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Type my friend?

SilkRoad

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I have an idea of what type my friend is, but I’ll put it at the end of this post, so you can form your own conclusions first. ;)


-People being consistent and considerate (especially considerate) is very important to her. She gets really upset about bad behaviour, people being users and such.
-Very private about romantic feelings and the like; she definitely likes men, but dates very little (like me and many of my friends, though, as we tend to take relationships ultra-seriously and anyway not meet many people we’re drawn to seriously) and is very reserved about anything to do with her romantic life or feelings. It’s something I can talk about with her in the abstract (ie. “men are commitment-phobes” :D) but not really beyond that.
-Quite often admits to being emotionally over-stretched, very sensitive, etc…but I think she only admits to this with a very few people, and to a casual observer, you wouldn’t know it. She looks reserved, unflappable and a bit tough.
-She can be very prickly and even surprisingly insensitive. I think it’s when she’s already feeling stressed or irritated, and especially somewhere like Facebook, she’s sometimes made unnecessarily mean comments that have surprised me. Not often, but still. It’s like sometimes she doesn’t know how she comes across. I have glimpsed her getting openly upset a few times but I think she had already been stressed and felt pushed to the limit.
-I think some people who don’t know her well find her chilly and prickly. I happen to know that she’s actually extremely caring and she’s one of the people in my life I consider like a rock. We’ve known each other six years and it was a slow developing friendship, ie. we were more like good acquaintances for two or three years but gradually got closer. She was one of the first people in this city who reached out to me, though. Although the friendship developed slowly I think there may have been an element of kindred spirits spotting each other.
-Loves culture, books etc. A similar mix to me, tending to the romantic, epic, classic, deep and thoughtful.
-She seems so down to earth but we’ve proved to have similar unconventional ideas about buildings holding an aura/feeling related to events that have happened there, psychic abilities, and these sorts of things.
-Funny sense of humour. We often text each other about weird happenings in our city (and there are a lot of them), funny things that local politicians have said and that kind of thing.



…I think she’s likely to be a fellow INFJ. I wonder about INTJ as well, but she seems too sensitive, under the reserved exterior – and isn’t that typical INFJ? She probably has a “colder” and “pricklier” exterior than I do but I know I can come across tough and sometimes chilly too, so… Plus, she’s English and she is my most English friend. She has the reserve, the tendency to slow-developing friendships, etc.
 

King sns

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ISFJ seems likely.
 

SilkRoad

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ISFJ seems likely.

Yeah, I thought also possible. I'm sure she's IxxJ. (as are many people I'm close to.) Why do you think more so than another IxxJ type?
 

King sns

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Yeah, I thought also possible. I'm sure she's IxxJ. (as are many people I'm close to.) Why do you think more so than another IxxJ type?

I did go back to read more ISFJ descriptions, as I typed her on a whim, (didn't read any INFJ, though). But, I guess she sounds kind of overwhelmed, which ISFJ's can become if they are unappreciated. (That was something that I remembered specifically.) Sensitive, very loyal to those that she loves. I don't see T at all. I'm not really sure where I would see N, that's difficult to type outwardly anyway. She also reminds me of a friend of mine who is a tested confirmed ISFJ. Sometimes I will type someone S over N just because of a sheer higher possibility of them being S.

Edit: Just read INFJ description. I'm still leaning towards S, but could go either way. Would have to know why she's so prickly, I suppose. Or more information in general.
 

SilkRoad

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I agree that N can be hard to spot or even define... I don't think I'm very good at typing people so it can be hard to say (though maybe that's better than being overconfident about it!). I do have a tendency to think that people I really click with must be N, but reality has shown that I have definite S types in my life who I click with like crazy.

She reminds me a bit of my mom who is almost certainly INTJ. However, my mom is ferociously devoted to a very small number of people, mostly her family, and not really that interested in the rest of humankind. ;) That's not really what this friend is like. I agree she seems more F, certainly the sensitivity and tendency to feel very hurt. My mom is more likely to get mad and superior than hurt, while my dad is more like me (ISFJ or INFJ, I think) and totally internalizes things and feels hurt for a long time if it's a serious situation.

She's somewhat like one of my best friends back home who is either ISFJ, or an F-ish ISTJ (really not sure, I'd almost say ISxJ.)

I think if she's ISFJ she's N-ish, much as I am an S-ish INFJ...though that may not fit in so well with function theory ;)
 

King sns

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I agree that N can be hard to spot or even define... I don't think I'm very good at typing people so it can be hard to say (though maybe that's better than being overconfident about it!). I do have a tendency to think that people I really click with must be N, but reality has shown that I have definite S types in my life who I click with like crazy.

She reminds me a bit of my mom who is almost certainly INTJ. However, my mom is ferociously devoted to a very small number of people, mostly her family, and not really that interested in the rest of humankind. ;) That's not really what this friend is like. I agree she seems more F, certainly the sensitivity and tendency to feel very hurt. My mom is more likely to get mad and superior than hurt, while my dad is more like me (ISFJ or INFJ, I think) and totally internalizes things and feels hurt for a long time if it's a serious situation.

She's somewhat like one of my best friends back home who is either ISFJ, or an F-ish ISTJ (really not sure, I'd almost say ISxJ.)

I think if she's ISFJ she's N-ish, much as I am an S-ish INFJ...though that may not fit in so well with function theory ;)


Yea, she doesn't sound like your stereotypical duty filled task oriented ISFJ. I'm not sure an interest in auras and psyche type things necessarily make you N though. For me, Ni is really hard to see and define in people, it's just kind of a.... "vibe", (so even harder if I'm typing online.) Need more info, I guess. It's hard to box people in this way, so I understand what you mean about "Nish" S's. Sounds to me like just interests, though.
 

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I do love IxxJs generally. Everyone in my family is definitely IxxJ - me (INFJ), my mom (INTJ), dad (ISFJ or INFJ or just maybe an F-ish ISTJ), brother (ISTJ). And I tend to gravitate to them in friendship. All other combinations like ExxP, ExxJ, IxxP present more challenges for me in friendships and relationships.

Ni is indeed very hard to see and define. I feel like it should be easier given that I'm convinced I'm an Ni user. But everyone seems to have a different definition and a different way of spotting it, and I never bought the "I can see it in the eyes" sort of thing ;) To me it has to do with instinctive use of symbols, glimpses of below-the-surface connections that are not evident to many, and use of metaphor.

My friend does seem to have an instinctive understanding of metaphoric language which I use a lot of, and I think that can be one indicator. Then again - it's not like S-types can't understand or use metaphor. It's just the use of it routinely for expressing yourself and a quick understanding of what the other person is trying to say when a lot of people would stare at you blankly ;) .
 

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What are the names of the books she reads? Which authors? I'm leaning toward INFJ but looking for some more evidence to push me over.
 

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What are the names of the books she reads? Which authors? I'm leaning toward INFJ but looking for some more evidence to push me over.

Hmm... She has fairly wide tastes as do I. On the literary side. A few that she loves are Middlemarch (George Eliot), A Time of Gifts (classic travel book, Patrick Leigh Fermor), books by Ursula le Guin and Tolkien, The Help by Kathryn Stockett... She also likes poetry, probably more on the Keats/Shelley side of things. I'm into some pretty obscure and abstruse stuff, I think she likes it a bit more accessible, but that may be generalizing.

I have to say I don't find using specific books, movies etc to help typing people very useful...though you may have had more success, I don't know! I mean, I thought someone who read philosophy and poetry etc was a likely INTJ...then thought maybe ENTJ...he turned out to be ESTJ. He just had a very ESTJ approach/outlook on the stuff he read. And an N will have a more N response. If that makes sense. My friend likes a bit of escapism and insight into human nature, I think much as I do.
 

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ISFJ with focus on F rather than S.
 

SilkRoad

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Shortsie: just saw your question about why she's prickly, etc. I think it's a defensive thing, she would probably rather keep a lot of people at a distance, because some people have disappointed her and she really feels that. It's not that she's prickly a whole lot. Just that when she is, it's sometimes surprised me, or seems a bit much or a bit insensitive. And, she's likelier to be a bit snappy if she's stressed, which I certainly relate to.

She can be quite passionate about things: travel, books, how mean people can be ;) but certainly not in a jumping up and down waving her arms way. I know her better now so I can tell when she's getting more excited about things. I'd say I get more obviously excited about things.

Not sure if it helps with ISFJ vs INFJ, though. I think either could have a cool/prickly exterior, perhaps a bit more likely to be INFJ? I'm not too sure what enneagram she'd be, if anyone wants to weigh in on that it would be interesting too! I think the strongest possibilities are 1, 5, or 6...not sure about wings.
 

King sns

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Hmm... She has fairly wide tastes as do I. On the literary side. A few that she loves are Middlemarch (George Eliot), A Time of Gifts (classic travel book, Patrick Leigh Fermor), books by Ursula le Guin and Tolkien, The Help by Kathryn Stockett... She also likes poetry, probably more on the Keats/Shelley side of things. I'm into some pretty obscure and abstruse stuff, I think she likes it a bit more accessible, but that may be generalizing.

I have to say I don't find using specific books, movies etc to help typing people very useful...though you may have had more success, I don't know! I mean, I thought someone who read philosophy and poetry etc was a likely INTJ...then thought maybe ENTJ...he turned out to be ESTJ. He just had a very ESTJ approach/outlook on the stuff he read. And an N will have a more N response. If that makes sense. My friend likes a bit of escapism and insight into human nature, I think much as I do.

Yea, I agree with that. In years of trying to get to know people. Type them. (Whether it's with temperaments, enneagram, or type,) it's not about what you do, watch, say, or read, it's about why you do those things. And so you can have the same result from two different people coming from two different perspectives. Sometimes certain actions result from certain thought processes, and that is easier for us to measure, hence type descriptions and trying to type people by behaviors. (It's just the easiest way, not the most accurate.)
 

King sns

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Shortsie: just saw your question about why she's prickly, etc. I think it's a defensive thing, she would probably rather keep a lot of people at a distance, because some people have disappointed her and she really feels that. It's not that she's prickly a whole lot. Just that when she is, it's sometimes surprised me, or seems a bit much or a bit insensitive. And, she's likelier to be a bit snappy if she's stressed, which I certainly relate to.

She can be quite passionate about things: travel, books, how mean people can be ;) but certainly not in a jumping up and down waving her arms way. I know her better now so I can tell when she's getting more excited about things. I'd say I get more obviously excited about things.

Not sure if it helps with ISFJ vs INFJ, though. I think either could have a cool/prickly exterior, perhaps a bit more likely to be INFJ? I'm not too sure what enneagram she'd be, if anyone wants to weigh in on that it would be interesting too! I think the strongest possibilities are 1, 5, or 6...not sure about wings.

Nah, this doesn't help at all. This one sounds particularly sensitive and easily offended, could be either. I feel like an ISFJ may have the sensitivity to the world around them, things that they see happening in their lives, misinterpreting some of the people and things that they care most about, and over extending themselves physically and emotionally. INFJ's would be more in their head, having a sense of indignity over things in general of the world, tragic news events or whatnot. (I'm just theorizing, not sure. INFJ's are ones that I type on gut instinct, possibly inaccurate to begin with, so it's hard to put it to words- and you would know better than me.)
 

SilkRoad

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Either way, she definitely has one of the major problems I have: looking calm and unflappable most of the time, but being sensitive and getting badly hurt when she does get hurt...and if you look calm most of the time, people can assume that nothing hurts you. I know my dad has the exact same problem and he too is probably either ISFJ or INFJ.

One thing that might fit ISFJ better: she does have a pretty keen recall for detailed facts on subjects that interest her (ie. British politics - ok, she also has the advantage of being British, but she just remembers stats and details that I wouldn't.) My ISTJ brother is unreal that way and it's stood him in good stead for his sports journalism career. My bff back home is like that too with her fascinations and she's either ISTJ or ISFJ. Anyway, it's a more Si thing. Not that it rules her out for INFJ though, but it might be more of an ISFJ point.

Myself, with my fascinations, I might remember a lot on topics that totally utterly fascinate me, but it tends not to be the statistics and nitty gritty details...more that I'll have an interesting insight or a weird perspective on the big picture, made up of all the little details mashed together in my own weird way ;) She might be like that too, but I'm not sure...hmm...she definitely has that recall for little details that I don't so much.
 

Mal12345

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Hmm... She has fairly wide tastes as do I. On the literary side. A few that she loves are Middlemarch (George Eliot), A Time of Gifts (classic travel book, Patrick Leigh Fermor), books by Ursula le Guin and Tolkien, The Help by Kathryn Stockett... She also likes poetry, probably more on the Keats/Shelley side of things. I'm into some pretty obscure and abstruse stuff, I think she likes it a bit more accessible, but that may be generalizing.

I have to say I don't find using specific books, movies etc to help typing people very useful...though you may have had more success, I don't know! I mean, I thought someone who read philosophy and poetry etc was a likely INTJ...then thought maybe ENTJ...he turned out to be ESTJ. He just had a very ESTJ approach/outlook on the stuff he read. And an N will have a more N response. If that makes sense. My friend likes a bit of escapism and insight into human nature, I think much as I do.

The ISTJ type is known to enjoy works on philosophy, religion, maybe poetry too. So there is a type-specific element to this.
 

SilkRoad

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The ISTJ type is known to enjoy works on philosophy, religion, maybe poetry too. So there is a type-specific element to this.

My thoughts on that: there could be slight type tendencies in terms of what books, movies etc they like, but I think it's probably slight. Ie. there are probably more INTJs who like scientific treatises, and more ESFPs who like pop fiction, but the reverse could also be true.

We're all big readers in my family. I'm INFJ and I love travel writing, children's books, poetry, classics, well-written fantasy or thrillers (like Ursula le Guin and John Le Carre), history/current affairs - almost anything well-written. If there is a romantic element that's fine, but if it's unrealistic, sappy, or characters are very selfish I'll get annoyed. My mom (INTJ) read most of the classics (mostly fiction, but also philosophy, etc) when younger and now reads more mysteries and bestsellers, but more on the literary side. She keeps up with the bestseller/top 10 lists more than any of us. My dad (probably ISFJ) likes some classics/thrillers, history/economics, chess-related biographies and such as he's a former chess champion, a bit of philosophy etc. My brother (ISTJ) doesn't have a lot of time to read now, but he's always been fascinated by books on Communism and Nazism, thrillers like Frederick Forsyth, some bestsellers to keep up with what's hot, etc. If it has to do with Russia or Nazi Germany there's a very good chance he's interested. As children we both read loads of books about the Middle Ages, knights, etc, medieval-ish fantasy, and he introduced me to Sherlock Holmes. He did his master's degree thesis on Robin Hood in medieval literature.

I dunno, to me it's a very difficult way to type someone. I don't think a lot of my cultural tastes are very INFJ. I also love 80s hair metal, which has a lot to do with my brother's influence... ;)

I'm leaning toward ISFJ now for my friend but I think ISFJ and INFJ can resemble each other a lot. I'm sure I come across ISFJ sometimes but I'm also sure I'm INFJ.

Any more comments or questions welcome.
 

Mal12345

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My thoughts on that: there could be slight type tendencies in terms of what books, movies etc they like, but I think it's probably slight. Ie. there are probably more INTJs who like scientific treatises, and more ESFPs who like pop fiction, but the reverse could also be true.

We're all big readers in my family. I'm INFJ and I love travel writing, children's books, poetry, classics, well-written fantasy or thrillers (like Ursula le Guin and John Le Carre), history/current affairs - almost anything well-written. If there is a romantic element that's fine, but if it's unrealistic, sappy, or characters are very selfish I'll get annoyed. My mom (INTJ) read most of the classics (mostly fiction, but also philosophy, etc) when younger and now reads more mysteries and bestsellers, but more on the literary side. She keeps up with the bestseller/top 10 lists more than any of us. My dad (probably ISFJ) likes some classics/thrillers, history/economics, chess-related biographies and such as he's a former chess champion, a bit of philosophy etc. My brother (ISTJ) doesn't have a lot of time to read now, but he's always been fascinated by books on Communism and Nazism, thrillers like Frederick Forsyth, some bestsellers to keep up with what's hot, etc. If it has to do with Russia or Nazi Germany there's a very good chance he's interested. As children we both read loads of books about the Middle Ages, knights, etc, medieval-ish fantasy, and he introduced me to Sherlock Holmes. He did his master's degree thesis on Robin Hood in medieval literature.

That's the Si function, of course. You've gone full circle from saying type has nothing to do with literary tastes to giving me a perfect example of how type influences literary taste. An ISTJ friend of mine loves Hobbits, elves, dwarves - also X-men - but he hates science fiction with a passion. He draws a line at "plausible/implausible" in fiction, although in these genres it is all supposed to be relatively implausible. It depends on whether or not he can "see" its possibility, but he can't see any possibilities beyond the earth itself. People who love sci-fi can "see" a lot farther, as one would expect from iNtuitives. Hobbits are very earthy beings, aliens are not, as are Robin Hood and other Medievalist fantasies.

And yet the ISTJ still has a curiosity about intellectual matters. Perhaps it has to do with trying to figure themselves out.

I dunno, to me it's a very difficult way to type someone. I don't think a lot of my cultural tastes are very INFJ. I also love 80s hair metal, which has a lot to do with my brother's influence... ;)

I'm leaning toward ISFJ now for my friend but I think ISFJ and INFJ can resemble each other a lot. I'm sure I come across ISFJ sometimes but I'm also sure I'm INFJ.

Any more comments or questions welcome.

The INFJ idealizes love a lot more than the ISFJ. The ISFJ comes across as colder at first glance than the INFJ.

I just think it's more difficult to try figuring these things out through cognitive styles, because I can't read anybody's mind. And in order to pinpoint cognitive styles, I have nothing but external features of personality to guide me anyway.
 

SilkRoad

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We might have to agree to disagree a bit; I mean, I know what you're saying and like I said I think there are probably trends in what an ISFJ or INFJ or whatever would like, but there are too many other influences. I love fantasy when it's well executed but I don't feel it usually is - sci-fi does a lot less for me unless it is fantastically well executed and insightful. My INTJ mom's interest in sci-fi is nil, and she only has mild interest in fantasy. In a way it's hardest to tell what turns her on with literature. She has what I consider an odd habit of reading books she doesn't like much because she claims she's trying to get some insight out of them. Like, she's European but has lived in Canada for decades and claims she reads Canadian literature to get a handle on those perplexing Canadians. ;)

Then, my friend who is either ISTJ or ISFJ is a huge Star Trek fan, as well as loving Lord of the Rings. But she concentrates on the characters and human elements. That's what I mean about different types approaching it different ways.

Plus, I'm really hung up on good writing. Which may be somewhat INFJ but not exclusively. Bad or boring writing will kill an interesting plot, for me. My ISTJ brother feels similarly though with maybe slightly different criteria for good writing. My INTJ mom recognizes bad writing but is slightly more tolerant. (All three of us are writers ourselves, btw - my mom and bro are both journalists and I've had various things published too.) Not sure what the trends are there. And though I have strong opinions about "good writing" I also have to acknowledge it's partly a matter of taste which is shaped by many different things.

Look at someone like Marmie Dearest; if I remember right she's an English major, like me, and a probable ESFP. I don't think those are obvious matchups. The ESFPs I know would generally go more for popular writing or for more realistic/down to earth. But if you generalize too much you leave out possible variables and with something like this I think there are so many variables.

You do make a good point about ISTJ and plausibility, at least as a general thing. My brother was annoyed by The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas because he found some plot details so implausible. I was more touched by it on a sort of allegorical level and what it represented though I recognized that some of it was very improbable.

I just think so many other things feed into it. Influence of family and friends is a big one. Different people and types can read the same book and get something quite different from it.

I know what you mean about typing external personality. It's hard to know how another person thinks or feels even if they are quite open about it. It's so nebulous. I never understand how people meet someone once and size them up as ENFJ or INTP on a first meeting. Seems a bit overconfident. It's also easy to see what you want to see, one way or another.
 

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We might have to agree to disagree a bit; I mean, I know what you're saying and like I said I think there are probably trends in what an ISFJ or INFJ or whatever would like, but there are too many other influences. I love fantasy when it's well executed but I don't feel it usually is - sci-fi does a lot less for me unless it is fantastically well executed and insightful. My INTJ mom's interest in sci-fi is nil, and she only has mild interest in fantasy. In a way it's hardest to tell what turns her on with literature. She has what I consider an odd habit of reading books she doesn't like much because she claims she's trying to get some insight out of them. Like, she's European but has lived in Canada for decades and claims she reads Canadian literature to get a handle on those perplexing Canadians. ;)

Then, my friend who is either ISTJ or ISFJ is a huge Star Trek fan, as well as loving Lord of the Rings. But she concentrates on the characters and human elements. That's what I mean about different types approaching it different ways.

I can see that about the later Star Treks. In fact, those contain too much element of human interest for a hardcore sci-fi fan such as myself. One of them is a just space station soap opera, for God's sake. And too much yak yak yakkety yak. Even at the peak of my interest, DS9 would have only produced a yawn from me.

Anyway, I've always been on board with looking into personal motives for liking certain things. So when I ask what kind of books someone likes to read, that doesn't mean I am limiting the question to just that. There's a lot more to that 'iceberg' that can't be seen.

Plus, I'm really hung up on good writing. Which may be somewhat INFJ but not exclusively. Bad or boring writing will kill an interesting plot, for me. My ISTJ brother feels similarly though with maybe slightly different criteria for good writing. My INTJ mom recognizes bad writing but is slightly more tolerant. (All three of us are writers ourselves, btw - my mom and bro are both journalists and I've had various things published too.) Not sure what the trends are there. And though I have strong opinions about "good writing" I also have to acknowledge it's partly a matter of taste which is shaped by many different things.

I've been published too, for what it's worth. But it was non-paying work.

Look at someone like Marmie Dearest; if I remember right she's an English major, like me, and a probable ESFP. I don't think those are obvious matchups. The ESFPs I know would generally go more for popular writing or for more realistic/down to earth. But if you generalize too much you leave out possible variables and with something like this I think there are so many variables.

I have to start from generalities - they are called tendencies, not absolutes - and work my way back to particulars. This is called "deduction," and it worked for Sherlock Holmes. Otherwise, I would have to keep reinventing the facts of reality to make them fit the generalities, e.g., functions. And that's a huge problem with the thinking on these forums.

You do make a good point about ISTJ and plausibility, at least as a general thing. My brother was annoyed by The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas because he found some plot details so implausible. I was more touched by it on a sort of allegorical level and what it represented though I recognized that some of it was very improbable.

I just think so many other things feed into it. Influence of family and friends is a big one. Different people and types can read the same book and get something quite different from it.

I know what you mean about typing external personality. It's hard to know how another person thinks or feels even if they are quite open about it. It's so nebulous. I never understand how people meet someone once and size them up as ENFJ or INTP on a first meeting. Seems a bit overconfident. It's also easy to see what you want to see, one way or another.

Imagining one can type people at first glance is just a trait of the overzealous noob. I don't know anything about the pyjamas book you mentioned. But I can fully understand your brother's ISTJ reaction. If you stop and think about it, those initials really just describe a cognitive style. This type of cognition is very literal, very critical and judgmental possibly to the point of being prejudiced. Si functions in terms of presupposed biases. But these days this attitude is not exactly broadcast to the world. I know an ISTJ who will work side-by-side with Mormons, get along great with them like they're his best buddies, and then later whisper to me that he can't stand their church, their beliefs, their way of life, then go into great detail about why Mormonism is wrong, asking me how intelligent people can believe such tripe, etc.
 

Mal12345

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
14,532
MBTI Type
IxTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What I don't understand is what kind of evidence I am supposed to consider in making a type call. Let's say that 98% of ESFPs like pop fiction, while 2% of ESFPs enjoy science fiction. I would chance a call based on those kinds of odds. Saying you have found an exception to the rule only proves the rule. After all, you had to start with a rule in order to find an exception. :)
 
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