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Thread: 4w5 or 5w4

  1. #1
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Cool 4w5 or 5w4

    i've thought i was a 4 for a long time, and have always tested as 4, but lately i've been leaning more and more towards 5. . my mom put the idea in my head when she read one of my enneagram books and she insisted that i was definitely a 5. it's so hard for me to decide though because i relate a lot to both and either way i have a very heavy wing.

    so you all should ask me some questions to help me figure it out

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Self- and other-perception are very different things. I have however seen a lot of undifferentiated personality trait reporting since I came to this forum. That is perhaps one reason for their coming here. The assumption is that everybody has to be a single type, when this is not necessarily the case.

    Riso has the most complete description of the 9 enneatypes. The key motivations of the types should provide some strict standards for identifying your type, if possible. So my question is: which of Riso's key motivators describes you best?

    type 4: "Want to be themselves, to express themselves in something beautiful, to find the ideal partner, to withdraw to protect their feelings, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else."

    type 5: "Want to be capable and confident, to master a body of knowledge and skill, to explore reality, to remain undisturbed by others, to reduce their needs."

    Edit: Riso also has this to say on the issue of typing the Four: "It is important to note that most of these [Four] personality traits function by negation. Fours may not know who they are, but they certainly believe they know who they are not."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #3
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    4s are dramatic and deliberately intensify tehir emotions, 5s withdrawn from their emotions, they need to be alone to really feel them, and they see drama as a sillything for weak people.

    4s navigate constantly between idealizing and hating people, 5s are more critical and equal in their criticism.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  4. #4
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    4s are dramatic and deliberately intensify tehir emotions, 5s withdrawn from their emotions, they need to be alone to really feel them, and they see drama as a sillything for weak people.
    I'm not criticizing your point at all, I just want to point out that the latter describes the Fi. The Fi has intense yet private emotions and therefore wishes to stamp out any sign of strong emotion in others. I don't know if that's true of the type 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    4s navigate constantly between idealizing and hating people, 5s are more critical and equal in their criticism.
    Again, I don't know if that's typical of 4s or of the INFP in general, whether that INFP is a type 4, 5, 6, or 9...
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #5
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I'm not criticizing your point at all, I just want to point out that the latter describes the Fi. The Fi has intense yet private emotions and therefore wishes to stamp out any sign of strong emotion in others. I don't know if that's true of the type 4.
    Not necessarly. Fi is just a way of judging thing and take decision, nor necessarly intense.



    Again, I don't know if that's typical of 4s or of the INFP in general, whether that INFP is a type 4, 5, 6, or 9...
    It's typycal of 4. INFPs are not necessarly like that. Being INFP just mean you are I, N, F and P, that's all.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  6. #6
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Self- and other-perception are very different things. I have however seen a lot of undifferentiated personality trait reporting since I came to this forum. That is perhaps one reason for their coming here. The assumption is that everybody has to be a single type, when this is not necessarily the case.

    Riso has the most complete description of the 9 enneatypes. The key motivations of the types should provide some strict standards for identifying your type, if possible. So my question is: which of Riso's key motivators describes you best?

    type 4: "Want to be themselves, to express themselves in something beautiful, to find the ideal partner, to withdraw to protect their feelings, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else."

    type 5: "Want to be capable and confident, to master a body of knowledge and skill, to explore reality, to remain undisturbed by others, to reduce their needs."

    Edit: Riso also has this to say on the issue of typing the Four: "It is important to note that most of these [Four] personality traits function by negation. Fours may not know who they are, but they certainly believe they know who they are not."
    4:
    want to be themselves: definitely
    express themselves in something beautiful: i love and appreciate beautiful things, but i'm more of an observer than a creator. i like relating myself to things other people have created, but not doing it myself as much.
    find the ideal partner: yes , although i think even if i found him i'd probably find something wrong with him and keep doubting it
    withdraw to protect their feelings: yes i have a few memories i think about all the time to make myself feel a certain way, and i never share them with anyone else
    take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else: mostly, sometimes i get over or forget about things surprisingly fast though

    5
    be capable and confident: well.. i'd love to be either of those things but don't think i am at all.
    master a body of knowledge or skill: i know a lot about a few things, wouldn't consider myself a master of anything. but i definitely like being able to know what i'm talking about before i do
    explore reality: yes, i feel like i'm studying life instead of living it sometimes
    remain undisturbed by others: vast majority of people, yes
    reduce their needs: i hate feeling needy, and whenever i do i try my best to stop it. i have a weird relationship with dependency because i really don't want it at all, but sometimes feel like i can't take care of myself and i need it.

    and i very much identify with being able to say what i'm not, or what i dislike a lot easier than describing who i am.

  7. #7
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    4s are dramatic and deliberately intensify tehir emotions, 5s withdrawn from their emotions, they need to be alone to really feel them, and they see drama as a sillything for weak people.

    4s navigate constantly between idealizing and hating people, 5s are more critical and equal in their criticism.
    i do intensify my emotions, but i am not public about them at all and feel the strongest by myself, after i've had time to process exactly what and why i'm feeling how i am. i've occasionally started drama, but when i see other people's i think it's hilarious and feel like they look irrational and stupid.

    theres a few people i go between idealizing and hating but i'm completely apathetic towards most.

    couldn't being sx make me seem more 4 than i am?

  8. #8
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    4 value above all self-expression, self-awareness, they value and amplify their melancoly, when they have a 5 wing, they can be detached and public, and reserve their energy. 5s value above all self-control, objectivity, and disdain dram as a weakness. The 4 wing lean them to have some degree of oniric emphase and to romantize their difference and solitude. I think we can easily differentiate them. 4s also, are very self aware about their feelings, and over identify with them, 5s consider feelings as something artificial and invasive and have difficulty to resent them and feel them.

    You can possibly be Sx, but I have no clue so far.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  9. #9
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    i meant that i know for sure that i'm sx/sp, and from what i've read we have a lot of the love/hate push/pull characteristics that 4's are supposed to have.

    i don't know.. i'd lean a little bit towards 5 from what you're saying, but i still see a lot of myself in both. i do find my feelings a weakness, and a burden sometimes, but i'm still very aware of them and purposely put myself or keep myself in certain negative moods. around other people though, i'm very self controlled. i never raise my voice at people, and the more heated a situation gets i tend to get overly cool-headed and rational because i see big public emotional scenes as embarrassing. one thing really prefer 5 over 4 with is the childhood pattern, i didn't feel rejected by my parents but i distanced myself from them on my own. my mother is extremely emotional and has a bad temper, and i think i tried to make myself the opposite from a young age. i never really yell at people or get confrontational, i'm pretty passive-aggressive when i'm upset about something.

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