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  1. #1
    Senior Member typologywhore's Avatar
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    Default So, the 4w3 is a thing...

    Well, yeah. I self-typed as 4w5 upon discovering the enneagram a year or so back. In a thread recently Asterion opined that I came across more 4w3, which got me thinking; and after a renewed bout of reading/self-pondering, I'm thinking there's something in this. It'd be helpful to get others' perspectives on the matter, so I'll rough out my thinking on issues that are relevant to the distinction between the wings, and perhaps you'd be kind enough to tell me what you reckon I'd (obvs) like to reach a position where I'm fairly confident of my type.

    Conduct in social situations. The idea of the potential "public/private split" in less healthy w3s is painfully familiar; I have had periods where the gulf between my public persona (which wasn't markedly OTT, though, just very forced-light-hearted, compliant, and people-pleasing) and whatever shit was goin' down inside caused me a good deal of delicious, delicious angst
    One really notable thing that I can't believe didn't occur to me before - I don't find the privacy or reservation in social contexts (often assigned to the w5) relevant, really, beyond the degree that it enables interactions to run comfortably. I aspire to, and feel I am becoming capable of, complete emotional integrity in action and openness in communication. And - something I'm rewording from a w3 description that rang so brilliantly true - I want to provide a receptive space for others, where they can show their insecurities without fear of judgement, and, in doing so, allow them to work towards some kind of healing, or at least feel that they are heard. (4w5's - how do you relate to this? This last point was declared to be most pertinent to w3's, but is it? How much is a maintenance of privacy in social interactions important for you?)

    Intellectual interests and the idea of the "specialist". I've come to realise recently that intellectual issues and discussions don't interest me in and of themselves; I find them interesting when, and only when, they impinge on those [fairly narrow] conceptual/imaginative areas I've "marked out" as personally valuable. Put like that it maybe sounds like simple narcissism, but perhaps an example will help. I'm a literature student and (though I feel bad for it) find most of the concepts/texts the course touches on utterly boring/irrelevant . But in a class on Shakespeare the other day the topic of gender came up; and suddenly I was completely enthralled and loving it, and couldn't get into it enough...because gender, how it's constructed and perceived etc, is an issue I've "marked out" as belonging to me. In numerous places I've heard 4w3 referred to as "the specialist"; is this perhaps the sort of way of engaging with ideas/interests that the term is connoting?

    Self-presentation. The creation and maintenance of an "image" that adequately reflects my felt self is of great importance to me. I'm very concerned over self-presentation, to the degree where going out in public wearing something that's "ugly" or that I feel somehow gives others the wrong idea over what I'm like can leave me miserable and stewing in anxiety. A lot of my energy (and, indeed, time and money, haha) goes into "feeling out" an image that feels true for me (lol, yes, lots of feeling going on), and seeking to realise that. This is not something shallow to me, at all. It's a process that involves a sort of...excavation of the self, discovering it so it can be expressed. And there's an aspirational element, too: you can embody attributes that you want to possess, and thereby move closer to integrating them into the psyche.
    The visible manifestation of this: my style is very honed, and as perfect as I can get it; there's a tendency to "dress up", to be eye-catching and distinctive and a just little bit (or a lot :P) flamboyant. If you came across me in a public place you'd notice me, and that's how I like it :P

    Precise "tenor" of creativity. Certainly one reason why I initially went for 4w5 was that the descriptions do stress their possession of an especially personal, complex creativity, and with this there is sometimes a sense (implicit or explicit) that the 4w5 is somehow inherently "deeper". Fairly understandably, I think, I wanted to identify myself with this; but, upon reflection, this may have been dishonest. For one thing, I create [best] when I'm anticipating an audience. This post, for instance: the anticipation of it being read is invigorating me (more; sort of..freeing me, almost) to verbalise and develop ideas in the best possible way, whereas this wouldn't happen were I writing for myself only. For another, I don't completely identify with the idea of a completely self-fulfilling, exceptionally "idiosyncratic" creativity, as much as I kinda want to; I feel I need to express my creativity in a form that meets some need of others, and also ('tho it's pretty hard to admit) one that garners me the approval of others. Creative work is not so much an inner calling as a means of orienting myself in relation to others, and of working for them to create something beautiful. Dunno if the instinctual variants might be obscuring this issue, though, and the patterns I associate with the w5 actually being more sp-first tendencies...

    ...hmm. Hope the length of this doesn't seem too excessive. -blush- Just wanted to be thorough about the issues, I guess. Reading it back, it does seem like the pattern of the 4w3 is more predominant, but again, gaining others' perspectives/confirmation on the issue would be lovely.

    As such, opinions and comments are welcomed, and loved

    Bye for nao..

  2. #2
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    You seem like a 4w3 to me

  3. #3
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darling devotee View Post
    Well, yeah. I self-typed as 4w5 upon discovering the enneagram a year or so back. In a thread recently Asterion opined that I came across more 4w3, which got me thinking; and after a renewed bout of reading/self-pondering, I'm thinking there's something in this. It'd be helpful to get others' perspectives on the matter, so I'll rough out my thinking on issues that are relevant to the distinction between the wings, and perhaps you'd be kind enough to tell me what you reckon I'd (obvs) like to reach a position where I'm fairly confident of my type.

    Conduct in social situations. The idea of the potential "public/private split" in less healthy w3s is painfully familiar; I have had periods where the gulf between my public persona (which wasn't markedly OTT, though, just very forced-light-hearted, compliant, and people-pleasing) and whatever shit was goin' down inside caused me a good deal of delicious, delicious angst
    One really notable thing that I can't believe didn't occur to me before - I don't find the privacy or reservation in social contexts (often assigned to the w5) relevant, really, beyond the degree that it enables interactions to run comfortably. I aspire to, and feel I am becoming capable of, complete emotional integrity in action and openness in communication. And - something I'm rewording from a w3 description that rang so brilliantly true - I want to provide a receptive space for others, where they can show their insecurities without fear of judgement, and, in doing so, allow them to work towards some kind of healing, or at least feel that they are heard. (4w5's - how do you relate to this? This last point was declared to be most pertinent to w3's, but is it? How much is a maintenance of privacy in social interactions important for you?)

    Intellectual interests and the idea of the "specialist". I've come to realise recently that intellectual issues and discussions don't interest me in and of themselves; I find them interesting when, and only when, they impinge on those [fairly narrow] conceptual/imaginative areas I've "marked out" as personally valuable. Put like that it maybe sounds like simple narcissism, but perhaps an example will help. I'm a literature student and (though I feel bad for it) find most of the concepts/texts the course touches on utterly boring/irrelevant . But in a class on Shakespeare the other day the topic of gender came up; and suddenly I was completely enthralled and loving it, and couldn't get into it enough...because gender, how it's constructed and perceived etc, is an issue I've "marked out" as belonging to me. In numerous places I've heard 4w3 referred to as "the specialist"; is this perhaps the sort of way of engaging with ideas/interests that the term is connoting?

    Self-presentation. The creation and maintenance of an "image" that adequately reflects my felt self is of great importance to me. I'm very concerned over self-presentation, to the degree where going out in public wearing something that's "ugly" or that I feel somehow gives others the wrong idea over what I'm like can leave me miserable and stewing in anxiety. A lot of my energy (and, indeed, time and money, haha) goes into "feeling out" an image that feels true for me (lol, yes, lots of feeling going on), and seeking to realise that. This is not something shallow to me, at all. It's a process that involves a sort of...excavation of the self, discovering it so it can be expressed. And there's an aspirational element, too: you can embody attributes that you want to possess, and thereby move closer to integrating them into the psyche.
    The visible manifestation of this: my style is very honed, and as perfect as I can get it; there's a tendency to "dress up", to be eye-catching and distinctive and a just little bit (or a lot :P) flamboyant. If you came across me in a public place you'd notice me, and that's how I like it :P

    Precise "tenor" of creativity. Certainly one reason why I initially went for 4w5 was that the descriptions do stress their possession of an especially personal, complex creativity, and with this there is sometimes a sense (implicit or explicit) that the 4w5 is somehow inherently "deeper". Fairly understandably, I think, I wanted to identify myself with this; but, upon reflection, this may have been dishonest. For one thing, I create [best] when I'm anticipating an audience. This post, for instance: the anticipation of it being read is invigorating me (more; sort of..freeing me, almost) to verbalise and develop ideas in the best possible way, whereas this wouldn't happen were I writing for myself only. For another, I don't completely identify with the idea of a completely self-fulfilling, exceptionally "idiosyncratic" creativity, as much as I kinda want to; I feel I need to express my creativity in a form that meets some need of others, and also ('tho it's pretty hard to admit) one that garners me the approval of others. Creative work is not so much an inner calling as a means of orienting myself in relation to others, and of working for them to create something beautiful. Dunno if the instinctual variants might be obscuring this issue, though, and the patterns I associate with the w5 actually being more sp-first tendencies...

    ...hmm. Hope the length of this doesn't seem too excessive. -blush- Just wanted to be thorough about the issues, I guess. Reading it back, it does seem like the pattern of the 4w3 is more predominant, but again, gaining others' perspectives/confirmation on the issue would be lovely.

    As such, opinions and comments are welcomed, and loved

    Bye for nao..
    judging from this and some of your previous posts, you give the strongest 4w3 vibe of anyone on this forum
    Sx/Sp or Sx/So
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  4. #4
    Senior Member typologywhore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    judging from this and some of your previous posts, you give the strongest 4w3 vibe of anyone on this forum
    Sx/Sp or Sx/So
    ...wao. Okay. That's...kinda cool.. -grin-

    As regards instincts...-pats pockets- Nope. No So. Sorry.

    I'm Sx/Sp for definite. Though I can see how you're getting Sx/So from my posts, the So-flavour bits are kinda "an act" to overcompensate for feeling slightly insecure about communicating in a group sphere (because AAA GROUPS?!? WHAT IS THIS MAGIC D: ), and also a kinda aspirational thing, too (similar to 7-copying ). My IRL communication pattern is very much Sx/Sp, I think: loner-ish but/and seeking that powerful connection; thinking not in groups but individuals, and honing in on those with which I feel that spark or "pull"; isolating self for long periods but always (eventually) re-emerging because the kick and of a good connection is as necessary as breathing.

    EDIT: ...and now, having said that so emphatically, I feel like I'm ignoring other options just 'cause they're the ones I've not internalised /facepalm
    Could issues with social anxiety have skewed things, I wonder...?
    Still, think I'm Sx/Sp...Hmm...Perhaps the growing potency of the w3 could manifest in similar ways to the So instinct?
    -ponders-


    In any case, thank you for telling me what you think, it's very helpful

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