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Thread: Type my friend?

  1. #11
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Shortsie: just saw your question about why she's prickly, etc. I think it's a defensive thing, she would probably rather keep a lot of people at a distance, because some people have disappointed her and she really feels that. It's not that she's prickly a whole lot. Just that when she is, it's sometimes surprised me, or seems a bit much or a bit insensitive. And, she's likelier to be a bit snappy if she's stressed, which I certainly relate to.

    She can be quite passionate about things: travel, books, how mean people can be but certainly not in a jumping up and down waving her arms way. I know her better now so I can tell when she's getting more excited about things. I'd say I get more obviously excited about things.

    Not sure if it helps with ISFJ vs INFJ, though. I think either could have a cool/prickly exterior, perhaps a bit more likely to be INFJ? I'm not too sure what enneagram she'd be, if anyone wants to weigh in on that it would be interesting too! I think the strongest possibilities are 1, 5, or 6...not sure about wings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Hmm... She has fairly wide tastes as do I. On the literary side. A few that she loves are Middlemarch (George Eliot), A Time of Gifts (classic travel book, Patrick Leigh Fermor), books by Ursula le Guin and Tolkien, The Help by Kathryn Stockett... She also likes poetry, probably more on the Keats/Shelley side of things. I'm into some pretty obscure and abstruse stuff, I think she likes it a bit more accessible, but that may be generalizing.

    I have to say I don't find using specific books, movies etc to help typing people very useful...though you may have had more success, I don't know! I mean, I thought someone who read philosophy and poetry etc was a likely INTJ...then thought maybe ENTJ...he turned out to be ESTJ. He just had a very ESTJ approach/outlook on the stuff he read. And an N will have a more N response. If that makes sense. My friend likes a bit of escapism and insight into human nature, I think much as I do.
    Yea, I agree with that. In years of trying to get to know people. Type them. (Whether it's with temperaments, enneagram, or type,) it's not about what you do, watch, say, or read, it's about why you do those things. And so you can have the same result from two different people coming from two different perspectives. Sometimes certain actions result from certain thought processes, and that is easier for us to measure, hence type descriptions and trying to type people by behaviors. (It's just the easiest way, not the most accurate.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Shortsie: just saw your question about why she's prickly, etc. I think it's a defensive thing, she would probably rather keep a lot of people at a distance, because some people have disappointed her and she really feels that. It's not that she's prickly a whole lot. Just that when she is, it's sometimes surprised me, or seems a bit much or a bit insensitive. And, she's likelier to be a bit snappy if she's stressed, which I certainly relate to.

    She can be quite passionate about things: travel, books, how mean people can be but certainly not in a jumping up and down waving her arms way. I know her better now so I can tell when she's getting more excited about things. I'd say I get more obviously excited about things.

    Not sure if it helps with ISFJ vs INFJ, though. I think either could have a cool/prickly exterior, perhaps a bit more likely to be INFJ? I'm not too sure what enneagram she'd be, if anyone wants to weigh in on that it would be interesting too! I think the strongest possibilities are 1, 5, or 6...not sure about wings.
    Nah, this doesn't help at all. This one sounds particularly sensitive and easily offended, could be either. I feel like an ISFJ may have the sensitivity to the world around them, things that they see happening in their lives, misinterpreting some of the people and things that they care most about, and over extending themselves physically and emotionally. INFJ's would be more in their head, having a sense of indignity over things in general of the world, tragic news events or whatnot. (I'm just theorizing, not sure. INFJ's are ones that I type on gut instinct, possibly inaccurate to begin with, so it's hard to put it to words- and you would know better than me.)
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    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  4. #14
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Either way, she definitely has one of the major problems I have: looking calm and unflappable most of the time, but being sensitive and getting badly hurt when she does get hurt...and if you look calm most of the time, people can assume that nothing hurts you. I know my dad has the exact same problem and he too is probably either ISFJ or INFJ.

    One thing that might fit ISFJ better: she does have a pretty keen recall for detailed facts on subjects that interest her (ie. British politics - ok, she also has the advantage of being British, but she just remembers stats and details that I wouldn't.) My ISTJ brother is unreal that way and it's stood him in good stead for his sports journalism career. My bff back home is like that too with her fascinations and she's either ISTJ or ISFJ. Anyway, it's a more Si thing. Not that it rules her out for INFJ though, but it might be more of an ISFJ point.

    Myself, with my fascinations, I might remember a lot on topics that totally utterly fascinate me, but it tends not to be the statistics and nitty gritty details...more that I'll have an interesting insight or a weird perspective on the big picture, made up of all the little details mashed together in my own weird way She might be like that too, but I'm not sure...hmm...she definitely has that recall for little details that I don't so much.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Hmm... She has fairly wide tastes as do I. On the literary side. A few that she loves are Middlemarch (George Eliot), A Time of Gifts (classic travel book, Patrick Leigh Fermor), books by Ursula le Guin and Tolkien, The Help by Kathryn Stockett... She also likes poetry, probably more on the Keats/Shelley side of things. I'm into some pretty obscure and abstruse stuff, I think she likes it a bit more accessible, but that may be generalizing.

    I have to say I don't find using specific books, movies etc to help typing people very useful...though you may have had more success, I don't know! I mean, I thought someone who read philosophy and poetry etc was a likely INTJ...then thought maybe ENTJ...he turned out to be ESTJ. He just had a very ESTJ approach/outlook on the stuff he read. And an N will have a more N response. If that makes sense. My friend likes a bit of escapism and insight into human nature, I think much as I do.
    The ISTJ type is known to enjoy works on philosophy, religion, maybe poetry too. So there is a type-specific element to this.
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  6. #16
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    The ISTJ type is known to enjoy works on philosophy, religion, maybe poetry too. So there is a type-specific element to this.
    My thoughts on that: there could be slight type tendencies in terms of what books, movies etc they like, but I think it's probably slight. Ie. there are probably more INTJs who like scientific treatises, and more ESFPs who like pop fiction, but the reverse could also be true.

    We're all big readers in my family. I'm INFJ and I love travel writing, children's books, poetry, classics, well-written fantasy or thrillers (like Ursula le Guin and John Le Carre), history/current affairs - almost anything well-written. If there is a romantic element that's fine, but if it's unrealistic, sappy, or characters are very selfish I'll get annoyed. My mom (INTJ) read most of the classics (mostly fiction, but also philosophy, etc) when younger and now reads more mysteries and bestsellers, but more on the literary side. She keeps up with the bestseller/top 10 lists more than any of us. My dad (probably ISFJ) likes some classics/thrillers, history/economics, chess-related biographies and such as he's a former chess champion, a bit of philosophy etc. My brother (ISTJ) doesn't have a lot of time to read now, but he's always been fascinated by books on Communism and Nazism, thrillers like Frederick Forsyth, some bestsellers to keep up with what's hot, etc. If it has to do with Russia or Nazi Germany there's a very good chance he's interested. As children we both read loads of books about the Middle Ages, knights, etc, medieval-ish fantasy, and he introduced me to Sherlock Holmes. He did his master's degree thesis on Robin Hood in medieval literature.

    I dunno, to me it's a very difficult way to type someone. I don't think a lot of my cultural tastes are very INFJ. I also love 80s hair metal, which has a lot to do with my brother's influence...

    I'm leaning toward ISFJ now for my friend but I think ISFJ and INFJ can resemble each other a lot. I'm sure I come across ISFJ sometimes but I'm also sure I'm INFJ.

    Any more comments or questions welcome.
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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    My thoughts on that: there could be slight type tendencies in terms of what books, movies etc they like, but I think it's probably slight. Ie. there are probably more INTJs who like scientific treatises, and more ESFPs who like pop fiction, but the reverse could also be true.

    We're all big readers in my family. I'm INFJ and I love travel writing, children's books, poetry, classics, well-written fantasy or thrillers (like Ursula le Guin and John Le Carre), history/current affairs - almost anything well-written. If there is a romantic element that's fine, but if it's unrealistic, sappy, or characters are very selfish I'll get annoyed. My mom (INTJ) read most of the classics (mostly fiction, but also philosophy, etc) when younger and now reads more mysteries and bestsellers, but more on the literary side. She keeps up with the bestseller/top 10 lists more than any of us. My dad (probably ISFJ) likes some classics/thrillers, history/economics, chess-related biographies and such as he's a former chess champion, a bit of philosophy etc. My brother (ISTJ) doesn't have a lot of time to read now, but he's always been fascinated by books on Communism and Nazism, thrillers like Frederick Forsyth, some bestsellers to keep up with what's hot, etc. If it has to do with Russia or Nazi Germany there's a very good chance he's interested. As children we both read loads of books about the Middle Ages, knights, etc, medieval-ish fantasy, and he introduced me to Sherlock Holmes. He did his master's degree thesis on Robin Hood in medieval literature.
    That's the Si function, of course. You've gone full circle from saying type has nothing to do with literary tastes to giving me a perfect example of how type influences literary taste. An ISTJ friend of mine loves Hobbits, elves, dwarves - also X-men - but he hates science fiction with a passion. He draws a line at "plausible/implausible" in fiction, although in these genres it is all supposed to be relatively implausible. It depends on whether or not he can "see" its possibility, but he can't see any possibilities beyond the earth itself. People who love sci-fi can "see" a lot farther, as one would expect from iNtuitives. Hobbits are very earthy beings, aliens are not, as are Robin Hood and other Medievalist fantasies.

    And yet the ISTJ still has a curiosity about intellectual matters. Perhaps it has to do with trying to figure themselves out.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I dunno, to me it's a very difficult way to type someone. I don't think a lot of my cultural tastes are very INFJ. I also love 80s hair metal, which has a lot to do with my brother's influence...

    I'm leaning toward ISFJ now for my friend but I think ISFJ and INFJ can resemble each other a lot. I'm sure I come across ISFJ sometimes but I'm also sure I'm INFJ.

    Any more comments or questions welcome.
    The INFJ idealizes love a lot more than the ISFJ. The ISFJ comes across as colder at first glance than the INFJ.

    I just think it's more difficult to try figuring these things out through cognitive styles, because I can't read anybody's mind. And in order to pinpoint cognitive styles, I have nothing but external features of personality to guide me anyway.
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  8. #18
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    We might have to agree to disagree a bit; I mean, I know what you're saying and like I said I think there are probably trends in what an ISFJ or INFJ or whatever would like, but there are too many other influences. I love fantasy when it's well executed but I don't feel it usually is - sci-fi does a lot less for me unless it is fantastically well executed and insightful. My INTJ mom's interest in sci-fi is nil, and she only has mild interest in fantasy. In a way it's hardest to tell what turns her on with literature. She has what I consider an odd habit of reading books she doesn't like much because she claims she's trying to get some insight out of them. Like, she's European but has lived in Canada for decades and claims she reads Canadian literature to get a handle on those perplexing Canadians.

    Then, my friend who is either ISTJ or ISFJ is a huge Star Trek fan, as well as loving Lord of the Rings. But she concentrates on the characters and human elements. That's what I mean about different types approaching it different ways.

    Plus, I'm really hung up on good writing. Which may be somewhat INFJ but not exclusively. Bad or boring writing will kill an interesting plot, for me. My ISTJ brother feels similarly though with maybe slightly different criteria for good writing. My INTJ mom recognizes bad writing but is slightly more tolerant. (All three of us are writers ourselves, btw - my mom and bro are both journalists and I've had various things published too.) Not sure what the trends are there. And though I have strong opinions about "good writing" I also have to acknowledge it's partly a matter of taste which is shaped by many different things.

    Look at someone like Marmie Dearest; if I remember right she's an English major, like me, and a probable ESFP. I don't think those are obvious matchups. The ESFPs I know would generally go more for popular writing or for more realistic/down to earth. But if you generalize too much you leave out possible variables and with something like this I think there are so many variables.

    You do make a good point about ISTJ and plausibility, at least as a general thing. My brother was annoyed by The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas because he found some plot details so implausible. I was more touched by it on a sort of allegorical level and what it represented though I recognized that some of it was very improbable.

    I just think so many other things feed into it. Influence of family and friends is a big one. Different people and types can read the same book and get something quite different from it.

    I know what you mean about typing external personality. It's hard to know how another person thinks or feels even if they are quite open about it. It's so nebulous. I never understand how people meet someone once and size them up as ENFJ or INTP on a first meeting. Seems a bit overconfident. It's also easy to see what you want to see, one way or another.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    We might have to agree to disagree a bit; I mean, I know what you're saying and like I said I think there are probably trends in what an ISFJ or INFJ or whatever would like, but there are too many other influences. I love fantasy when it's well executed but I don't feel it usually is - sci-fi does a lot less for me unless it is fantastically well executed and insightful. My INTJ mom's interest in sci-fi is nil, and she only has mild interest in fantasy. In a way it's hardest to tell what turns her on with literature. She has what I consider an odd habit of reading books she doesn't like much because she claims she's trying to get some insight out of them. Like, she's European but has lived in Canada for decades and claims she reads Canadian literature to get a handle on those perplexing Canadians.

    Then, my friend who is either ISTJ or ISFJ is a huge Star Trek fan, as well as loving Lord of the Rings. But she concentrates on the characters and human elements. That's what I mean about different types approaching it different ways.
    I can see that about the later Star Treks. In fact, those contain too much element of human interest for a hardcore sci-fi fan such as myself. One of them is a just space station soap opera, for God's sake. And too much yak yak yakkety yak. Even at the peak of my interest, DS9 would have only produced a yawn from me.

    Anyway, I've always been on board with looking into personal motives for liking certain things. So when I ask what kind of books someone likes to read, that doesn't mean I am limiting the question to just that. There's a lot more to that 'iceberg' that can't be seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Plus, I'm really hung up on good writing. Which may be somewhat INFJ but not exclusively. Bad or boring writing will kill an interesting plot, for me. My ISTJ brother feels similarly though with maybe slightly different criteria for good writing. My INTJ mom recognizes bad writing but is slightly more tolerant. (All three of us are writers ourselves, btw - my mom and bro are both journalists and I've had various things published too.) Not sure what the trends are there. And though I have strong opinions about "good writing" I also have to acknowledge it's partly a matter of taste which is shaped by many different things.
    I've been published too, for what it's worth. But it was non-paying work.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Look at someone like Marmie Dearest; if I remember right she's an English major, like me, and a probable ESFP. I don't think those are obvious matchups. The ESFPs I know would generally go more for popular writing or for more realistic/down to earth. But if you generalize too much you leave out possible variables and with something like this I think there are so many variables.
    I have to start from generalities - they are called tendencies, not absolutes - and work my way back to particulars. This is called "deduction," and it worked for Sherlock Holmes. Otherwise, I would have to keep reinventing the facts of reality to make them fit the generalities, e.g., functions. And that's a huge problem with the thinking on these forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    You do make a good point about ISTJ and plausibility, at least as a general thing. My brother was annoyed by The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas because he found some plot details so implausible. I was more touched by it on a sort of allegorical level and what it represented though I recognized that some of it was very improbable.

    I just think so many other things feed into it. Influence of family and friends is a big one. Different people and types can read the same book and get something quite different from it.

    I know what you mean about typing external personality. It's hard to know how another person thinks or feels even if they are quite open about it. It's so nebulous. I never understand how people meet someone once and size them up as ENFJ or INTP on a first meeting. Seems a bit overconfident. It's also easy to see what you want to see, one way or another.
    Imagining one can type people at first glance is just a trait of the overzealous noob. I don't know anything about the pyjamas book you mentioned. But I can fully understand your brother's ISTJ reaction. If you stop and think about it, those initials really just describe a cognitive style. This type of cognition is very literal, very critical and judgmental possibly to the point of being prejudiced. Si functions in terms of presupposed biases. But these days this attitude is not exactly broadcast to the world. I know an ISTJ who will work side-by-side with Mormons, get along great with them like they're his best buddies, and then later whisper to me that he can't stand their church, their beliefs, their way of life, then go into great detail about why Mormonism is wrong, asking me how intelligent people can believe such tripe, etc.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    What I don't understand is what kind of evidence I am supposed to consider in making a type call. Let's say that 98% of ESFPs like pop fiction, while 2% of ESFPs enjoy science fiction. I would chance a call based on those kinds of odds. Saying you have found an exception to the rule only proves the rule. After all, you had to start with a rule in order to find an exception.
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