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  1. #11
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    sounds ESTP to me
    - confident
    - high energy
    - directing
    - impersonal
    - disorganized, but pragmatic and gets things done
    Quote Originally Posted by strychnine View Post
    ExTP sounds like

    edit: Yes, she sounds directive, so Se.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    ESTP
    Quote Originally Posted by Inconnue View Post
    E*TP for sure, I don't know whether she is a S or a N though, perhaps more S.
    i think we have a quorum.

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    ESFJ.

    I'm thinking about this dude over here. We call him Lotso Huggin Bear from Toy Story 3. He's so nice and warm but is a train wreck with those he works with.


    okay, one, that movie was DARK for a kid's movie. and lotso just made me want to cry. but that's hilarious. my mom's an ESFJ, though, i don't get the same kind of energy from her as i do from this woman, even when mom's stressed out and directive. unless she's like an ESFJ 8w7, and really low on the J side, which i suppose could be true but i would be sort of surprised for a J 8 to be low-J. because my boss basically of gets in her own way all the time. it would be totally counterproductive to 8's point. nah, i'm ditching 8.

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Disorganized maybe - but not necessarily liking the mess. Just too busy too straighten it up - prioritizes time and activities like a J - would prefer that a lackey does the necessary grunt work of cleaning and straightening. I would rather like to know if this boss schedules her time, and if she tends to over-schedule. "Gets things done" is more of a J trait. I would believe the OP that this person is a J, and that only the S/N is in question.
    i definitely see what you mean, but she actually likes the mess. or at least, she doesn't see it as a problem. i tried organizing something while she was there and she told me it was a waste of time and i should do something else. i explained to her that i was organizing because i couldn't find the materials i needed to do my job, and she just dug in the pile, handed me what i needed, and sent me away. she does schedule in terms of writing things down but she's not very effective at it... she constantly loses track of special requests and tends to miss details. this is why i hesitate with ESFJ or ESTJ - she's just not a detail-oriented person, at all. and if she's one of those two types, her Fe is spiky or her Te is counterproductive. it doesn't seem to add up.

    The ENTJ does things with more flare [edit - also has an over-all mellower disposition than ESTJ], and has more external narcissism than the ESTJ. The latter does not care to do things with style, is less of a "peacock," and just likes to get things done.
    haha this is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Manipulator. She knows how you feel about her, but doesn't care. Work comes before play. (Not a P.) She talks nice to you when SHE wants something. How easily we all fall for that superficial pretense of "liking" us as people and not as tools.
    the interesting thing is that she's nice when she doesn't need something. like, she'll thank you when she's passing the job off on you because that's something off her back. she's very nice after work, and she's genuinely nice (not warm, really, but just nice) when she doesn't have something that she's worried about. it's just like, when she's got some task on hand, she cares about that task and couldn't really care less about you at the moment. the task takes priority. and then once the task is done or at least delegated she'll be nice again. i think she does genuinely care but she just gets distracted and concerned. she did feel very bad for someone when they had a tragedy happen in their family, so it's not like she's totally heartless.

    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    my boss
    she is pretty stereotypically bad boss. she reminds me of the boss in dilbert, except more energetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I would describe this management style as "head up ass," but that does not qualify it as a disorganized P. There is simply too little time and too much to do, and she doesn't have the brains to simplify things. I'm guessing she will literally make things more difficult, even for herself. This has the effect of making her appear to be a "hard, task-oriented worker," at least to herself. The self-image is what counts here. We may see it as "head up ass" whereas she sees it as extremely diligent and competent maintaining of control over self and environment.
    it's sooo head up ass. she does make things more difficult. it drives me nuts. i think you're totally right. she thinks she's in control and she thinks that others are hindering it because we're trying to do things that she doesn't see the importance of. she's concerned about some aspect that doesn't really impact anything but she's decided it's a priority, while i'm taking 20 minutes longer than necessary to complete my task because i can't find a damn pencil. (i've started bringing my own pencils, seriously).

    i don't mean to hate on her so much, really, i just think she's very poorly suited to her job. i think she's a 7 on the enneagram, SLU?I and i'm thinking ESTP now, and being a group supervisor really just doesn't work out with her personality. i'm not sure how she got the job or why she stays, but she always seems in a bad mood. i wish she would change jobs for everyone's sake. i know we would be happier and i think she would be a lot happier, too.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i definitely see what you mean, but she actually likes the mess. or at least, she doesn't see it as a problem. i tried organizing something while she was there and she told me it was a waste of time and i should do something else. i explained to her that i was organizing because i couldn't find the materials i needed to do my job, and she just dug in the pile, handed me what i needed, and sent me away.
    It's a mentally organized pile. She knows where she put it in the pile so don't mess with things or she will have to waste important time finding them. This description is just not unknown to me whatsoever. In fact, I live with this everyday. ESTJ. The time-constraint is important here, as well as priorities. It's that way for a reason.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    the interesting thing is that she's nice when she doesn't need something. like, she'll thank you when she's passing the job off on you because that's something off her back. she's very nice after work, and she's genuinely nice (not warm, really, but just nice) when she doesn't have something that she's worried about. it's just like, when she's got some task on hand, she cares about that task and couldn't really care less about you at the moment. the task takes priority. and then once the task is done or at least delegated she'll be nice again. i think she does genuinely care but she just gets distracted and concerned. she did feel very bad for someone when they had a tragedy happen in their family, so it's not like she's totally heartless.
    No, not totally heartless at all. Only relentless in pursuit of the goal. They can be quite congenial otherwise, but not, as you said, in a warm kind of way. There is a kind of rigid dichotomy between work and play.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #14
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    It's a mentally organized pile. She knows where she put it in the pile so don't mess with things or she will have to waste important time finding them. This description is just not unknown to me whatsoever. In fact, I live with this everyday. ESTJ. The time-constraint is important here, as well as priorities. It's that way for a reason.
    Edit - I should qualify this point a bit. You were messing with her personal pile (even if it's not all hers but a conglomerate of different things). She would like everything to be neat as a pin, but there's just no time. She will get around to straightening it up eventually, or she will send a lackey to do it, but it's not a priority.

    All I can say is that it's about strategizing with time-constraints, and setting priorities. The idea that one can type according to personal neatness should be set aside. There is a structure to the mess, you just can't see it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #15
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Disorganized maybe - but not necessarily liking the mess. Just too busy too straighten it up - prioritizes time and activities like a J - would prefer that a lackey does the necessary grunt work of cleaning and straightening. I would rather like to know if this boss schedules her time, and if she tends to over-schedule. "Gets things done" is more of a J trait. I would believe the OP that this person is a J, and that only the S/N is in question.i definitely see what you mean, but she actually likes the mess. or at least, she doesn't see it as a problem. i tried organizing something while she was there and she told me it was a waste of time and i should do something else. i explained to her that i was organizing because i couldn't find the materials i needed to do my job, and she just dug in the pile, handed me what i needed, and sent me away. she does schedule in terms of writing things down but she's not very effective at it... she constantly loses track of special requests and tends to miss details. this is why i hesitate with ESFJ or ESTJ - she's just not a detail-oriented person, at all. and if she's one of those two types, her Fe is spiky or her Te is counterproductive. it doesn't seem to add up.
    I agree with you- most Js seem to be conscious of their mess, and see it as a problem but not priority #1. (Well this ESFJ slob I work with might be the exception), so yeah, maybe you have an ExTP on your hands. I don't tend to find a lot of them in Corporate America

  6. #16
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Don't know what type she is but she sounds like she's over her head. She appears to enjoy her perception of being a lynch pin but the reality is that she's a bottleneck. Are you her assistant?

  7. #17
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I agree with you- most Js seem to be conscious of their mess, and see it as a problem but not priority #1. (Well this ESFJ slob I work with might be the exception), so yeah, maybe you have an ExTP on your hands. I don't tend to find a lot of them in Corporate America
    I think she's confusing "getting the job done" with "how the job gets done." The important thing for the J is getting from A to B. In the middle may be a pure chaos, but in the end B is achieved. And it only seems like pure chaos to you and me. To the boss, it is an achievement in the making.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    The interesting thing about her responses to me is that she agrees with me almost all the time - and never about the ESTJ part. But I am precisely describing an ESTJ in action. Everything she agrees with me about describes the ESTJ. I just can't get across the fact that the structure of the Si is in the mind.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #19
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I agree with you- most Js seem to be conscious of their mess, and see it as a problem but not priority #1. (Well this ESFJ slob I work with might be the exception), so yeah, maybe you have an ExTP on your hands. I don't tend to find a lot of them in Corporate America
    You've almost got it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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