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  1. #11
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I say after that you are INFJ. The reason why I don't think you'd be INT(F)P is that I feel most wouldn't be able to flip from informative to directive that easily. It's like Fe trying to be nice, but then the person doesn't listen and then it rears its head. I'll write more after some more thought.

  2. #12
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I say after that you are INFJ. The reason why I don't think you'd be INT(F)P is that I feel most wouldn't be able to flip from informative to directive that easily. It's like Fe trying to be nice, but then the person doesn't listen and then it rears its head. I'll write more after some more thought.
    I dunno, I feel like part of it is because informing uses more words. Repeating that much is annoying after a while, so I switch to directive.

    Spoke to my mom about my childhood a bit. I'll post it if you want? Was on IM, so it wouldn't be a big deal. Already in text format, yay.

    I'm trying to gather up some data. Did many tests, both function and dichotomy ones, to find some sort of pattern. The function ones had very little (Se and Fe are the lowest), and the dichotomies all say INxP, though one said ISTP. I'm starting to think I'm either an INTJ 9 or an INTP 6... Or, like you said Reflect, an INFJ something. Ugh.

    --------

    Ni > Ti > Fi > Si > Si = Ne = Te > Se > Fe

    Ne > Ti > Ni > Fi > Si = Te > Se > Fe

    Ni > Fi = Ti > Fe > Si > Ne = Te > Se

    Fi > Ne > Ti > Te = Ni > Si > Fe > Se

    Fi > Ne > Te > Ti = Ni > Si > Se > Fe

    Ne = Fi > Ti > Ni > Se > Fe > Si = Te

    Introversion (I): 88%
    Intuition (N): 87.5%
    Thinking (T): 51.85%
    Perceiving (P): 82.61%

    Introversion: 77%
    Intuition: 65%
    Thinking: 58%
    Perceiving: 66%

    INxP

    75% INFP - 73% INTP - 72% ENFP - 71% ENTP - 66% ISFP - 64% ISTP - 63% INFJ - 62% INTJ

    Introversion: 81%
    Intuitive: 55%
    Thinking: 51%
    Perceiving: 62%

    Introversion (90.2 %)
    Sensing (80.9 %)
    Thinking (64.1 %)
    Perceiving (50.9 %)

    Introverted (I) 86%
    Intuitive (N) 68%
    Feeling (F) 55%
    Perceiving (P) 77%

  3. #13
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Hm, well it does look that way doesn't it. I just thought about my reasoning and I don't like it anymore. The switch from informative to directive could be Te kicking in. That'd line up a little more with your test results. J/P dichotomies are annoying. Why do you think you scored Sensing on only one test? And do you agree with INFP descriptions?

  4. #14
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Hm, well it does look that way doesn't it. I just thought about my reasoning and I don't like it anymore. The switch from informative to directive could be Te kicking in. That'd line up a little more with your test results. J/P dichotomies are annoying.
    Share your reasoning anyway? Might be more useful than you think. The J/P is incredibly annoying, I agree. My head feels J, my actions/habits say P. Like I said, figuring out if I'm E6 or E9 might help (an INTP 6 would be more uptight, an INTJ 9 would be lazier).

    Or maybe I'm just a screwed up case?

    Why do you think you scored Sensing on only one test?
    I think that was the one that analyzed text, so I don't put much stock in it. Makes me wonder, though. I can't see myself in many ISTP people/descriptions... but is that because I can't use Se "normally," being physically handicapped? Or is it because I'm not one?

    And do you agree with INFP descriptions?
    On a superficial level, yeah. INFP really resonates with how I feel inside, but it doesn't line up with how I interact with the world. I act like an INTx most of the time... Most men are more emotional than I am! Another thing is that "strong" INFPs actually annoy me a lot, as most of them are either very self-righteous or highly emotional. I know the whole "it's the internet!" thing, but... No.

    I had a couple thoughts that might explain some things? (Probably not.)
    • I'm polite and friendly when I want things from others. Not "want" as in "take" but when requesting and asking questions. A couple months ago I just realized (literally, it slapped me in the face) that I do this more because it works better, not because I actually care. (I still care, but... etc.)
    • My Si use is almost solely unhealthy. It'd probably make it one of my shadow functions, using Beebe's model. Not sure which one. The one good trait I have from Si is that I'm aware of myself. All the bad traits come out when stressed, such as being avoidant and hiding away. Suggests Ni/Se, though I'm still iffy on that. I don't "feel" Ni-dom.
    • Why don't I feel Ni-dom? I'm very literal. I can read between the lines, but metaphors just don't really click with me. I don't like art or poetry. I'm not really aware of how things should be perceived, I just perceive things as my brain does. I need reassurance and feedback about my ideas (an Ne trait). In school, I hated analyzing for the "deeper meaning" (symbolic metaphors) in books or movies, I just wanted to enjoy the damn thing!

  5. #15
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    That last bullet point sounds a lot like extroverted sensing. I'm thinking Ni-Ti for dominant and tertiary loop, or vice versa. ISTP, or INFJ. Of course you say you act like an INTx, which could mean you are also ISFP or INTJ. I'm going to say you have introverted intuition somewhere. Either your dominant or your tertiary.

  6. #16
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    You sound more J than P to me, and more Te/Fi than Fe/Ti... It's just a feel though

    IXTJ perhaps?
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  7. #17
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    You sound like an IxTJ to me, too. Task-oriented, compartmentalizing things, thinking about what you can do to fix things rather than thinking of feelings, willing to dom/sub switch instead of always being dominant leads me to believe that you aren't ExTJ.

  8. #18
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    http://www.erictb.info/archetypes.html

    This one has the archetypes of the functions according to Beebe.

    And you can figure out your dom function at least according to Jung, so you can stop with all of this silly "am I 4 or 5 totally different types" and narrow it down.

    http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm

  9. #19
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    You sound more J than P to me, and more Te/Fi than Fe/Ti... It's just a feel though

    IXTJ perhaps?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You sound like an IxTJ to me, too. Task-oriented, compartmentalizing things, thinking about what you can do to fix things rather than thinking of feelings, willing to dom/sub switch instead of always being dominant leads me to believe that you aren't ExTJ.
    I am leaning towards INTJ, but I have strong Ti and not-very-strong Ni, or at least I think so. Maybe I'm just not reading the right Ni descriptions or not interpreting them correctly. Having tertiary Fi fits perfectly, more than inferior Fe does.

    Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    http://www.erictb.info/archetypes.html

    This one has the archetypes of the functions according to Beebe.

    And you can figure out your dom function at least according to Jung, so you can stop with all of this silly "am I 4 or 5 totally different types" and narrow it down.

    http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
    Having a read through those pages, but it'll take me a couple days. Should prove helpful, though!

  10. #20
    Junior Member Quasar's Avatar
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    The below are the archetype descriptions I related to the most.

    hero:
    • Ni (INxJ): Life must have an underlying significance inferred by me
      • - Always searching for truth and meaning

    • Ti (IxTP): Life must make technical sense to me
      • - See above


    parent:
    • Se (ISxP): Aiding others in tangible experiences
    • Te (IxTJ): Directing others to efficiently organize the environment
      • - “Organize” = “use;” related to Se description

    • Fi (ExFP): Teaching others by one's own personal relation to situations
      • - Not always my own relation, but “how would you feel?” as well


    child:
    • Se (ENxJ): Looking to be led by others in tangible experiences
      • - Preferring extroverted friends to draw me out of my shell

    • Si (INxP): Nostalgic enjoyment of memories, especially childhood
    • Fi (IxTJ): Find relief through internal harmony; personally relating to situations represents innocence
    • Fe (ExTP): childlike when connecting with others
      • - Have been called “cute;” many perceive me as innocent or naïve; find safety in acting warm/kind in social situations


    anima:
    • IxTP's might feel inferior in social settings.
      • - More related to social anxiety and underdeveloped social skills

    • INxJ's might feel inferior with current tangible experience.; INxJ's Cling to dominant perspective. Criticize SP's as reckless
      • - Have a tough time interacting with ESxPs for an extended period


    opposing:

    • INxJ's Feel obstructed in or become stubborn about emergent meanings and possibilities
      • - Bad at brainstorming

    • IxFP's Think that agreed upon ethics do not get to the real needs of people; affect them negatively, etc.
    • ExTJ's Breaking things down into trivial detail is stupid, inefficient and a waste of time
      • - Very much the reason why I dislike analyzing art or talking for hours about theories


    witch/senex:

    • IxTJ's Feel negated in or become disgruntled about variable logical principles; IxTJ's Will often angrily hit others with logical "truth" or principles.
    • ISxP's Feel negated in or become disgruntled about rememberance of facts.; ISxP's Avoid past rememberances, except to blame, and will make them critical if others dwell too much
      • - Bad at memory recall, though I get into moods where I can’t stop thinking about past situations and how much it hurt.

    • INxP's Interpret everything in terms of a "big picture" in which the worst will happen, and blame those around them.
      • - Infamous for my worst-case scenario thinking, though possibly related more to E6 and (possible) Ni-dom?


    trickster:

    • INxP's Might feel 'double-bound' by tangible reality (physical things, etc), and then it seems to become the perfect vehicle to try to turn the tables on others with, or to be silly with.; INxP's People performing rigorous stunts are clowns; people pointing out tangible reality that goes against the ego seem like "bullies"
      • - Unsure about the definition of ‘double-bound.’ Dislike it when people try to force reality on my flights of fancy

    • IxTJ's Might feel 'double-bound' by social values, and use them to trap others into behaving or conforming
      • - Have been known to twist things around to suit my purposes, though very rare

    • ENxJ's People who dwell on the past (instead of moving on) are "puerile", and yet they might distort it to get them off their back
      • - Dislike using the past as an excuse


    demon:

    • INxJ's The past is highly irrelevant, and likely haunting; INxJ's "When really stressed, they may waste time reviewing the impact of the past."
      • - Related to ISxP senex and ENxJ trickster. Don’t see the past as totally irrelevant.

    • IxTP's the personal factor in situations, or conscience might be a nagging, guilt-provoking issue we wish could go away.
      • - Often have self-guilt for not doing what I perceive to be the best/right thing, even if I couldn't do it anyway

    • ESxP's "over-read 'between the lines', often misinterpreting the meaning of someone's actions and attributing negative intentions where there are none"
      • - Known to do this a lot; related to INxP senex.

    • ENxP's "zero in on isolated details, hastily acting on them in a chaotic disjointed way"



    opposing:

    • Ne as Opposing Personality: The person usually has "knowings" based on internal abstract perceptions. If this is challenged, they will turn towards external stimuli to back up their perception.
    • Ni as Opposing backs up Ne as hero. The ego cherishes multiple opportunities of external obects being open. If they are shut out, then the person will "lock on" to an internal negative perception of what will happen.

    witch/senex:

    • Ti as witch/senex: The person parents others with rules of external technical efficiency. When this is not adhered to, then they begin parenting critically with the universal technical frameworks and principles of the world that support the external rules.

    trickster:

    • When Se is trickster, then Si is puer, and internalized tangible experience is what the ego childishly falls back on to maintain its introverted attitude. If this is challenged, the ego will use current tangible reality to get others off his back by pointing at others ("you do it too" defense {triggered when the ego is intimidated through the puer by memory-based fear of punishment}). "wanting to have its own way": wanting to see things for myself, and having concrete evidence for things such as spirituality.
    • Si as trickster: Sensory pleasure is a source of childlike relief. If this is threatened, they will reference memorized experiences to get the person off their back.
    • Ti as trickster: External technical efficiency is looked up to with childlike innocence. The person will turn to the underlying technical principles behind it as a last resort if intimidated. Otherwise, it is seen as puerile detail.
    • Fe as trickster: The person finds relief through universal/personal humane values. External set values are appealed to (often in an overgeneralized fashion) when motivating someone to do what's important, particularly if the person's behavior is affecting them in some way.

    demon:

    • Ne as demon: They aspire to having a sense of the future. When stressed, it can turn into messed up interpretations.

    ------------

    Now, I honestly don't understand the whole "Crow's Nest" analogy. I didn't in Lenore's book and I don't in the Archetype article. Could someone explain it in different terms? I did find it interesting that Si and Fe are the two functions I have difficulty using "correctly" and understanding those who have it as their heroes (plus Se).

    These are called the "Crow's Nests" in Lenore's ship analogy, while the preferred functions with the attitudes reversed are the "Double Agents" (who as the opposite side brain alternatives act as the "maintenance crew", but may attempt mutiny. And the tertiary and inferior basically cause trouble from outside the ship).
    (Should be pointed out that in Lenore's view, the Crow's Nests and Double Agents are not necessarily the same as the archetypes associated with the same functions).

    So,
    SP's: Se-->Ne
    SJ's: Si-->Ni
    NP's: Ne-->Se
    NJ's: Ni-->Si
    TJ's: Te-->Fe
    TP's: Ti-->Fi
    FJ's: Fe-->Te
    FP's: Fi-->Ti

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