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  1. #31
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    I don't mind them, stereotypes that is. I'm sure I and everyone else has been one at some point. Not to mention stereotypes are just a generalization, it's only completely bad when you stereotype off a sample size of 1 (exaggeration - it could be any incredibly small number).

    I think in Beebe or Thomson theory Fe is the fifth function for introverted feeling dominants. I'm sure that means something here.
    First tertiaries, now quintenaries. If the purists want to "return to Jung," I couldn't find a better reason than that, with his mere three levels and no terts to fiddle around with, much less quints.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #32
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    If that's introverted feeling I'm changing my type.
    That reminds me: the ISFP type theory has always been the one that, for me, breaks the mold. There is something about the type that is so non-MBTI.

    I'm surprised somebody didn't point out that the poem doesn't talk about Fi values. But the fact of the matter is, I never see the ISFPs in real life talking about Fi values either.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #33
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I'll just keep plonking all the trolls until they become tired and leave.
    Just because someone's opinion differs from yours, doesn't make them a troll.
    You're starting to remind me of Victor.

  4. #34
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    @mal12345, am I missing something here? What exactly is your point? This is a serious, non-mocking question.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #35
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    @mal12345, am I missing something here? What exactly is your point? This is a serious, non-mocking question.
    At some point in the past, pre-forum, I used to analyze books using typology. And that's what I'm doing here to poems and videos. For example, the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant are dominated by introverted feeling. The characters often try to communicate feelings that they find difficult to put into words. They look for answers which involve them in a personal-growth struggle. They suffer from personal-values crises. People and even entire races evolve (or sometimes devolve) in their value-systems.

    Edit - the inhabitants of an entire city allowed themselves to be killed (committed suicide) over a personal-values crisis.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #36
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    At some point in the past, pre-forum, I used to analyze books using typology. And that's what I'm doing here to poems and videos. For example, the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant are dominated by introverted feeling. The characters often try to communicate feelings that they find difficult to put into words. They look for answers which involve them in a personal-growth struggle. They suffer from personal-values crises. People and even entire races evolve (or sometimes devolve) in their value-systems.
    OK, so this is an educational exercise for you?

    I have read the poem and pondered on it. Definitely there is a sense of isolation, of feeling misunderstood, of feeling compelled to put on a show despite that pain and experiencing strong emotions throughout those challenges. It does ring of adolescence, and indeed, scrolling down you can see the author is a 16 year old female.

    It seems you have come to the conclusion this is a manifestation of Fi re your previous post, "Not some Fi type? (Introverting feelings.)" Your post has the appearance of leading the witness, no?

    To me, the most Fi values-based statement in the poem is this:
    All I want is for one person to come up to me asking me how I'm doing...I'll say "I'm fine" and you'd respond saying "Tell me the truth."
    The poem rings of adolescent pain, perhaps a history of abuse in there I would be worried about, and the poem sounds like she's started self-abusing. There's an element in there that is concerning to me.

    Are you suggesting somehow that Fi manifests in this manner under stress? Or this is how Fi manifests in adolescent girls, or adolescent girls under stress?

    Would you agree that Fi is positioned as some stereotypical catch-all for emo-based expression in the first place?

    I would want to read more of what this girl has to share before I would type her. If I was typing the poem only, I would see it as more Fi under stress than Fe. But not because of emotionality per se, but because she wishes for that emotion to be acknowledged and understood.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #37
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    OK, so this is an educational exercise for you?
    Isn't it always? When do you ever see me popping off with a string of one-line insults for post after post?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I have read the poem and pondered on it. Definitely there is a sense of isolation, of feeling misunderstood, of feeling compelled to put on a show despite that pain and experiencing strong emotions throughout those challenges. It does ring of adolescence, and indeed, scrolling down you can see the author is a 16 year old female.

    It seems you have come to the conclusion this is a manifestation of Fi re your previous post, "Not some Fi type? (Introverting feelings.)" Your post has the appearance of leading the witness, no?
    Teach me how it's not Fi. That would be a nice change from the usual blurting out of an answer I commonly see around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    To me, the most Fi values-based statement in the poem is this:


    The poem rings of adolescent pain, perhaps a history of abuse in there I would be worried about, and the poem sounds like she's started self-abusing. There's an element in there that is concerning to me.

    Are you suggesting somehow that Fi manifests in this manner under stress? Or this is how Fi manifests in adolescent girls, or adolescent girls under stress?

    Would you agree that Fi is positioned as some stereotypical catch-all for emo-based expression in the first place?

    I would want to read more of what this girl has to share before I would type her. If I was typing the poem only, I would see it as more Fi under stress than Fe. But not because of emotionality per se, but because she wishes for that emotion to be acknowledged and understood.
    I thought we understood that it's about the poem, just as the example in my previous comment was to show that it was about that Fi series of books.

    As for the rest, I do not believe that being an Fi means making value-statements in every attempt to communicate. People aren't always aware of their personal values. An Fi teen might not be able to put them into words yet. All they are - is FEELINGS. Since they are feelings of a personal nature, that makes them individual, unique, thus difficult to express to others. They may "wear their heart on their sleeve," but its really a secret heart tattoo hidden somewhere beneath the clothing.

    That being said, "Would you agree that Fi is positioned as some stereotypical catch-all for emo-based expression in the first place?" The "Across the Universe" video I selected for the other thread seems rather Emo-based, but my call on it is Ni not Fi.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #38
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Isn't it always? When do you ever see me popping off with a string of one-line insults for post after post?
    Well, in all honesty you do come across in a kind of abrasive way. And to my eyes, sometimes it seems you are being insulting to other folks. And I did wonder if you had an agenda behind your post. Thought I would ask.

    Teach me how it's not Fi. That would be a nice change from the usual blurting out of an answer I commonly see around here.
    Emotions are not the sole domain of Fi. Therefore I can't disprove it any more than I could prove it. And then, would it be Fi or Fe dom, aux, tert ... ?? I don't think we have enough data. The poem is not enough for me.

    I thought we understood that it's about the poem, just as the example in my previous comment was to show that it was about that Fi series of books.
    I find it difficult to make that distinction. I find it challenging to separate the person from the expression. Perhaps that is an Fi thing. I think about how she must be feeling to write like that and translate that into an outer manifestation. And, aside from that "girl" really being a 55 yo pedo trying to solicit like-minded individuals into his deception, seems like a person who needs some guidance and tools to learn how to manage her inner emotionality.

    That being said, "Would you agree that Fi is positioned as some stereotypical catch-all for emo-based expression in the first place?" The "Across the Universe" video I selected for the other thread seems rather Emo-based, but my call on it is Ni not Fi.
    I watched the video but did not comment - did you choose it for the music or the animation (will check thread to see if that's been answered already though.) I always thought "Across the Universe" was more of a trippin' thing ...
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #39
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Well, in all honestly you do come across in a kind of abrasive way. And to my eyes, sometimes it seems you are being insulting to other folks. And I did wonder if you had an agenda behind your post. Thought I would ask.
    You must have me confused with someone else. Or maybe I should ask my Ti-Si loop to stop being so abrasive.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Emotions are not the sole domain of Fi. Therefore I can't disprove it any more than I could prove it. And then, would it be Fi or Fe dom, aux, tert ... ?? I don't think we have enough data. The poem is not enough for me.
    Whatever characteristic stands out the most is where I locate the dominant type. It's only afterward that things can become confusing. If you think there is a personality disorder or two lurking behind the poem, then consider a dom-tert loop. But I never wanted to take it that far. If it's so difficult just to come up with a basic type, then why should I push my luck?

    @

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I find it difficult to make that distinction. I find it challenging to separate the person from the expression. Perhaps that is an Fi thing. I think about how she must be feeling to write like that and translate that into an outer manifestation. And, aside from that "girl" really being a 55 yo pedo trying to solicit like-minded individuals into his deception, seems like a person who needs some guidance and tools to learn how to manage her inner emotionality.
    Yes, but I'm just not particularly worried about the stranger who wrote the poem. It could be anybody.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I watched the video but did not comment - did you choose it for the music or the animation (will check thread to see if that's been answered already though.) I always thought "Across the Universe" was more of a trippin' thing ...
    It's both combined, the entire experience. The song has an element of meditation to it ("Ommmmm"). 'Jai Guru Dava" means "I love you my master," probably referring to the Maharishi. The rest of it sounds like descriptions of Lennon's subconsciousness, maybe during a drug trip, I don't know. The whole video bursts forth with Ni symbolism.

    If you want to know what "Ni symbolism means" - simply look at the pictures as they change dreamlike from image to image, and listen to Lennon's lyrics.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #40
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Not some Fi type? (Introverting feelings.)
    Introverted Feeling is about evaluating whether or not something resonates with the subject. Not about affect.

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