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  1. #1
    curiouser and curiouser bluestripes's Avatar
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    on the MBTI tests i have done so far, i’ve scored as an INxP (with pronounced N and P and weak introversion). however, after i started to read more about the various types, i began to have more doubts as to how accurate this really is. i wonder how you would define my type based on these answers.

    *

    1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

    i seem to be a collection of contradictory – or mutually exclusive – traits. what i am does make sense to myself, on an instinctual level, but i wonder whether there might be an explanation for my being that way.

    2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?

    right now my goals are very specific:

    1) i want to finish a sci-fi book i've been writing with a co-author for several years, complete the constructed language that is to go with it, and see both published;

    2) i want to do all the cross-stitching projects i have planned (of which there is a lot, owing to my habit of chronic procrastination);

    3) i want to find a man whom i would see as a suitable mate, marry him (or just start living together) and give birth to a child. if this doesn't work out, i would settle for an agreement with a man to make me pregnant, after which i would raise the baby on my own.

    for a variety of reasons, i think it would be pointless to look further than this for the time being.

    3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

    i was fifteen and had just finished high school (i graduated slightly earlier than most). i had no idea what was going to happen to me; i don’t think i could even imagine what university life would be like, because of how sheltered i had been before, but this, in itself, made me excited. the future was a dark, thrilling enigma. i would look forward to each coming day and inwardly urge time to fly by faster, so i could finally discover *what* was waiting for me. i was full of half-formed dreams i could not define even for myself. everything seemed to be breathing, losing its solidity; the leaves on the trees glowed with an internal light of their own, the sensation of the wind lifting my sarong and touching my bare legs was intoxicating and i felt so light i could well have been floating a few inches off the ground. i was happy, whole, at one with myself and my surroundings, and more friendly and outgoing than ever before.

    i know that i was probably having a hypomanic episode (i am suspected bipolar), but i still think of this as a time when i was happiest.

    4) What makes you feel inferior?

    in my teens and early twenties, i used to feel inferior because i felt powerless. my parents were rather controlling and pressured me into accepting the choices they saw most fit for me. at the time, i wasn't strong enough to just tell them to mind their own business, so the only way i would retain my sense of self was through passive aggression, i.e. refusing to become what my parents wanted to see me as, and, at the same time, taking no real action to make my own dreams come true. it went as far as my failing at elementary hygiene (not brushing my teeth until they darkened, not combing my hair until it became tangled and i had to cut out entire strands, changing my clothes once a month or so, only once they would start to smell and would become drenched in sweat) just because my mother thought a woman’s appearance was of paramount importance, and was not particularly fond of my body shape. i felt as if i was betraying myself by behaving in this manner and was ashamed of my own weakness.

    these days, i no longer feel inferior. thankfully.

    5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)

    my understanding of what is "right" and "wrong". hurting other people does qualify as wrong for me, so i will take this into account.

    i used to be much more impulsive in the past, and would rely mostly on my “sixth sense” and my feelings about the situation (which i frequently was unable to identify or describe to others). there are two areas where i still act on impulse: gift-giving and shopping (for presents, flowers, postcards, food that falls into the “mood food” or “comfort food” category, objects that have an emotional significance for me, such as collectable tiny glass figurines, glass ornaments or soft toys, art or craft supplies, and, on occasion, clothes that i particularly like). both of these are directly connected to my sense of emotional well-being.

    6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?

    i focus on the process itself. after all, this is the only way to ensure that the outcome is as excellent as possible.

    7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?

    i’m not sure this qualifies as fun – “warm”, “special” or “emotionally intense” might be better descriptions – but each of the many evenings i have spent with a friend would do.

    8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)

    it depends on what i am learning, but i think it is most vital for me to be able to visualize the material. while studying ethics i see certain situations in my mind, the choices one could make or the ways one could behave, and the feelings one would be likely to experience (or, in general, the feelings caused by specific types of human behavior). while learning a foreign language, i do the exercises in writing and make a summary of each grammar section, which i can then write down several times over and/or type out in MSWord. having the written text in front of me ensures that the learning is fast and very efficient.

    hands-on learning is useful, but not necessary. for example, if i want to learn a new recipe, i will be fine as long as i can imagine all the required ingredients (what they look like, myself reaching for the shelf to get them or buying them at the department store or the farmers’ market, etc.) and the process of cooking (standing at the table and doing the chopping, slicing or mixing, pouring water into the pot, heating it with the flame tuned to a specific height, etc.). i do not have to watch a cook carry out these actions or to repeat them.

    9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?

    i am the very opposite of “organized”. at university i used to be dreadful at observing deadlines and would habitually miss them and submit my work several days late (i don’t envy the tutors who had to deal with this – i guess they were very generous in that they not only accepted my assignments but also gave me positive assessments). whenever there is a task i need to do, i tend to delay it until the very last moment. then, if i am lucky, i will have an insane outburst of energy, during which i will sit down, concentrate as much as i can and complete the whole task in a matter of hours. if i am not, i will feel crushed and hide from the person for whom i was supposed to do the task, or write apologetic emails until the issue is resolved. i wrote both my BA and my MA theses in this manner; there is a saying here that a typical student spends no more than two weeks on a final paper, and i did just that. usually, i would write on the night before the scheduled meeting with my supevisor, and i remember “giving birth” to the introduction and conclusions of my MA paper at an internet cafe, just minutes before i had to hand in the final version. surprisingly, i got an 8 (on a ten-point scale).

    my room is sheer (un)inspired chaos – there are stick-on notes everywhere telling me to do this or that (though, of course, i forget to look at them when i have to), my desk is covered in open books and sheets of paper with something scribbled on them, there are clothes strewn all over my mattress bed and chairs and occasionally on the floor as well. i may neglect it so much that there will be a thick layer of dust on my table and book shelves and the PC keyboard becomes so dirty it is difficult to see which key is which. then, once a month or so, i will suddenly notice this and spend the whole day tidying up. if i do start doing this, i become obsessive about cleaning out each tiny stain or each mote of dust, even those of them that would have gone unnoticed by somebody else, so that in the end everything is shining. not for long, though. i allow a heap of dirty cutlery and utensils to collect in the kitchen sink; then, when the heap becomes huge and starts to smell, and i no longer have anything to eat with, i will spend an hour or two doing the dishes.

    i read books in random snippets, starting at the final pages or in the middle. i rarely have the patience to read a book consistently from the beginning to the end like most other people i know, even if i find it extremely engaging.

    10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?

    it would depend on the idea itself and the sphere it belongs to. if it’s a theological concept, i would most certainly focus on whether or not it makes sense within the larger conceptual framework i am using as a basis (and also on the emotions connected to it); if it is a biological hypothesis, i would try to determine whether it is based on any factual data obtained through observation.

    11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

    i don’t tend to meddle in group dynamics. i think i can only focus on one individual at a time; if i am within a group, i tend to concentrate on a single member and lose track of the others. when it comes to others feeling well, yes, i do care about that – for instance, if i come to work and hear a colleague complaining about being sick, i will feel concerned and will try to suggest something they might want to do to get better, if i can.

    being myself and following my values and beliefs is what i do always regardless of the situation, so i should think this is more important for me.

    12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?

    ideally, i do like to think before i speak. this might mean that i have to talk slowly, but i don’t mind. however, when i am feeling uptight or tired, i tend to do the opposite and say the first thing that comes to mind, which may or may not make sense (and is often less than nice).

    i definitely prefer meeting my friends one at a time, rather than in a group. what i really like are lengthy conversations with a single friend, most commonly at some cozy pub or while taking a stroll together. i feel this is the only way to communicate in the genuine sense of that word, and to form a certain lasting bond. i don't think i could do the same in a group; all the more so my friends are all very different and there are few topics that would interest all of them at once, save for the most superficial ones.

    13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?

    these days i like to be cautious and to consider all the advantages and disadvantages before i reach a decision. shopping, giving gifts to friends and treating them to dinner are the major exceptions.

    actions do speak louder than words. i don’t mind people who avoid discussing their relationships and feelings for each other altogether, as long as they actually do something to show that they care. and i feel revolted when people talk about feelings without actually meaning what they say.

    sometimes i wonder whether the word “love” should be banned for a while both from literature and everyday discourse. it’s such a valuable word, but one constantly hears it being uttered by those who have no idea what it stands for, just because it sounds glorious.

    14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?

    i'll choose to go out with my friends. i can always watch the show when it is repeated, or download it from a torrent; it can wait. my friends, on the other hand, may not have the time to see me later on, and the same may be true for myself. it's best to make use of any opportunity to socialize as soon as it presents itself.

    15) How do you act when you're stressed out?

    as a rule, i talk non-stop, to a point where it becomes very difficult to shut me up; i say many redundant phrases without thinking, break off in mid-sentence, forget what i had just been saying, repeat things i had already stated again and again, and struggle and fail to find the right words. i also tend to use a horrible pidgin consisting of russian, english and lithuanian expressions. i would not be sure that it's always possible to understand me.

    i may also become restless and start thinking obsessively about the stressful situation (or, rather, imagining that situation, its possible outcomes and the ways i might act to resolve it).

    16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?

    the following qualities:

    * when one coerces or forces others into subcribing to one’s own vision of the world;

    * when one projects one’s own desires, dreams or fears onto another person and lives vicariously through them, as if they were a (metaphorical) ventriloquist’s dummy;

    * outright physical violence;

    * when one attempts to force another person to accept one’s point of view, citing “arguments” that are rife with logical fallacies, and, in fact, are not proper arguments at all.

    17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?

    i like to discuss anything – my and my friends’ personal lives, what we have been doing lately, our hobbies and interests, general subjects such as philosophical and ethical issues, books we have read, shows or movies we have watched, the characters and their behavior, our pets. all of this is engaging and helps create a stronger mutual connection.

    18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?

    my physical appearance. on the one hand, i feel somewhat dissociated from my body, because it has been used in the past to manipulate me, and am still trying to develop a better awareness of it. on the other, i refuse to be an object whose “packaging” has to be perfect. if someone is really interested in me, they should be able to see and appreciate what is inside; but if the “wrapping” is all that matters to them, i want them out of my life. now.

    19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? What would your friends never say about your personality?

    my friends’ opinions of me are very different, so much that it is sometimes hard to believe they are talking about the same individual. i think each of them could be right in her own way, though.

    friend nr. 1 says that at first, when we had just met, she thought me very odd. she was somewhat wary of me, too, as i seemed to have a cold, hard quality she found difficult to pinpoint. it took a while for her to get used to me, but now that she has, she just appreciates me and tries to accept me for who i am. however, she has admitted that there is an intense vibe about me which feels “too much”, at times, and that my presence makes her reflect on various issues when she doesn’t want to do so, so she often avoids me.

    friend nr. 2 thinks i am nice, sweet and a somewhat helpless, probably due to poor social adjustment. she says i am what could be translated as a “space cadet” and is, more often than not, fairly overprotective toward me.

    friend nr. 3 summed me up in two phrases: "friend to all living things" (i personally would have changed this to "good with animals, not (so) good with people", but there it is) and "cloud cuckoolander", a la luna lovegood or winifred burkle. i do agree with the last one.

    friend nr. 4 thinks that i am very outgoing, fond of simple pleasures such as good food or drink. she envies me a little because she thinks i have a much easier time expressing my emotions and getting them out of my system than she does. but then she thinks i am a doormat because of the way i have allowed my parents to take advantage of me. she also thinks me somewhat on the stupid side (not so much because my thinking is weak, but because i never bothered to develop it) and lacking in imagination. by this she means both that i have literal difficulty imagining some situations, and that some of them, such as scenes of torture, are too shocking for me and i stop and go no further.

    i'm not sure what my friends would never say about me - i cannot read their minds.

    20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?

    it would depend on how i feel, whether or not i have had enough sleep and feel the same chronic exhaustion that i’ve been struggling with over the last several years, but supposing that i am in fine shape, i would start the day with something that requires more concentration (reading, embroidery, the scenes from the book i’m currently working on). then i would go the gym and train at the heavyweight athletics hall until i feel tired, after which i would do a few rounds at the sauna and possibly swim for a while in the pool. in the evening, just as it starts to grow dark, i would call a friend to go to a quiet pub to have a chat and a good solid dinner with a couple of beers.

    of course, i doubt that i could ever be this organized. most of my days off are similar, except i manage to do just one or two of these activities and waste the rest of the time on, well, i am not even sure what.
    Last edited by bluestripes; 11-08-2011 at 02:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Doesn't Read Your Posts Haight's Avatar
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    Did you share your criticism with the people at Personality Cafe? Posting it here seems misplaced.

    To be honest, I really don't care how accurate their test is, but then I wouldn't expect it to be accurate in the first place.
    "The only time I'm wrong is when I'm questioning myself."
    Haight

  3. #3
    Member Bamboozle's Avatar
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    I didn't read any criticism of any test from Personality Cafe in the OP. It sounded like the usual skepticism directed to all MBTI tests, actually.

    It's difficult to say. What type do you think you are? I would suggest something with Fe in it, so not P at all. Not T, neither.

    IxFJ? Just my feeling.

    EDIT: Ah, I see you have another post. They seemed to think ISFP. I thought it was a more INFJ-ish thing to do to speak of 'vibes' the way you did, actually. I could be completely off.
    3 INTP

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    curiouser and curiouser bluestripes's Avatar
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    Bamboozle:

    until recently, i used to agree for the most part with the INFP assessment. i appear to match the profile some 95 percent (though what remains doesn't fit the picture altogether). among other things, the NP combination seemed to explain why i am so disorganized - but then, on the other hand, there is much more to being an xNxP type than just that. and now that i've been reading the additional information on the other types, i do seem to match most of the ISFP profile as well, along with some parts of the INFJ one and perhaps a small portion of the one for ISFJ.

    i guess i'm sure at this point that i am an introvert (no matter how outgoing i might be, i do tend to respond more, rather than be the first to initiate interaction, i prefer one-on-one socializing to socializing in groups, and i need to have some time to myself) and that there has to be an F somewhere in there. the rest is debatable.

    the part about "vibes" is difficult to describe. often, when i am around a specific person, i sense their feelings and they are almost palpable, more like a physical sensation (though this doesn't guarantee that i will be able to articulate them - if anything, that sensation is very raw, it is just "something" that is there). i'm not sure what personality pattern this might indicate.

  5. #5
    Member Bamboozle's Avatar
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    I don't suppose you've read much about the functions themselves? It's just that, beyond a certain point, it's just easier to dig deeper into the theories. After all, the types are based on the functions. If you take the functions out, MBTI is just a vague descriptor of personalities…that don't necessarily capture all that much :P.

    I'll focus on what you said about vibes. I read once that INFPs could sit in a room and intuitively know which way everyone was 'facing' in terms of moods and feelings. They seem to be really interested in getting to the 'heart' or 'core' of someone's feelings. They don't necessarily know how to communicate that understanding, though, I think. Fi doesn't really set you up for communication as well as Fe. — I actually get the sense the INFJs read feelings as being more in the moment…and yet more long-term. With friends, for example, they are extra-sensitive about the circumstances in someone's life and how that might come to bear upon someone's behaviour. And, at the same time, they're very good at bouncing off how the person acts.

    This is simplifying things, and I don't know if actual F-doms would agree…but I always saw Fi as empathetic and Fe as sympathetic. I find that INFPs want other people to feel with them or will try to feel with a friend who is hurt. INFJs will…be able to comfort you more, somehow. They'll say all the comforting things. INFPs won't try to change how you feel so much…? Maybe.

    The way you described 'vibes' made me think more Fi. And, it's true that INFJs are less likely to be messy (it's that seventh function Te, I think!).

    If you're still not sure, there was a great thread (argument?) between some INFPs and INFJs. Peacebaby brought up a real life situation that seemed to really divide the NFs in that conversation, with the INFPs on one side and the INFJs on the other. Tiltyred did a lot of speaking for the INFJ side. If you can be bothered, maybe see which side you were on? (I know that, even as an INTP, I'm more comfortable with Fi and I sided with the INFPs :P.)
    3 INTP

  6. #6
    curiouser and curiouser bluestripes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
    I don't suppose you've read much about the functions themselves?
    no, i haven't. i am only starting to do so, through from what i've managed to read so far it does seem that i am Fi, rather than Fe.

    the other day, i discovered that i have jung's "type and temperament" sitting on my shelf. ironically, it is one of the few books by jung i which haven't read; i found him a considerable help in dealing with mental health issues, and his work is extremely interesting in itself, but i was not drawn toward his theory of psychological types until recently. now i'm glad i had bought the book from a friend several years ago, just in case i might wish to have a look at it later.

    then there are the traits that make me have second thoughts about being an intuitive type, because they seem to suggest introverted sensing and not intuition. there are not that many of them, but they're quite prominent in their own right. perhaps i should make a separate post about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
    I'll focus on what you said about vibes. I read once that INFPs could sit in a room and intuitively know which way everyone was 'facing' in terms of moods and feelings. They seem to be really interested in getting to the 'heart' or 'core' of someone's feelings. They don't necessarily know how to communicate that understanding, though, I think. Fi doesn't really set you up for communication as well as Fe.
    this is my problem. i can get slightly lost and start wandering around in circles even when describing something simple and mundane; i taught myself to talk more or less coherently only in my mid-twenties, around the time i got a regular second job at a call center. i had no other choice. but when it comes to my internal states, i'm as inarticulate as ever. my own emotions are not necessarily clear to me either; sometimes they make sense, other times, they do not.

    this is still another issue that makes me wonder. is it possible to be F-dominant and answer "i don't know" when someone asks how i feel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
    This is simplifying things, and I don't know if actual F-doms would agree…but I always saw Fi as empathetic and Fe as sympathetic. I find that INFPs want other people to feel with them or will try to feel with a friend who is hurt. INFJs will…be able to comfort you more, somehow. They'll say all the comforting things. INFPs won't try to change how you feel so much…? Maybe.
    i think "empathetic, but not (too) sympathetic" is an accurate description of how i am.

    i'm certainly better at just being there for a friend, if they need it - sitting there and listening, silently, or making some small sign, usually not even verbal, to indicate that i understand. feeling with them, feeling as if i were them, to a certain extent. i'm much worse at giving advice. if anything, when it comes to this, i often feel powerless. i may want to change the state of affairs, and strongly at that, but i don't know what i could conceivably do or say. the expression "internal paralysis" summarizes it well enough, i think.

    also, that sensation caused by other people's feelings can be like a sharp stab somewhere deep down or a feeling that my world is starting to disintegrate, inside and out. this makes me want to withdraw. a few times this reached the level of a sentiment i could describe as "get thee and thy [insert name of offending emotion] away from me". i glared, went into shutdown mode, had an urge to shut my eyes and cover my eyes with my hands, or to leave and slam the door behind me. i'm not sure that i had the best expression on my face, either. i can only guess how this looked to an outside observer.

    most of the times this happened, the other person was in histrionics over an issue that wasn't really there in the first place. i think there was a considerable dose of disgust in that state of general emotional overload.

    in the past, i went through a period of wanting to go into the caring professions because i had this vague desire "to help" - as a child, i wanted to be an MD or a nurse, then, in my mid teens, i thought i might become a psychologist. i tried to study psychology at university for one year, which was a disaster in all senses of the word. now i know i would never be able to do this, because, once again, i) i may have enough empathy but i lack sympathy, ii) i feel it is not my calling and iii) i would burn out and/or suffer a complete shutdown very soon, because i don't have the detachment necessary to do such a job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
    If you're still not sure, there was a great thread (argument?) between some INFPs and INFJs. Peacebaby brought up a real life situation that seemed to really divide the NFs in that conversation, with the INFPs on one side and the INFJs on the other. Tiltyred did a lot of speaking for the INFJ side. If you can be bothered, maybe see which side you were on? (I know that, even as an INTP, I'm more comfortable with Fi and I sided with the INFPs :P.)
    thanks! this should be really helpful.

  7. #7
    Member Bamboozle's Avatar
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    Just from how you responded to the empathetic/sympathetic thing, I would say you fell into the Fi-camp pretty definitely. To me, that's exactly Fi. (Though this is coming from an INTP, so…!)

    this is still another issue that makes me wonder. is it possible to be F-dominant and answer "i don't know" when someone asks how i feel?
    I think INFPs strive to understand themselves. INFPs are said to strive toward authenticity. I think that perpetual attempt to clarify one's inner self to oneself is the INFPs eternal quest. Such is the impression I get. I don't know if INFPs ever figure it out once and for all.

    Of course, it could be just that you really don't know. NTs famously find it difficult to articulate what they're like inside. I certainly suffer from this. But I think this stems from actual ignorance as opposed to the uncertainty of the NFs. The NFs seem to know that what they're trying to figure out is quite complex. NTs just have no idea. Even those NTs who are a little in touch with their inner self seem to have but a vague idea of how it works and have some idea that it is a thing that acts of its own accord; quite mysterious.

    Do you fit into one of these? It can be difficult to tell, I think. INFPs can feel things intensely (and you seem to have described the intensity of your empathy very well). But NTs can feel things intensely, too…often, I think, because they don't regulate themselves so well and so it builds up and explodes all over them.

    then there are the traits that make me have second thoughts about being an intuitive type, because they seem to suggest introverted sensing and not intuition.
    Well, actually, for the INFP, Si is the tertiary function. If I understand correctly, the four main functions (Fi, Ne, Si, Te) all reinforce one another, especially if they share a realm—introvertedness or extravertedness. So Fi is reinforced by Si. The functions don’t just work separately; they work together, too.

    (INTPs are kind of similar in this respect, perhaps. Si is my tertiary, too. I always have trouble deciding between ‘old’ and ‘new’ options…and I actually think of them like that. Sometimes, once I associate two things, I like them together all the time. Some foods, for example. But I think I also try to resist and I go out of my way to choose/do things I usually wouldn’t…because I don’t trust my Si either.

    (At the same time, though, Si is crucial for me. The Fi of INFPs and the Ti of INTPs are both judging functions. Si helps both types to remember what they’ve already seen. I know that when I speak of arguments, I have a feeling that all debates follow the same pattern. I literally think, ‘I’ve seen this before. I always see this.’ I think that’s Si.)

    If you’re interested, there is this post. To me, it sounds very much like the Fi-Si equivalent of my Ti-Si.
    3 INTP

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    curiouser and curiouser bluestripes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
    If you’re interested, there is this post. To me, it sounds very much like the Fi-Si equivalent of my Ti-Si.
    once again, thanks a lot.

    (going to reply in more detail a little later in the afternoon - too tired to concentrate at the moment)

  9. #9
    curiouser and curiouser bluestripes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
    I think INFPs strive to understand themselves. INFPs are said to strive toward authenticity. I think that perpetual attempt to clarify one's inner self to oneself is the INFPs eternal quest. Such is the impression I get. I don't know if INFPs ever figure it out once and for all.
    that would be me. i’ve always been interested in opportunities to grow, to mature, to become more whole, more in touch with who i am. i know that these words are overused in our society and, for most people, they might not mean that much, but they have always had a strong resonance with me.

    when i was fifteen to eighteen years old, this interest reached the intensity of an obsession; i went through a period of metaphysical intoxication where this was the only topic i would discuss or think about most of the time. i had several more specific interests - the use of hallucinogens for what is called “consciousness expansion”, maslow’s concept of a healthy and mature individual, spiritual practices such as shamanic rituals, bhakti-yoga and christian contemplation/prayer and possible ways to combine them into a “personal religion” of sorts, jung’s method of analyzing dreams and psychotic experiences, treating or coping with mental illness through seeing it as an internal journey - all of which shared the same common goal. each of them has stayed with me to this day in a somewhat changed, tame form.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
    Of course, it could be just that you really don't know. NTs famously find it difficult to articulate what they're like inside. I certainly suffer from this. But I think this stems from actual ignorance as opposed to the uncertainty of the NFs. The NFs seem to know that what they're trying to figure out is quite complex. NTs just have no idea. Even those NTs who are a little in touch with their inner self seem to have but a vague idea of how it works and have some idea that it is a thing that acts of its own accord; quite mysterious.

    Do you fit into one of these? It can be difficult to tell, I think.
    it is. what makes it particularly dificult is the depression problem i’ve had since i was sixteen – i tend to have long (sub)depressive phases that last months at a time and are not too severe, but make me lose touch with my emotions. at this point, distinguishing between this condition and any permanent changes to my personality that could have occurred over the years has become problematic.

    if i try to remember how i was before this started, it would seem that i am closer to the way you defined the INFP type (i.e., feels “something” that is complex and has many diverse shades that elude definition). i would still confuse different emotions and had trouble conveying them to others, but i felt a lot and i lived immersed in those feelings. i don’t think i even cared much that i could not describe them well; they were at the core of my being, and this was the one thing that mattered.

    now i am much more indifferent/calm in a way that doesn’t seem natural, and more distant from myself. i have started to use logic more extensively to compensate for the emotional “gaps” i have developed, where i feel nothing (no matter how much i would like to) or my feelings are too indecipherable and strange, even to me. so, in a sense, i guess i feel more similar to the way you or other xNTx types usually do. this could explain why i have started to test as INTP rather than INFP. whether this is merely my adult personality, and thus what i was supposed to become, or a result of the affective disorder is anyone’s guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozle View Post
    Well, actually, for the INFP, Si is the tertiary function. If I understand correctly, the four main functions (Fi, Ne, Si, Te) all reinforce one another, especially if they share a realm—introvertedness or extravertedness. So Fi is reinforced by Si. The functions don’t just work separately; they work together, too.
    this makes perfect sense.

    in some respects, i am very rigid. i prefer to eat the same food every day. i have my favorite pub and italian restaurant where i order “the same” each time i and my friends go there for dinner. in my mid to late teens, i also used to combine foods according to their color, scent and i’m not sure what else (for example, i thought that scrambled eggs went with fried chicken, whereas grainy curds went with merengues, but not vice versa). for the same day, i would try to select only foods that shared the same group, and would be upset if my eating schedule was disrupted. most of those rules would probably seem bizarre to anyone other than myself. i still observe some of them, at least when i can afford choosing between foods, but i’m not as particular about this as i was once.

    i wear the same clothes for weeks, sometimes months on end. this feels about as natural as it could be. in fact the idea about wearing a new set of clothing every day, or every other day makes me uncomfortable. whatever i choose to wear becomes as a second skin to me; switching to something else too soon feels almost like peeling off a part of myself. a few years ago, i was translating two of someone’s autobiographies, and there was a passage i remembered because of the way it made me react. it was something to the extent of, "back then, all i had to wear throughout those six months were two dresses, and you can imagine how hard this is for a woman!" the fact was, i could not. i mean, i did realize that in our culture, one is expected to change outfits more often to appear attractive, but it still made little internal sense. i did not understand why it would be hard, and i did not know why anyone would want to have more than two sets of clothing. i have had most of mine for several years and was upset when i had to throw them out once they had become completely worn-down.

    i like music, but listen to a limited number of bands/artists (no more than eight, if i’m not to take into account the random chillout tunes i keep finding through a file searching engine). i’m not even sure i can really call any of them my “favorites”, because i select several of their songs to obsess over and ignore the rest. usually, if i like a song, i upload it into my mp3 player, put it on replay mode and listen to it every day until the imagery it had given me initially starts to fade (or the music loses its meaning entirely and becomes no more than an irritating din).

    now and then, i become obsessed with a particular book, tv show or theory, which i will then analyze and re-analyze repeatedly until i know it inside and out, down to the most minute aspects. with time, these special interests stabilize, their obsessive quality diminishes and they migrate into "ordinary" interest territory.

    but then these are a few isolated areas. also, i am not as strict about any of this as some other people i know. i think this is partly a preference for sameness (though not to the point of going into meltdown mode if i can’t go for the old, familiar option) and partly just not caring enough. if i cannot buy any of the food i like, i will eat whatever i am offered. my ex-boyfriend used to tease me, in a good-natured manner, about eating anything including things one would normally think of as inedible. and i can wear whatever is at hand (even if badly mismatched, dusty, and/or having stains or cat hairs on it – the likelihood is, i won’t notice).

    it's interesting that you refer to this as having to choose between "old" vs. "new" options - i usually think about it in similar terms, and i am also wary of indulging that desire for sameness too much. a certain degree of familiarity is necessary if i want to feel comfortable and be creative, as it is for everyone, i suppose, but i do have an unhealthy inclination toward passivity. if i allow myself to, i will do nothing but sit around and rigorously cling to the status quo. this has happened in the past. when i was an undergraduate student, i was thrown out of university over to a misunderstanding i did nothing to resolve, and, instead of attempting to return next year (which later proved to be much easier than i had thought), i spent several years working from home as a translator. i did little, apart from household chores and some modern greek, and if i did go out, it was only for a short stroll with one of my former university friends or to a bible study group. i became so rooted in my routines and so fond of that simple lifestyle, which i liked, deep down, that it took a considerable effort to become more active again. i don't want the same to happen in the future.
    Last edited by bluestripes; 11-12-2011 at 06:01 PM.

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    once again, thanks a lot.
    No problem .

    S things first:

    in some respects, i am very rigid. i prefer to eat the same food every day. i have my favorite pub and italian restaurant where i order “the same” each time i and my friends go there for dinner. in my mid to late teens, i also used to combine foods according to their color, scent and i’m not sure what else (for example, i thought that scrambled eggs went with fried chicken, whereas grainy curds went with merengues, but not vice versa). for the same day, i would try to select only foods that shared the same group, and would be upset if my eating schedule was disrupted. most of those rules would probably seem bizarre to anyone other than myself. i still observe some of them, at least when i can afford choosing between foods, but i’m not as particular about this as i was once.
    This is very interesting. But also pretty clearly not dominant Si so I feel we can be quite certain on that account—you’re not an Si-dom. My brother is an Si-dom. Si-dom is his primary form of understanding the world. Si extends beyond a fondness for habitual ways of doing things. I think only those types with Si as an lesser function could enjoy Si exactly like that. And, actually, I get the impression that Si-doms tend not even to be aware that they are doing the same things. It is simply the way things are done; things are done because they work and you know they work. They do not think of it as repetition, per se. It is the other types who accuse Si-doms of that.

    i’m not even sure i can really call any of them my “favorites”, because i select several of their songs to obsess over and ignore the rest. usually, if i like a song, i upload it into my mp3 player, put it on replay mode and listen to it every day until the imagery it had given me initially starts to fade (or the music loses its meaning entirely and becomes no more than an irritating din).
    Haha, I can kind of relate. I don’t do it as intensely as you, I think. But I think I know what you mean.

    but then these are a few isolated areas. also, i am not as strict about any of this as some other people i know. i think this is partly a preference for sameness (though not to the point of going into meltdown mode if i can’t go for the old, familiar option) and partly just not caring enough. if i cannot buy any of the food i like, i will eat whatever i am offered. my ex-boyfriend used to tease me, in a good-natured manner, about eating anything including things one would normally think of as inedible. and i can wear whatever is at hand (even if badly mismatched, dusty, and/or having stains or cat hairs on it – the likelihood is, i won’t notice).
    If you wondered if Se was strong with you, I don’t think it is! Not as one of the dominant functions anyway. The Se-users really live in the physical world. Their primary form of stimulation and interest (or at least a big part of it) comes from the external world. I don’t know that they could stand this kind of behaviour. They might well drive themselves crazy.


    F/T things:
    now i am much more indifferent/calm in a way that doesn’t seem natural, and more distant from myself. i have started to use logic more extensively to compensate for the emotional “gaps” i have developed, where i feel nothing (no matter how much i would like to) or my feelings are too indecipherable and strange, even to me. so, in a sense, i guess i feel more similar to the way you or other xNTx types usually do. this could explain why i have started to test as INTP rather than INFP. whether this is merely my adult personality, and thus what i was supposed to become, or a result of the affective disorder is anyone’s guess.
    Hmm. I don’t know if this is the same thing but I get the sense that INFPs can go through something like this…a kind of disillusionment and a mistrusting of themselves and their dominant functions. In this state, their T function seems to become a kind of defence mechanism. I’m only speaking from what I see of INFPs talking about themselves. Many of them seem to go through a stage of typing as INTPs for whatever reason. It doesn’t help that the T/F binary seems to imply that Fs have no logic—which is, of course, not the case.



    As for the rest of the post, I am only a little acquainted with F as a dominant function. So I hesitate to say much about it. But…I’m going to suggest INFP. That is my strong feeling. The things you describe don’t make you exempt from the other types and only you can decide in the end but—INFP is what I’d pitch for. If you have anything more you want to talk about, go ahead.

    Oh, you could also check this out about Fi if you haven’t already.


    EDIT: Oh, yes. Here. From the link I provided: "When we use Feeling in an Introverted way, it operates as a kind of inner flame--a sense of personal values that may be difficult to explain or express directly but whose character informs our choices and inclinations." And this:
    'Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the attitude of judging things good or bad based on how they harmonize or clash with a living being's inner essence. That inner essence or soul, and how things in the environment get along with it or conflict with it, is knowable only first-hand--ultimately, only by that soul. It is known by attending to one's own emotions in response to things. What you like is good--for you, not necessarily good for others. What you don't like is bad--for you, not necessarily bad for others. Anything outside your own soul is irrelevant to evaluating anything or choosing your course in life.'
    This kind of thing is what I meant by getting to know oneself. If your experiments with hallucinogens etc was motivated by this kind of thing, then I would say it was Fi. I can't say, from where I'm standing, whether or not your experiments were motivated by these things. Only you can say, really. I just didn't want to say 'this sounds like Fi' or not because it's not as though different types can't get into those things for different reasons. Furthermore, other types can explore their Fi without necessarily being Fi-doms. So perhaps think about how much those ideas resonate with you.
    3 INTP

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