they take questions out of context by looking at this versus that. But the entire question is the context, it's not meant to be broken up into separate pieces.
    When did I say that?

  9. #89
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post

    When did I say that?
    All I can say is that I can't solve your issue of being out-of-focus.

    What I'm really getting out of this convo is the similarity between you and Gerri. You wouldn't know Gerri (unless you happen to be her), but she tested type 9 and shows many of the same traits you do, but she somatized terribly. For example, if someone was to say something negative to her (such as, "this isn't working because..."), or whatever, she would suddenly, out of nowhere, develop a migraine. And she was always very, very mellow.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #90
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vizzy View Post
    How do you see cultural traditions such as your family/ethnic language and family history? Can you appreciate the value of those things just because?
    I don't really have cultural traditions, other than holidays. I also wasn't raised into any religion, and English was never my favorite language. And I don't really know much of my family history either, so I guess the answer is 'no'.

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