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  1. #1
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    Question Here's a puzzle...

    I'm completely unsure of my type, so I'm hoping this community might be kind enough to help me out. For a while, I've been researching both the MBTI and the Enneagram for a while, but I'm uncertain about how I fit into both--the MBTI especially. So I ask you all: which type(s) do you think I am?

    Warning: this is an extreme mind-dump of my personality. I've seen the questionnaire that people have been posting, but I feel like it's redundant... or maybe just my answers are. This seemed the easier course of action. Apologies for the length.

    -------

    I tend to portray myself as being impassive, unaffected by the events going on. “Everything is okay” or “I don’t mind” are two common phrases out of me. It’s too much hassle to let every emotion rush over me. When I let them, it’s entirely exhausting: I get depressed and tired from constant up and downs. I vary from zoning out to having buzzing thoughts, though admittedly the former is more common. I can be passionate, but it's fleeting.

    I don’t like admitting if I’m upset (angry, hurt, disappointed, etc.) unless it’s easily fixable. This isn’t out of pride, but because I don’t want to cause a scene. Often I feel like, if I admit how I feel, others will try too hard to fix it. Another problem with telling others if something is wrong is that there’s always contradictions: “I’m annoyed, but...” This entire concept seems foreign to people. So instead of saying if I’m bothered, I withdraw into my own head.

    My speech is casual and I don’t really feel the need to be formal or to “look good.” I dress plainly, partly because I like neutral/simple things, partly because I don’t want to draw more attention to myself. Everyone notices me anyway, so why make myself more obvious? As I age, I’m starting to accept that it’s “okay” to express myself—and I don’t mean only via clothing.

    At my best, I’m confident. I can easily find my way around life, in social situations, in the unknown. Talking to strangers isn’t as daunting, because somehow I can get my message across. I’m much more willing to put effort into something, to finish a project. Everything around is interesting and I’m curious to know more about it all. There are too many questions, too many places to explore: let’s go, there’s something around the next corner!

    At my worst, I’m drained. Nothing seems worthwhile, so it’s better to not try. All the energy is sucked out of me. At my lowest, I completely numb out, unwilling to have any thoughts, because even those take energy. Why bother, nothing really matters; just stay in bed, keep staring at the wall.

    When stressed, I start to worry about little things and worry more about the big things. If all my nerves become frayed at this point, I’ll completely break down. Nothing can console me, I’m too worried about everything. It’s rare to get this bad, but it’s happened a few times. I’ll start to take care of myself before I fall apart, so the worry is pretty much where it stops.

    An odd thing about me is that I have a sort of natural “disconnect” in my head. Maybe it’s compartmentalization, maybe it’s doublethink, I don’t know. I can accept something and feel strongly about it, but not let it affect me too much. A big example would be that I know I am disabled, yet I don’t identify as being disabled; even though I’m angry at the difficulties my handicap brings, I’m not angry about the disability itself. Another would be that I can feel extremely bad about someone being hurt, but my first thought isn’t to their feelings, it's how to fix it: someone cut their finger, so instead of hovering over them at first, I’d just go get a Band-Aid.

    In social situations, I always end up being the “support.” How I support others can really change, because different people need different things. If there’s a more “submissive” person, then I will act more “dominant” and speak up when they won’t; vise versa if there’s a louder person. There’s no question that I prefer a backseat role, in part due to social anxiety, but also because it’s downright hard to keep up façades such as assertiveness. As support, I tend to help the minute someone asks me to (even indirectly), but I won’t exactly jump in and they have to be polite about it. It should be mentioned that I am truly socially incompetent: I don't understand how or why people interact the way they do. When I try to copy their methods, I fail.

    People describe me as: stubborn, apathetic, kind, strange, smart, quiet, unemotional. They’re surprised by what I can do, even the things I find simple (both physically and mentally). I come off as reliable and/or trustworthy; they gladly confide personal information to me, look to me for advice. Some have said that they're not sure how I'll react to some things, so apparently I can be confusing (yet have also been accused of being predictable).

    I would describe myself as: introverted, compassionate, task-oriented, kind, anxious, curious, sarcastic, idealistic, cynical. Even I think of myself as unemotional to a point. It’s as if I need a period of time to process the situation—though there certainly are times where I will feel a “burst.” This unemotionality is something I dislike about myself and would like to change. I tend to think far too much, so even if I feel like I should do something, I keep thinking of other solutions and which would be the best. Whether my head or my heart rules isn't clear-cut.

    A common question is, "What do you want in life?" My driving motivation is to understand the world around me, the reasons behind everything. I want to be fully accepted, but I think that's because I haven't felt this from anyone other than (maybe) my family. Even though I'm very lazy, I want to be seen as competent and autonomous. I want to help people—I'm a humanitarian—so I'm searching for a job that will utilize my skills and be worthwhile.

  2. #2
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Hmmm... I want to say ExxJ. Though most of your description sounds more IxxP.... It depends on whether you like the way you are when you are more ExxJ-ish, or IxxP-ish. If you feel it's more natural for you to be energetic, not better just natural, or if you enjoy the apathy. I see Fe in their somewhere and Ti as well... I feel as if you have Ni, too.

    Overall I would personally give these two conclusions:

    You are an ExFJ of some sort.
    You are an IxTP now wishing to aspire to a more consistent ExFJ role.

  3. #3
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Hmmm... I want to say ExxJ. Though most of your description sounds more IxxP.... It depends on whether you like the way you are when you are more ExxJ-ish, or IxxP-ish. If you feel it's more natural for you to be energetic, not better just natural, or if you enjoy the apathy. I see Fe in their somewhere and Ti as well... I feel as if you have Ni, too.

    Overall I would personally give these two conclusions:

    You are an ExFJ of some sort.
    You are an IxTP now wishing to aspire to a more consistent ExFJ role.
    I've never had anyone say I was an ExxJ... Hm. Not ruling it out, but it's a bit startling! I'm quite introverted: people have a hard time getting to know me and I often want "quiet time."

    It's not natural for me to be energetic. I certainly feel better when I am, but it feels foreign, not really me. Like I said, I don't enjoy the apathy, but I don't really know any other way. I've been diagnosed with dysthymia and social anxiety, so I think this is fairly normal, if it could be called that.

    Could you explain why you see Ti/Fe? I don't relate to Fe much at all, though Ti I do a fair bit. The main "disagreement" I have with Ti is that their logic is subjective... like, they can twist words around to make it fit their plan. I don't do that, I prefer agreed-upon definitions and such. If I do use Ti/Fe and Ni as you said, it'd have to be ISTP (or ENFJ), a type I haven't truly considered yet... *reflects*

  4. #4
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    You might not be a social extravert, but that doesn't necessarily mean you don't lead with an extraverted function. Agreed upon decisions... that's just Je really. It'd be more telling if you enjoy definitions that are gained from a common consensus in a group of people, or definitions based on quantitative results.

    Your willingness (even with politeness as a qualification) to readily help people seems superficially Fe, but the cognitive process behind it is to strengthen the relationship with the person you're helping. If that is the reason, then I would say Fe exists. Don't forget my other possibility. And I wouldn't say that's the exact definition of subjective when talking about Ti. I would say they choose which objective data to focus on when analyzing. I see there being a slight difference in that definition.

  5. #5
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    You might not be a social extravert, but that doesn't necessarily mean you don't lead with an extraverted function. Agreed upon decisions... that's just Je really. It'd be more telling if you enjoy definitions that are gained from a common consensus in a group of people, or definitions based on quantitative results.
    Quantitative results, definitely. While I can be swayed by a rational and logical argument, I often want proof. I'm a big-picture thinker, working off of generalities instead of details, so it doesn't always seem like I'm looking for backup reasoning.

    This isn't exactly related, but I have a hard time explaining how my mind works because of how generalized it all is. Everything is more conceptual up there, so it's hard to find the words to express what I'm thinking and/or feeling. It's made life difficult sometimes...

    Your willingness (even with politeness as a qualification) to readily help people seems superficially Fe, but the cognitive process behind it is to strengthen the relationship with the person you're helping. If that is the reason, then I would say Fe exists.
    Not exactly. I'll help someone even if I have the knowledge I will never see them again. Your reasoning suggests I wouldn't. There's other factors that go into whether I'll help, of course, but... Well, I'll help because I care, not because I'm looking to strengthen a bond.

    Don't forget my other possibility. And I wouldn't say that's the exact definition of subjective when talking about Ti. I would say they choose which objective data to focus on when analyzing. I see there being a slight difference in that definition.
    I'm probably misunderstanding, but that sounds like cherry-picking, which isn't how I roll. I admit that, at times, I have withheld information/sources, but usually because I deemed it unnecessary at the time (too complicated, too contradictory, etc.). When I research a subject, I want to know everything about it--until I lose interest, of course, which can happen in a blink of an eye.

    Thanks for your help, Reflect

  6. #6
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    What I'm trying to describe with Ti is that it is something wants to logically get to the truth of something so it doesn't treat all objective information equally, it decides what will get to the truth of the matter it's analyzing, while Te has the tendency to treat all information equally and then once brought within the person it is syphoned towards personal perception needs (Ni or Si).

    That first paragraph hints at Ni-Te in that order. In order to tell exactly would you say that rational data is a servant to your personal perception of events. I'd say it's a test between being ENTJ or INTJ... However your softening seems to point to a developed Fi, could still be both, but depending on age (or environment) that isn't supposed to develop until someones 30's in the tertiary position. I really hate nurture because it skews this aspect of development.

    Fe could still be in. Fe builds relationships, but considers all relationships equal. So you helping with the knowledge of never meeting someone again points towards that. The fact that you still feel logical may point you to being an INFJ. Which has Ni (conceptual data), Fe (relationship equality), Ti (This logical truth seeker) and Se (The desire to live in the present and examine physical data directly as it is received).

    No problem

  7. #7
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    What I'm trying to describe with Ti is that it is something wants to logically get to the truth of something so it doesn't treat all objective information equally, it decides what will get to the truth of the matter it's analyzing, while Te has the tendency to treat all information equally and then once brought within the person it is syphoned towards personal perception needs (Ni or Si).
    Ahhh, okay. That I understand a lot better. I think I do the Te thing more, but the judging on whether or not it's useful or relevant is second-nature. The thing is, I'm not likely to trust an expert just because they say they know a lot about a subject. What they're saying has to make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    That first paragraph hints at Ni-Te in that order. In order to tell exactly would you say that rational data is a servant to your personal perception of events. I'd say it's a test between being ENTJ or INTJ... However your softening seems to point to a developed Fi, could still be both, but depending on age (or environment) that isn't supposed to develop until someones 30's in the tertiary position. I really hate nurture because it skews this aspect of development.
    I thought the tertiary function starts developing when one is in their twenties? I'm 22, so that would line up about right. The only problem being that while I wasn't an overly emotional/caring kid, I was sensitive. It was very easy to hurt my feelings (especially if my parents scolded me) and I often made myself feel worse than anyone else did. I'm still like that, sensitive to criticism and nearby upset people, but I'm also completely awkward around those who need comforting and unsure about how I feel about a situation at first.

    Would it help if I asked my parents how I really was as a kid? Maybe we could see which my first function was? I'm sure my memory is off.

    Fe could still be in. Fe builds relationships, but considers all relationships equal. So you helping with the knowledge of never meeting someone again points towards that. The fact that you still feel logical may point you to being an INFJ. Which has Ni (conceptual data), Fe (relationship equality), Ti (This logical truth seeker) and Se (The desire to live in the present and examine physical data directly as it is received).
    I've considered INFJ, yeah. It's a possibility, especially considering I'm not traditionally "intellectual." I think the only way that I would be an INFJ is if I were in a Ni-Ti loop to the point where my Fe is underdeveloped as a result. I suppose that would make sense: my school years really did take a toll on me emotionally (I was socially shunned and very introverted as a result).

    It seems like we're both under the general consensus that I'm Ti and/or Ni, yeah? I'll focus on those types, then. The ENTJ type seems far too driven for me to be one, thus ruling out Te-dom (in theory, I suppose). I'll do a double post, the next one quoting some descriptions I can see myself in.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    • The descriptions:


    Ti likes to figure out entire systems just for the sake of getting a glimpse of complete truth ("I want to play guitar, so I will learn the system of rules for how chords are built so I understand the whole thing at once"), whereas Te is much more goal-oriented and always wants to know how this system can be applied to something externally useful or used to accomplish our predetermined goals...so Te would be more inclined to first figure out what the goal is ("What do I plan to use my guitar playing for?") and then learn only what's necessary to complete that goal. ("I want to learn 'Freebird', so I will learn the chords and techniques necessary to play that song.")
    Te takes a step by step, sequential and linear approach based on which steps are needed to complete its goals, while Ti tries to understand the entire system as one big unit simply because it's interesting and stimulating.
    From the Te perspective, there is no such thing as logic without this sort of externalized validity, because impersonal ideas are to be shared and agreed upon by large groups instead of individuals (the same way Fe treats ethics) and determined by objective consensus. Te users tend to find Ti selfish and unyielding in its insistence on fitting things into its own personal logical framework before accepting them, rather than taking widely accepted external evidence or consensus seriously.
    *Note: I want to understand badly, so I often keep asking about things. I'm not sure if this fits as "fitting things into its own personal logical framework" or not. However, I have issues dealing with xNTPs because their "logical framework" is completely foreign.

    Ti people are usually very good with pure logic in a vacuum, as Ti simply "knows" inherently what is logical and what is not, and will defend this sense of logic to the death just to prove a point. Te people, on the other hand, are more concerned with what tangible USE can come from an argument--which is often none. This is why INTPs will argue hypotheticals all day but INTJs will rarely bother trying to convince you. For the INTJ, Te simply doesn't see what useful goal would be served by trying to change your opinion.
    Strong Ni users like being the person behind the scenes who pulls all the strings (even better if most people don't even realize it) and understands the dynamics of everything on a deeper level than everyone else. They are threatened by the idea that there might be any perspective or angle they cannot see, and as such they sometimes overestimate their own ability to fully grasp and work around the attitudes of others.
    It is an outwardly exploratory attitude that encourages us to change, reinvent and experiment with the external world in order to find new and interesting combinations and patterns. Ne looks for novel outcomes and imagines how the things around you could be changed into other, more interesting things. Ne sees new information as part of a larger, emerging, as of yet unseen pattern that extends far beyond the self, and whose meaning will continue to change as the context grows and we discover more of the all-encompassing pattern. Rather than directly confront an issue, Ne will often broaden the context until the issue seems insignificant by comparison to the much bigger and more expansive ideas it imagines.

    As with all extroverted functions, Ne needs to be validated by external/objective information to have meaning. So Ne users will often have many ideas very quickly but not know if they're good until they hear other people's reactions to them, or have a chance to experiment and see what happens. Ne wants very badly to be understood and appreciated by others.
    *Note: Ne has always seemed far too creative for me. I'm horrible at coming up with new ideas, but can easily twist old ideas to work. I'm a good troubleshooter. This all seems to suggest I'm a convergent thinker... But Ti is supposedly convergent...


    • Dom-Tert Loops that seem possible:

    INTP/ISFJ: Ti/Si or Si/Ti--Schizotypal Personality Disorder. I see this most commonly in INTP dom/tert loops (Ti+Si), resulting in totally giving up on attempting to obtain the social/interpersonal connections that inferior Fe drives them to unconsciously desire. Schizotypal people are seen (and typically see themselves) as having such unusual thoughts and behaviors that widespread social acceptance is nearly impossible. Ti thinks, "I cannot find any logical explanation for social rituals" and Si reinforces this self-isolating, risk-averse behavior by constantly reminding the user: "Remember how badly this went last time you tried?"
    ISTP/INFJ: Ti/Ni or Ni/Ti--Schizoid Personality Disorder. These types are socially incompetent for lack of trying, because they see little to no value in significant interaction with others. They live in their own abstract worlds, constantly second-guessing themselves as Ti poses a framework for a problem and Ni shoots it down as too definitionally precise. Without any real external input, these two functions will dream up all sorts of elaborate systems and implications for them, only to repeat their own self-defeating behavior, never bothering to emphasize putting any of its intense ideas into practice. Frequent disregard for rules, laws and other forms of behavioral standards is common
    ISFP/INTJ: Fi/Ni or Ni/Fi--Paranoid Personality Disorder. These types are your typical conspiracy theorists; they cling deeply to their personal values and can find a conspiracy to assault or attack those values everywhere they look. Chronically distrustful of others' intentions for no legitimate reason, these types are certain they are the only ones who really know "the truth." The inferior function, Te or Se, can sometimes lead to an unconscious desire to attract the attention of or lead/organize others in efforts to expose the nefarious conspiracies they invariably see everywhere.
    *Note: I can fall into being "paranoid," but it's never gotten this bad. Most conspiracies are too far-fetched. Instead, I get overly suspicious or "superstitious," always trying to protect myself.

    INFP/ISTJ: Fi/Si or Si/Fi--Avoidant Personality Disorder. Often scarred by some intensely negative past experience with opening up too many of their private emotions, this type compulsively avoids social situations and interaction with others. They are fiercely sensitive and may exaggerate or misconstrue perceived negative emotional intent in the words or actions of others. They will sometimes project their negative feelings onto others (Fi), as Si tells them that if I were to behave this way, I would have to be very upset, so anyone who behaves that way must also be. These types often have a chronic problem with trusting the intentions or motivations of others, refusing to share private information with even their closest friends and family. They are so deeply sensitive that they refuse to risk being hurt by attempting deep connections with others--you'll see this a lot in ISTJs with Asperger's.
    • As for the "Quick Guide To Double-Checking Your Type..."

    Directing communications have a time and task orientation with an implication of urgency to get the task done. "Have your report to me by close of business today."
    Informing communications are designed to enroll the other in the process by providing motivation with relevant information. "Your report is an essential part of our project."
    *Note: I first try the informing method, but if they don't understand, I'll switch to directing fairly easily. It's not as comfortable, though.

    Chart-the-Course (Directing and Responding). Typically knowing the plan and what needs to be done to reach the goal, they focus on keeping the team on track. (ISTJ, INTJ, INFJ, ISTP)
    Behind-the-Scenes (Informing and Responding). With patience and a calm, quiet style, they focus on understanding and accommodation to lead the team to the best possible result. (ISFJ, INTP, INFP, ISFP)
    *Note: Love being Behind-the-Scenes, but again I can switch to Chart-the-Course if I have to.

    -Artisan/Improviser (Concrete and Pragmatic): Want the freedom to choose the next act. Seek to have impact, to get results. Want to be graceful, bold, and impressive. (ISFP, ISTP, ESFP, ESTP)
    -Guardian/Stabiliser (Concrete and Affiliative): Want to fit in, to have membership. Hunger for responsibility, accountability, and predictability. Tend to be generous, to serve, and to do their duty. (ISFJ, ISTJ, ESFJ, ESTJ)
    -Idealist/Catalyst (Abstract and Affiliative): Want to be authentic, benevolent, and empathic. Search for identity, meaning, and significance. Are relationship oriented, particularly valuing meaningful relationships. (INFP, INFJ, ENFP, ENFJ)
    -Rational/Theorist (Abstract and Pragmatic): Want knowledge and to be competent, to achieve mastery. Seek expertise to understand how the world and things in it work. (INTP, INTJ, ENTP, ENTJ)
    *Note: I feel pragmatic, but have always related to the INFx descriptions... INFP moreso than INFJ. I'm generally abstract, but I don't use/like metaphors in conversation and see debating theories for 10 hours as pointless.

  9. #9
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    I've been typing a lot of people as 9s lately, and you're no exception. And you're an INTP too. or maybe an Ni user, but what you said previously that made you not think you're Ti like described Ti perfectly anyway. INTP 9.

    Oh, and I agree, those limits questionnaires aren't as good as writing out something similar to what you have written. They do their job reasonably well, and it's better than writing a sentence or two, but they're just not as good as what you've done.
    5 3 9

  10. #10
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King-Of-Despair View Post
    I've been typing a lot of people as 9s lately, and you're no exception. And you're an INTP too. or maybe an Ni user, but what you said previously that made you not think you're Ti like described Ti perfectly anyway. INTP 9.

    Oh, and I agree, those limits questionnaires aren't as good as writing out something similar to what you have written. They do their job reasonably well, and it's better than writing a sentence or two, but they're just not as good as what you've done.
    Thanks

    Well, you're probably right, at least about the Enneagram. I've been stuck between 6 or 9. I've thought of myself as (phobic) 6w7 for a while, but now I'm second-guessing if I'm not a 6w5 or a 9w8. The only thing I'm mostly sure about is being sp/sx!

    Are you saying I inadvertently described my usage of Ti, even the bad bits? Oh, irony is so cruel.

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