What's My Instinctual Variant?

[Silveresque]

I'm starting to wonder if I might actually be So/Sx. I suppose I don't really care about comfort and security that much, and I really do want to find someone who's like me, who I can connect with and be intimate with. Before I was thinking I was Sx last because although I desire intimacy, I've never really been intimate with anyone, and I never talk about my feelings IRL. But maybe I just haven't found anyone I really trust that much yet, so I think I could still be Sx second.

Social/Self-pres

One might think that the energy of this subtype would be warmer and friendlier than that of the self-pres/social, but it doesn’t usually present that way. Because the social instinct is dominant, these Fives are much more aware of their role in the group. They are therefore more careful of their involvements with others. The social arena is more important and is invested with more energy, so these Fives will pull up faster and harder into self-pres mode if they should feel at all threatened. This will sometimes give others the impression of coldness. This subtype will center a lot of their intellectual interest around the workings of society, humanity or spirituality. This serves as their connection with people. By means of these abstract mental constructs, Fives of this subtype feel a sense of belonging socially, without having to be personally involved and invested. The healthier people of this subtype are, the more they are able to integrate their mental constructs with their actual experiences. They can really be content to adopt the role of “people watcher,” but they do it from a closer and closer perspective. Their blind spot revolves around the fact that they tend to convince themselves they can get along just fine in the observer role. It does feel safer to them. If they do have a few people relatively close to them, they can really strike a good balance between their need to withdraw and their need to connect to the larger social world.

This subtype could be seen as the most intellectual of type Five. The combination of the basic desire for knowing with the social instinct’s need to "fit in," makes people of this subtype want to find a niche as the expert. Their interest in structure, especially social structure, accentuates their natural inclination for acquiring knowledge. With the sexual instinct least developed, this subtype is in the position of having a strong pull towards understanding the workings of the world around them, without the emotional intensity of the sexual instinct setting up any distraction. These Fives fit the role of the scientist or professor quite well in this respect.

Social/Sexual

When reasonably healthy, people of this subtype can be very engaging (for a Five). They smile a lot and are often friendly. Their energy is quite different from the social/self-pres subtype because both the social and sexual energies push outwards, and so partly balance out some of the withdrawing tendencies of the Five. This doesn’t mean that people of this subtype are necessarily any healthier however. The outgoing energy is not the result of true integration to Eight but is the result of the compulsive pull of the instincts. People of this subtype are usually warm and when feeling secure are likely to let people in and even to initiate contact. When they feel insecure however, they can actually go to the other extreme and be very shy. For this reason, people of this subtype could easily be mistyped; those Fives who withdraw from social contact because of feelings of insecurity, might not seem like social subtypes at all. It might not be obvious that they actually very much desire contact. For people of this subtype, the social instinct actually works as a release value for the sexual component. When relaxed and comfortable with others, the sexual instinct can easily be seen.


People of this subtype are very aware of how they “fit in,” and also experience the sexual drive of wanting to connect with intimates. Like other social/sexual subtypes, they have the tendency to cultivate many relationships. They want to be liked by everyone, but being Fives they also tend to hold a part of themselves back for fear of rejection or of being overwhelmed by the demands of the relationship. This subtype of Five is more likely to fear rejection than the other subtypes of Five. Because both of the dominant instincts are focused on people, any failure in the realm of interpersonal relationships triggers a fear that there is no safety in the world. Personality systems like the Enneagram function as tool to help this subtype of Five to feel safe in the world. People of this subtype tend to think that the more they understand people, the less chance they have of being rejected. This tends to be a blind spot for people of this subtype as they don’t see that what will actually help them to become healthier is gaining more life experience. This will help them to see that their world will not come to an end with a little rejection.

Something I'm wondering about is "When relaxed and comfortable with others, the sexual instinct can easily be seen." What exactly does the sexual instinct look like in a 5?

 

[VagrantFarce]

I don't think what you highlighted really relates much to the instincts specifically - they seem far too applicable to Fives in general. In fact, those descriptions are pretty crap altogether - I don't think they make a lot of effort in making a real distinction.

From what I can gather: Sexual detachment is all about hoarding and acting upon intimate secrets, as well as establishing confidentiality - "is it safe to share my knowledge with you". Avarice for allure and intimacy can express itself in obtaining and keeping secrets or confidential information, either for oneself or between trusted confidantes. As always, this detachment can become a trap: the allure of "secrets" and "confidential information" can become effective substitutes for genuine intimacy and merging.

 

[sleuthiness]

I strongly question the notion that you're an intp.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I strongly question the notion that you're an intp.

Coming from you, that's a pretty good sign that he is a true INTP actually.

 

[Hazashin]

Coming from you, that's a pretty good sign that he is a true INTP actually.

*she

I made the same mistake when I first saw her posting.

Sorry about that RevlisZero. :/

 

[Silveresque]

I strongly question the notion that you're an intp.

Why is that?

Coming from you, that's a pretty good sign that he is a true INTP actually.

Lol, I'm actually a girl. Everyone assumes I'm a guy for some reason. Is it the picture? The name?

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Lol, I'm actually a girl. Everyone assumes I'm a guy for some reason. Is it the picture? The name?

Yes, I guess "zero" sound very masculine.

 

[Silveresque]

Yes, I guess "zero" sound very masculine.

I suppose. But it's a number! Numbers should be neutral! Especially zero. Oh well.

 

[Hazashin]

Lol, I'm actually a girl. Everyone assumes I'm a guy for some reason. Is it the picture? The name?

Because the cat looks masculine/male.

 

[Silveresque]

Because the cat looks masculine/male.

Really? I thought I picked a pretty neutral picture.

 

[Hazashin]

Really? I thought I picked a pretty neutral picture.

Nope. But that's okay. I think you should keep it. I like it very much.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I suppose. But it's a number! Numbers should be neutral! Especially zero. Oh well.

In french, 0 is a maculine name, we say "un zéro" and not "une zéro".

Really? I thought I picked a pretty neutral picture.

It's a basic rule of forum that if a member seem "gender neutral" it is assume that it's a dude.

But actually, this cat seem very feminine now I know you are a girl.

 

[Silveresque]

Question: Do Sp/Sx 4's have to be competitive, jealous, and flamboyant? I'm not any of those things AT ALL, but I have a strong desire for intimacy and merging, and I want to be able to connect with people on a deeper level.

 

[Mal12345]

Question: Do Sp/Sx 4's have to be competitive, jealous, and flamboyant? I'm not any of those things AT ALL, but I have a strong desire for intimacy and merging, and I want to be able to connect with people on a deeper level.

http://ocean-moonshine.net/e1428573...er_op=view_page&PAGE_id=26&MMN_position=84:80
'When Fours of this subtype are healthy, they find that they can form relationships without feeling as though they are sacrificing authenticity. They no longer feel that they have to automatically define themselves as "different from others," as outside the group. They are able to see the ways in which their emotionality might cloud their better judgment and to use that insight to establish equilibrium.'

 

[wolfy]

Really, with the instincts there is only a slight difference. Mine go sp/sx/so, but the difference is so small as to make the difference useless. Probably for the best, better to have access to all the tools in the shed.

 

[Silveresque]

http://ocean-moonshine.net/e1428573...er_op=view_page&PAGE_id=26&MMN_position=84:80
'When Fours of this subtype are healthy, they find that they can form relationships without feeling as though they are sacrificing authenticity. They no longer feel that they have to automatically define themselves as "different from others," as outside the group. They are able to see the ways in which their emotionality might cloud their better judgment and to use that insight to establish equilibrium.'

That never really stood out to me before, but now that you've brought it up, it actually does fit me pretty well.

Really, with the instincts there is only a slight difference. Mine go sp/sx/so, but the difference is so small as to make the difference useless. Probably for the best, better to have access to all the tools in the shed.

Yeah, true.

 

[Mal12345]

http://ocean-moonshine.net/e1428573...er_op=view_page&PAGE_id=33&MMN_position=86:80
"With this subtype, a lot of energy revolves around the issue of boundaries. Sexual/self-pres Fives tend to forge strong connections quickly and deeply, but if they feel betrayed, begin to feel overwhelmed, or if they feel that the connection doesn’t serve their true needs, can seem to cut the connection precipitously and “go cold.” They have high standards for significant others. They must feel that they can share their emotions with a significant other without being judged. This is their private world that they share. Relationships can be difficult, because individuals of this subtype will still want their own space and alone time, while at other times will want intense connection. Because the social instinct is least developed, this subtype is not very concerned with how others perceive them (except their intimates). This subtype is deceptive in that they may not seem to be especially intense - until they are engaged in a conversation they find interesting. Then the intensity and emotion become apparent. The internal struggle for this subtype is similar to that of the self-pres/sexual, but more energized and volatile, and getting to know this subtype means getting to know that."

That sounds more like me than any other stacking description on that page. The differences between types are clearly laid out and distinct.

 

[Mal12345]

That never really stood out to me before, but now that you've brought it up, it actually does fit me pretty well.

Well I'll admit, I had to take it on faith at first, but I only did so because the site ITSELF is very impressive in its enneagram knowledge. And I came onto this forum thinking stackings were a waste of time, until this site came to my attention.

But it was difficult to discern one stacking from another, at first. Now the differences are much clearer as the pattern stands out more and more.

 

[Silveresque]

Well I'll admit, I had to take it on faith at first, but I only did so because the site ITSELF is very impressive in its enneagram knowledge. And I came onto this forum thinking stackings were a waste of time, until this site came to my attention.

But it was difficult to discern one stacking from another, at first. Now the differences are much clearer as the pattern stands out more and more.

I think I get it now. It's not just about the descriptions, it's about the growth as well.

When healthy, these Fours can be very productive; when less healthy they might suffer from boughts of melancholy or self pity. The strong self-pres instinct however often helps these individuals to recognize how their state of mind is impacting their health and well being. This enables them to become action oriented.

I actually think this one (Sp/So) fits me best. Although I wonder why this description seems to be only about Sp and not the So aspect, while the Sp/Sx growth part seems to be related to So?

 

[Mal12345]

I think I get it now. It's not just about the descriptions, it's about the growth as well.

Sometimes this references healthy and unhealthy types.

I actually think this one (Sp/So) fits me best. Although I wonder why this description seems to be only about Sp and not the So aspect, while the Sp/Sx growth part seems to be related to So?

I don't know, but a solution would be to read up on the So/Sp variant.