Why I Am Not An ENTP

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Immediate:

I took a test and my four top scores were - ESTJ, ENTJ, ESFJ, and ENFJ.

Detailed - Now to analyze what this means...

ESTJ - Te Si Ne Fi

Now this is probably what most people will vehemently reject me being; however, it may be the reason why I actually scored so high on ENTJ. If anything Te and Ne could be clouding my auxiliary function causing such a score. Intuitively we could say that on here it seems more likely that I use Ne instead of Ni.

My understanding of Ne and Ni will now be explained. Ne is imagining the world in a way that is beyond what the actual substance is, meaning you see something in an object that may not at first glance believe exists. Ni is a vision within yourself, extracting from the environment what is important to our vision. This abstraction is a combination of principles. Fundamental symbols exist within this world, we can observe all these principles as equal or we can extract what we believe is important within all of those that exist and this is what I believe Ni to be.

The reason why I believe that I use Se instead of Ne is simply because an object in my surroundings is considered to be that object and physically is only that object, but the idea of what the object is not always the same, what it is used for, what it means is not always the same. It changes when necessary. This is also the reason why I believe I don't use Si, because it isn't so much about homeostasis. A personal physical relationship between the object. This is why I believe I lose interest in objects, because it doesn't retain anything personal and it gets "boring".

So with this analysis I lose both ESTJ and ESFJ... We now have the latter two. ENTJ and ENFJ. We could easily just say I'm an ENFJ because of my apparent use of kindness, a wish for cohesiveness within my relationships. I have learnt to be a good person by my parents, and by my religion when I kept practicing it. They did teach me, but I left it because of the distress it was causing me. I felt... Inauthentic? I can't find the word (it might have been laziness as well which kept me from practicing my religion) I am searching for. There were contradictions and I hated giving up my freewill. I have morals.

The reason why I don't believe I use Fe. All my coworkers are xSFJ's of some sort. Women and men in some way use it (Fe). They don't like conflict in the work force. It's difficult to survive in this environment, but I find myself trying to cause a disruption and 'toughen' them up because they're being so nice and submissive and I feel like they're lying. They want to be mean, but they're constraining themselves and I find that annoying. If they want something done tell me, don't ask me. Sorry for the rant.

Te wants organization and I'm not so concerned with organization in everything because it's boring, but also I have been taught control is rarely in my hands and it has hurt me a lot, but it has also defused a great deal of situations. I want control, but I won't just grasp control unless someone else allows me or says they don't want it. It's confusing for me when I read descriptions. These are my thoughts on how I think. Te is objective... Which I have found is impossible as a person to believe. I can't imagine how anything that I am as of now is anything but subjective. I can't tell if people are my main focus. At work I try to talk to friends, but if a job is first then I do the job first and don't wish anyone to bother me until we can relax. When I am not working could careless what's going on, but once I have responsibility I can't help, but get S**t done.

 

[OrangeAppled]

You seem to grasp P functions better than J functions, which to me suggests you are a P (whether Pi or Pe dom). That or you're seeing Je with a Si slant, which unfortunately is how it's often portrayed....

Consider these basic definitions from Psychological Types; which criteria is the focus of your decision making?

-Sensation is to establish that something exists, thinking tells us what it means, feeling what its value is, and intuition surmises whence it comes and whither it goes.
-Feeling is primarily a process....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection.....
-In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value.
-Thinking is a psychological function which, following its own laws, brings the contents....into conceptual connection with one another.

You could say thinking defines what something is (unrelated to people; it is what it is whether people exist or not) & feeling determines significance (often in relation to being human).

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

You seem to grasp P functions better than J functions, which to me suggests you are a P (whether Pi or Pe dom). That or you're seeing Je with a Si slant, which unfortunately is how it's often portrayed....

Consider these basic definitions from Psychological Types; which criteria is the focus of your decision making?

-Sensation is to establish that something exists, thinking tells us what it means, feeling what its value is, and intuition surmises whence it comes and whither it goes.
-Feeling is primarily a process....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection.....
-In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value.
-Thinking is a psychological function which, following its own laws, brings the contents....into conceptual connection with one another.

You could say thinking defines what something is (unrelated to people; it is what it is whether people exist or not) & feeling determines significance (often in relation to being human).

This definition makes me think T is first. Sensation is definitely not last, but I can't tell if Intuition comes before. I'd say I love establishing reality... Dealing with what is is fascinating to me, but rearranging the reality into a unique structure seems even cooler (maybe I am forcing that sentiment?), which would make feeling last, in theory. I really enjoy this description of the functions.

 

[Elfboy]

you seem like an ENTP to me

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

you seem like an ENTP to me

Maybe (... Probably). Then I must use my Ti in tangent quiet often, if not immediately after every thought because rarely do I have a free-flow of thought.

 

[Elfboy]

Maybe (... Probably). Then I must use my Ti in tangent quiet often, if not immediately after every thought because rarely do I have a free-flow of thought.

you seem more like a Ti user to me than an Fi user. just based off of the people on this forum, I've noticed that ENFPs and ENTPs give off completely different vibes. your vibes are much more NTP-ish. ENFPs tend to be a little more intense while ENTPs are more detached and observational/data collecting.

 

[redcheerio]

I'm going to guess ENTJ. I had to force myself to read your explanations (no offence) even though they sound logical and intuitive, which probably means Ni. I grasp Ne immediately even by speed-reading, but Ni takes work for me to read. (I'm strong to extreme with Ne).

ENTJs can sometimes come across as ENFJs, but only in snippets. It's part of the reason they are often very successful - they are very organized, but they also can have great social skills.

I'm not a typology expert, though, so I could be wrong.

Edit: Here's a question for you - how important is efficiency to you? Not just at work, but in everything you do?

 

[Elfboy]

I'm going to guess ENTJ. I had to force myself to read your explanations (no offence) even though they sound logical and intuitive, which probably means Ni. I grasp Ne immediately even by speed-reading, but Ni takes work for me to read. (I'm strong to extreme with Ne).

ENTJs can sometimes come across as ENFJs, but only in snippets. It's part of the reason they are often very successful - they are very organized, but they also can have great social skills.

I'm not a typology expert, though, so I could be wrong.

Edit: Here's a question for you - how important is efficiency to you? Not just at work, but in everything you do?

how many ENTJs do you know? I'm not saying your wrong, but I definitely have not noticed this about the ENTJs I've known. I could see them mistyping as INTJs or ESTJs, perhaps ENTP if they had some sort of connection to 7 but definitely not ENFJs. the only ENTJs I've noticed looking like ENFJs are very healthy ENTJ 8s integrated to 2. other than that, ENFJs are warm, Fe-ish and almost feel like they're your mom when they aren't; ENTJs are cool, objective and it's clear that they are there for business (even if they're not and they're at a family reunion lol).

 

[redcheerio]

how many ENTJs do you know? I'm not saying your wrong, but I definitely have not noticed this about the ENTJs I've known. I could see them mistyping as INTJs or ESTJs, perhaps ENTP if they had some sort of connection to 7 but definitely not ENFJs. the only ENTJs I've noticed looking like ENFJs are very healthy ENTJ 8s integrated to 2. other than that, ENFJs are warm, Fe-ish and almost feel like they're your mom when they aren't; ENTJs are cool, objective and it's clear that they are there for business (even if they're not and they're at a family reunion lol).

That's why I said only in snippets. And OK, the ENTJs I know of, I know online. We have a few ENTJs on the ENTP forum. ENFJ was probably the wrong comparison.

What I meant was that they seem to have good enough social skills to rise quickly at work. They seem to be a very successful type to be. A few of them have confessed to sucking up to the bosses, as they see that as an important necessity for success at work. ENTPs, on the other hand, understand the importance of social skills, but often stubbornly refuse to accept it because it grates almost offensively against Ti's desire for and value of pure logic, often until they're over 35 or 40 yo. However, ENTPs who develop their Fe don't have quite the same problem accepting the importance of social skills.

There's a good chance I'm wrong anyway, since he doesn't really strike me as ENTJ. His explanation just sounded Ni to me, and ENTJ was the closest fit to everything else he described. Then again, he doesn't strike me as any of the other types he listed, either, so I'm at a loss, sorry.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I still, secretly, think you are an ENTP. You're young enough that your tert function hasn't started emerging completely yet, which may be what is throwing you off a bit.

Not that I have known for an exceptionally long time by any means... but I remember reading posts of yours before I started talking to you and I always just "got" that ENTP kind of vibe from you. I have had probably a good dozen ENTP friends over the years and while all are obviously unique and weirder in different ways ( ) than others... They all still have this sort of flavor to how they speak and interact that is very similar.

Anyways, just my same two cents that I toss in and in and in for you over and over ad naseum.

 

[Elfboy]

That's why I said only in snippets. And OK, the ENTJs I know of, I know online. We have a few ENTJs on the ENTP forum. ENFJ was probably the wrong comparison.

What I meant was that they seem to have good enough social skills to rise quickly at work. They seem to be a very successful type to be. A few of them have confessed to sucking up to the bosses, as they see that as an important necessity for success at work. ENTPs, on the other hand, understand the importance of social skills, but often stubbornly refuse to accept it because it grates almost offensively against Ti's desire for and value of pure logic, often until they're over 35 or 40 yo. However, ENTPs who develop their Fe don't have quite the same problem accepting the importance of social skills.

There's a good chance I'm wrong anyway, since he doesn't really strike me as ENTJ. His explanation just sounded Ni to me, and ENTJ was the closest fit to everything else he described. Then again, he doesn't strike me as any of the other types he listed, either, so I'm at a loss, sorry.

no need to apologize
anyway, the bolded actually looks more like Fi or enneagram 8 (in my case 7w8). not sucking up to your boss has more to do with "I will never do that because it goes against my integrity" or "never! I do it my way!" ENTPs I've noticed are a little more down for a little social/emotional manipulation, it's really them I could see being more confused with ENFJs than ENTJs. this is just based off of the people I've seen though.
also, this can have to do with being an enneagram 3 and caring about success over power. the ENTJs you mentioned were probably 3w4s

 

[Lady_X]

I'm going to guess ENTJ. I had to force myself to read your explanations (no offence) even though they sound logical and intuitive, which probably means Ni. I grasp Ne immediately even by speed-reading, but Ni takes work for me to read. (I'm strong to extreme with Ne).

ENTJs can sometimes come across as ENFJs, but only in snippets. It's part of the reason they are often very successful - they are very organized, but they also can have great social skills.

I'm not a typology expert, though, so I could be wrong.

Edit: Here's a question for you - how important is efficiency to you? Not just at work, but in everything you do?

haha ni is the same way for me too...it written in a different speed or something and it's hard for me sync up.

no response to the op tho...haven't yet read it haha

 

[redcheerio]

no need to apologize

anyway, the bolded actually looks more like Fi or enneagram 8 (in my case 7w8). not sucking up to your boss has more to do with "I will never do that because it goes against my integrity" or "never! I do it my way!" ENTPs I've noticed are a little more down for a little social/emotional manipulation, it's really them I could see being more confused with ENFJs than ENTJs. this is just based off of the people I've seen though.
also, this can have to do with being an enneagram 3 and caring about success over power. the ENTJs you mentioned were probably 3w4s

Actually, I think Ti and Fi can sometimes be confused for this reason.

But if you hang out on any ENTP forum for any length of time, you'll see ENTPs love to complain about having to suck up to bosses and people at work. They want logic and intelligence to be the only important factors in the workplace, since it is what they themselves value most. Most ENTPs, especially young ones, haaaaaaate the necessity to consider people's feelings when it contradicts logic. People seeking emotional validation of ideas that they can't explain logically look stupid to young ENTPs, and it makes young ENTPs angry and frustrated to have to deal with that all the time in day-to-day life. They want to speak the truth according to their view of it, according to logic.

This Ti desire to speak the truth sounds like Fi in a meta description of it, but when you see it in action, it looks very different than Fi.

 

[Elfboy]

Actually, I think Ti and Fi can sometimes be confused for this reason.

But if you hang out on any ENTP forum for any length of time, you'll see ENTPs love to complain about having to suck up to bosses and people at work. They want logic and intelligence to be the only important factors in the workplace, since it is what they themselves value most. Most ENTPs, especially young ones, haaaaaaate the necessity to consider people's feelings when it contradicts logic. People seeking emotional validation of ideas that they can't explain logically look stupid to young ENTPs, and it makes young ENTPs angry and frustrated to have to deal with that all the time in day-to-day life. They want to speak the truth according to their view of it, according to logic.

This Ti desire to speak the truth sounds like Fi in a meta description of it, but when you see it in action, it looks very different than Fi.

interesting, it appears this applies to Fi, Te and Ti. I'm ENFP and I would definitely complain about having to suck up to my boss. it just lacks integrity and I place high value in directness and honesty

 

[redcheerio]

haha ni is the same way for me too...it written in a different speed or something and it's hard for me sync up.

Yep, that's it for me, too!

no response to the op tho...haven't yet read it haha

...because it's taking some work to sync up and read it?

 

[redcheerio]

interesting, it appears this applies to Fi, Te and Ti. I'm ENFP and I would definitely complain about having to suck up to my boss. it just lacks integrity and I place high value in directness and honesty

Yep, ENTPs do, too. But ENTP honesty is based in Ti instead of Fi; logic instead of values. Yet Ti and Fi seem to tie together because Ti values logic.

Edit: ENTP forced to spend effort on anything they consider illogical and unfun ->

 

[Lady_X]

...because it's taking some work to sync up and read it?

haha no... i'm just suffering from short attention span atm

 

[redcheerio]

haha no... i'm just suffering from short attention span atm

I have short attention span probs with long Ni explanations, so thought that might have been what was happening with you.

 

[lunalum]

Ne and Ni really are like different languages. There's a certain flow that arises when the languages match up. But weirdly my detection of this isn't working so well with you.... it's like you are bilingual But you have to have a single native lanugage somewhere....

If you are ESTJ..... the Te/Ne loop thing might look appealing, but I would doubt that you could be an ESTJ even in those circumstances if your Si isn't even moderately high.

If you are ENTJ.... you would almost surely be primarily choleric in temperament, even if mixed with some other stuff, and you would have to have a pretty strong Ni-side to claim something along the lines that there is no objectivity.

I'm also not getting the way that you are describing the intuitive functions (maybe that in itself says something). The way you see Ne seems somewhat accurate but it's so abstracted as to be almost unrecognizable And of course objects are just objects, and once you run out of ways to play with them, the attachment is gone and they are boring again.

In summary:

 

[rav3n]

As usual, it's easier to pin what you're not, than what you are.

So, without much ado, you're not ESTJ or ENTJ. But you do strike me as some form of xNxP. One thing I have observed is that every time you retype yourself, your written "personality" changes to adapt to potential type.