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  1. #251
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    They are? I thought it was just me being a skittish youth...
    Fair enough.

  2. #252
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    Fair enough.
    Out of curiosity, though, do my descriptions sound more like Fe or Fi to you?
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  3. #253
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Out of curiosity, though, do my descriptions sound more like Fe or Fi to you?
    I can see the majority of them fitting into both or either, depending on your reasons. The only one which I thought was a clear example of Fe was:

    *Increases my sensitivity to others' expectations and opinions of me (also allowing me to be less judgmental, by the same token)
    Your underlying primary focus seems to be on what goes on between yourself and others, how you impact each other and whatnot, so I would guess Fe at a glance. But I still believe your reasons would clarify the difference much better.

  4. #254
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    I can see the majority of them fitting into both or either, depending on your reasons. The only one which I thought was a clear example of Fe was:



    Your underlying primary focus seems to be on what goes on between yourself and others, how you impact each other and whatnot, so I would guess Fe at a glance. But I still believe your reasons would clarify the difference much better.
    In this specific case, what I meant was: I hate feeling foolish, inferior, incompetent, etc.; I often feel as if I'm being silently judged* by my peers (for lack of a better word); it's a feeling that brings about guilt, unease, defeatism and other fun emotions; therefore, I'd like to not evoke these sorts of feelings in others.

    Mind you, I can get quite critical under pressure/stress. Especially when other people are "getting in the way" of my efforts. But mostly, I try to minimize pressure towards others. I may be a small-minded man, but that's my problem and no one else's.

    Does that help, Noon? I never quite know when I've gone far enough into the rabbit hole...

    * (When they're not vocal about it, that is.)
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  5. #255
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    In this specific case, what I meant was: I hate feeling foolish, inferior, incompetent, etc.; I often feel as if I'm being silently judged* by my peers (for lack of a better word); it's a feeling that brings about guilt, unease, defeatism and other fun emotions; therefore, I'd like to not evoke these sorts of feelings in others.

    Mind you, I can get quite critical under pressure/stress. Especially when other people are "getting in the way" of my efforts. But mostly, I try to minimize pressure towards others. I may be a small-minded man, but that's my problem and no one else's.

    Does that help, Noon? I never quite know when I've gone far enough into the rabbit hole...

    * (When they're not vocal about it, that is.)
    That's Fi! That's the same reason I would have given. You're not being nice out of social obligation, but because you know from your own experience what it's like to feel judged, and you don't want to make others feel that way. You're deriving your own sense of morality from within, from empathy. And getting critical under stress is probably Te. It looks like you could be an INFP after all.

  6. #256
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Does that help, Noon? I never quite know when I've gone far enough into the rabbit hole...
    Somewhat

    edit: Oh, it sounds as if I am repeating myself.

    What I mean is
    So far you've demonstrated that you generally focus more on the external and that your Feeling is utilized primarily in an interpersonal context.

  7. #257
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    That's Fi! That's the same reason I would have given. You're not being nice out of social obligation, but because you know from your own experience what it's like to feel judged, and you don't want to make others feel that way. You're deriving your own sense of morality from within, from empathy. And getting critical under stress is probably Te. It looks like you could be an INFP after all.
    That is indeed a compelling argument... Still, there's the fact that a) that doesn't explain my neuroses concerning what other people think and b) I do, in fact, say a lot of nice things out of a sense of duty, not just natural empathy (I ain't that much of a saint ). I do think my Te is stronger than my Ti, though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    Somewhat

    edit: Oh, it sounds as if I am repeating myself.

    What I mean is
    So far you've demonstrated that you generally focus more on the external and that your Feeling is utilized primarily in an interpersonal context.
    That sounds kind of accurate... I'm kind of oblivious to my current social context, though - even though I'm supposed to be a journalism student 'n' stuff.

    The "social context", here, sometimes becomes an amorphous mass of people who (I think) feel either pity, mild contempt or apathy towards me... or maybe they'd laugh at me if they found out what a huge dork I am, all of them, grinning shadows snickering about the "babe in the woods" that somehow made it into the fortress of the "intellectual elite"*.

    * (You know how they talk about "The Beautiful People"? My university is the den of The Intelligent People - intellectuals, questioners, iconoclasts, subverters of unspoken structures. Those who bite at the ankles of those in power, those who know critical thinking inside out, who yield it as a fine tool, shaking their heads at the oblivious working class and spitting in the eye of the oppressors. You know the kind. )

    ...Geez, I'm drifting.
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

  8. #258
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    That sounds kind of accurate... I'm kind of oblivious to my current social context, though - even though I'm supposed to be a journalism student 'n' stuff.
    It's understandable. You are an introvert and self-preservation first, after all. Fe does not necessarily confer social grace or skill -- that is an individual effort. What is most defining of an Fe user is the preference to focus on the outer (concrete) aspects of value and identity.

    * (You know how they talk about "The Beautiful People"? My university is the den of The Intelligent People - intellectuals, questioners, iconoclasts, subverters of unspoken structures. Those who bite at the ankles of those in power, those who know critical thinking inside out, who yield it as a fine tool, shaking their heads at the oblivious working class and spitting in the eye of the oppressors. You know the kind. )
    Fe doesn't necessarily exclude you from being rebellious or untied to social norms and obligations

    But with Fe, I imagine there is a noticeably more prominent desire to affect your environment with your identity/sense of value and to be open to being affected by it. Fe can have a rebellious desire to change the face of the social environment, and work diligently towards it. ENFJs are an especially good example of this.

  9. #259
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    That is indeed a compelling argument... Still, there's the fact that a) that doesn't explain my neuroses concerning what other people think and b) I do, in fact, say a lot of nice things out of a sense of duty, not just natural empathy (I ain't that much of a saint ). I do think my Te is stronger than my Ti, though...
    Do you think Fi-users can't be hypersensitive about what others think of them? I worry a lot about what others think of me, and I don't think that has anything to do with Fe/Fi. And I also often say nice things out of social obligation, because, well...it's pretty much obligatory unless you want people to think you're a cold person. But when I do that I have a sense of just going through the motions, and it kind of bothers me. I feel much more at ease when I'm acting out of genuine empathy.

  10. #260
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    It's understandable. You are an introvert and self-preservation first, after all. Fe does not necessarily confer social grace or skill -- that is an individual effort. What is most defining of an Fe user is the preference to focus on the outer (concrete) aspects of value and identity.
    Point taken.

    Then again, the "social sphere" is far from what catches my eye the most...

    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    Fe doesn't necessarily exclude you from being rebellious or untied to social norms and obligations

    But with Fe, I imagine there is a noticeably more prominent desire to affect your environment with your identity/sense of value and to be open to being affected by it. Fe can have a rebellious desire to change the face of the social environment, and work diligently towards it. ENFJs are an especially good example of this.
    Oh, I didn't mean to imply that! I was simply pointing out that I don't feel nearly as "subversive" or political as them - it's a private source of shame for me, as I've mentioned in passing once or twice. I'm kind of a sheep, really. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    Do you think Fi-users can't be hypersensitive about what others think of them? I worry a lot about what others think of me, and I don't think that has anything to do with Fe/Fi. And I also often say nice things out of social obligation, because, well...it's pretty much obligatory unless you want people to think you're a cold person. But when I do that I have a sense of just going through the motions, and it kind of bothers me. I feel much more at ease when I'm acting out of genuine empathy.
    But I thought all Fi users were full of magic and poetry and were only sad because people didn't understand them!

    (That's actually what I thought not too long ago. )

    Going through the motions can be a bit bothersome if it takes too long, I agree. But I feel the need to be nice to those that extend me favors or are pleasant towards me (e.g. parents' friends that invite my family over for dinner).
    Tentative typing: ISFJ 6w5 or 9w1 (Sp/S[?]).

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