Could you help me ? *Long post*

[Inconnue]

Hello,

I’ve read and learnt about the MBTI system and functions lately. All of this is still confusing to me because I don’t trust myself to be so objective that I can truly make a decision about my type right now. Therefore, I need your help. I am not asking you to all agree on the type, I am not making a poll either and deciding that what most people type me as is my real type (I don’t believe in polls and statistics so much, there’s always a possibility of it being wrong). I am just asking for your honest opinion, whether I like it or not, so I could use it as a tool for introspection and make more research about myself (in order to improve, etc.) and perhaps consider this question differently (including, rethinking the way I use the different functions).

First of all, I am sure I am an Introvert and a Thinker, I believe I may be a Judger but I am less sure about this fact. I accepted it mostly from reading description when I first came across the MBTI system and also because I seem to score as a J most of the time.
I don’t mind you telling me that I am definitely a Feeler or an Extrovert but I will probably not take it into consideration, especially for the “Extrovert” part, that would be extremely ridiculous in my opinion.

So, let’s try to write something clear and unbiased for once. (Barely possible.)

First of all, why am I an Introvert ?
I like people but I tend to dislike their company. I can’t deal with groups, I am more at ease when talking with only one person.
I am a bit asocial and either extremely quiet or too talkative. I don’t enjoy small talk unless one has become a close friend (and I only have two close friends, which is more than fine for me) and am apparently seen as arrogant when I start talking because of that.
I feel exhausted when I am surrounded by people, I have trouble staying awake after an hour among people.
I deal with children better but I am probably socially immature.

Then, a messy introduction of who I am.
I suffer from dyspraxia, apparently, this probably mess a bit with my functions. I am face blind, pathologically clumsy, disorganised, have no sense of scales, mostly blind to any form of non verbal communication and may take thing literally though I do use metaphors (unusual ones sometimes, I do write poetry after all) and sarcasm.

I am not an impulsive or spontaneous person, but I do get lost in obsessions quite often (right now, it’s Doctor Who, before it was The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy or Star Wars or Linguistics or Shakespeare or 1984, etc). I have always been rather extreme in my attitude when something catches my interest (like, I’ve seen Men in Black more than 100 times when I was a teenager because my goal was to watch it at least 99 times).
This is a bit mad and useless, I admit it.

I don’t deal well with feelings though I have learnt to work with mine. I have a great self-control but I do admit that I was extremely emotive as a teenager. I’ve never been good at comforting people or realising their feelings though. I missed the fact that my cousin had depression last year and when I was 12, I tried to comfort my friend who had lost her dog by saying : “Oh, I like dogs” because I thought I was showing compassion.
She was rather pissed.
Now, I use logic in order to say what people expect me to say or I use humour to make them feel better.

I am sure I am an unhealthy kind of any type, being insecure, extremely nerdy, shy, inattentive and socially immature.

As I said, I am rather disorganised. My bedroom is a mess, I tend to be hoarder sometimes though I don’t have much possessions, I’m always losing something. I couldn’t work at the university without my laptop because I would always lose important papers and lessons. I am also a compulsive daydreamer, easily distracted, I procrastinate all the time to avoid failure due to a lack of abilities and also because I’m very lazy.
I have poor spatial and temporal awareness.
However, I organise random collections (but fail at decorating so it looks ugly), files in my laptop, tea boxes and books. I am also always planning things in my head, more or less depending on what’s on my mind, I also make several scenarios and adjust my plans as time passes.
And I can’t stand other’s people mess.

If there’s something I might agree with when other people describe me it’s that I am probably narcissistic, arrogant or egotist.
I literally live in my head, am almost constantly disconnected from the real world. I recreate the world in my mind, I also make random theories and enjoy making up jokes or absurd logic.
I observe people, try to understand how they interact and what it tells me about the world, the different cultures and perhaps the human nature but don't go past the theories, I can't use my knowledge apparently.

And I should be ashamed to admit that I do find lots of people rather stupid when they do not meet my expectations, mostly those who refuse to wonder about life, take everything for granted (including the fact that “science can explain everything” because I do consider that it says “how” but not “why”), are too emotive and impulsive, are always changing their minds and turning life into drama, those who seem to be only responding to their body functions or those who follow blindly cultural customs.
I say I value intelligence but have to admit that I am socially dumb and would fail in many subject due to a lack of knowledge or interest, I probably overestimate my intelligence most of the time.

I am extremely dumb in the sense that I can’t guess what’s in people’s head and when they ask me to do something; I need them to explain it properly, in details, or make a list so I won’t forget anything, especially when it’s something I have to do that isn’t one of the things I am good at or requires me to “act” rather than think. However, I am pretty good at working on my own and make my own decisions.

I have many idealistic ideas about the world but I am aware that it cannot be applied to the non idealistic world in which we live, in a way I am in contradiction with myself, being both an idealist and a realist.

I’m still wondering why there is a question about whether we prefer essays or multiple choice questionnaires in some online MBTI test because we all have different reasons for that but I’d say I prefer essays because :
-we rarely have MCQ in my country,
-I like to argue and think about something, I don’t like to learn something just to repeat it without any critical thinking,
-I definitely love debating, even with myself,
-I think it’s a more intelligent exercise.

What do my close friends think of me ?
I’m not going to take into consideration other’s people opinion, I don’t really care and I’m rarely honest with them when I don’t feel that they are extremely important to me.
I could say, though, that my mother and I argue a lot about the fact that I, apparently, “think too much”, “ask myself too many questions and can’t act”, “live in a bubble”, “is too asocial”.

My best friend thinks I am annoyingly intellectual and don’t respond emotionally the way she expects me too, she considers that I am arrogant, somewhat rude and take things too literally because I like words too much (I like to learn about etymology and how words have changed, I miss some of her jokes, criticised a website she loves because it said that people used critical thinking when all they do is saying : “this is rubbish because I don’t like it”). I like to be right and start debating too much and, for God’s sake, I should stop overanalysing everything, it’s irritating !
However, she enjoys my sense of humour (unusual for a woman, nerdy, witty sometimes) and my weirdness.

My other friend thinks I am definitely not arrogant, that I definitely have feelings, she considers me to be intelligent and interesting though asocial and probably a bit insane. She also considers that I am totally “out of social norms”. She likes my cynicism and sense of humour, doesn’t mind my nerdiness but consider that I am extremely blind to social convention / interactions.

They like the fact that I don’t hold grudge and accept criticism sometimes.

Thank you for reading this extremely long post. It sure is an habit of mine to write too much.

Possible enneagram type : 1 or 5

 

[Savage Idealist]

Welcome to the forums Inconnue :hi:

INTP is probably most likely, perhaps followed by INFP. I see a lot of Ti analyzing in your post, in addition to brainstorming Ne, and what also appears to be inferior Fe. Enneagram wise, you seem like a 5w4, I think.

And as a side note, do you think you might actually have Asperger's Syndrome? It's just that you seem to possess a lot of the traits associated with it, and I personally know about it because I have it myself.

 

[Oberon]

I literally live in my head, am almost constantly disconnected from the real world.

NT alert... NT alert...

 

[Inconnue]

Welcome to the forums Inconnue :hi:

INTP is probably most likely, perhaps followed by INFP. I see a lot of Ti analyzing in your post, in addition to brainstorming Ne, and what also appears to be inferior Fe. Enneagram wise, you seem like a 5w4, I think.

Interesting, I usually get I*TJ in tests (but don't really believe in their accuracy), sometimes INTP. Enneagram test results tend to be 5w6. Function tests fluctuate but Ni and Ti are the strongest. I have trouble truly getting the order through reading descriptions because they aren't always the same. Se and Fe are quite weak though. I tend to consider Se to be my weakest function.

I remember that the first time I took the test and tried not to analyse the questions too much, the result was : Ti Te Ni Ne Fi Fe Si Se. The second time, it was Ni Ti Ne Te Fi Si Fe Se. But that's just a test, really.

I always thought I was more some kind of lazy Judger because I am a planner but I do relate with the INTP description sometimes (I've considered it but my friends have read a bit about INTJs and ISTJ and think that I'm more like that sometimes, mostly for the planning and routine part). Also thought I'd be more of a sensor for some reasons because I try to be realistic, am bothered by sensory issues and well, I like to be accurate in certain domains and use / learn facts, evidences, details.
However, it is true that I am rather inattentive to details and when I have to focus on them, I miss the big picture instead. The thing is, I don't rely on experience but rarely trust my instinct. I don't think I'm incredibly good with patterns or anything.

And as a side note, do you think you might actually have Asperger's Syndrome? It's just that you seem to possess a lot of the traits associated with it, and I personally know about it because I have it myself.

Never thought about it, as I said, I already have a diagnosis (early childhood) and from what I've read, dyspraxia seems to be close to Asperger's Syndrome sometimes. In any case, I'm sure it makes it more difficult to really guess the type but I'm pretty sure one's type might interfere with the disorder as well (change the way we live with it or are affected by it).
It makes the connection between the two quite interesting.

I admit I have trouble understanding the differences between Ni-Te and Ne-Ti (not much with Se and Si).

 

[entropie]

Welcome to the forum. I drank too much wine already to read all the text but wanted to say hello

 

[Savage Idealist]

Originally posted by Inconnue
Interesting, I usually get I*TJ in tests (but don't really believe in their accuracy), sometimes INTP. Enneagram test results tend to be 5w6. Function tests fluctuate but Ni and Ti are the strongest. I have trouble truly getting the order through reading descriptions because they aren't always the same. Se and Fe are quite weak though. I tend to consider Se to be my weakest function.

Well, it is important to be skeptical of tests, as they cannot perfectly lead you to what your type is, only give you an idea of where it may be. Also, dichotomy tests are completely different than function tests, as they're both different personality systems, so there shouldn't be any surprise if you score INTJ under one yet INTP under another. Also, strong use of NI and Ti with weak Se would be an indication of INFJ, although you also claim to have weak Fe, hm...

I remember that the first time I took the test and tried not to analyse the questions too much, the result was : Ti Te Ni Ne Fi Fe Si Se. The second time, it was Ni Ti Ne Te Fi Si Fe Se. But that's just a test, really.

wow, that would basically make you a near cross between INTJ and INTP

I always thought I was more some kind of lazy Judger because I am a planner but I do relate with the INTP description sometimes (I've considered it but my friends have read a bit about INTJs and ISTJ and think that I'm more like that sometimes, mostly for the planning and routine part). Also thought I'd be more of a sensor for some reasons because I try to be realistic, am bothered by sensory issues and well, I like to be accurate in certain domains and use / learn facts, evidences, details.
However, it is true that I am rather inattentive to details and when I have to focus on them, I miss the big picture instead. The thing is, I don't rely on experience but rarely trust my instinct. I don't think I'm incredibly good with patterns or anything.

Well being a judger doesn't mean you have to be an organized neat freak, rather you look towards the outer world with more structure. Also, from what you mentioned about being an Si, seems like that could just be some T + Si/Se or something of that sort.

Never thought about it, as I said, I already have a diagnosis (early childhood) and from what I've read, dyspraxia seems to be close to Asperger's Syndrome sometimes. In any case, I'm sure it makes it more difficult to really guess the type but I'm pretty sure one's type might interfere with the disorder as well (change the way we live with it or are affected by it).
It makes the connection between the two quite interesting.

Just thought I would mention it since you do also seem to possess some other traits of Aspergers, although I do agree, both Aspergers and Dyspraxia can make the process of discovering type slightly more difficult.

I admit I have trouble understanding the differences between Ni-Te and Ne-Ti (not much with Se and Si).

Ni conceptualizes ideas independent of outside influence from the external world. Ni forsees possibilities, invisions what will happen, it comes to sudden realizations when it 'sees' the big picture. Te is about external logic; it systemizes, organizes, and influences the outer portions of the world to be more efficiently and act objectively logical.

Ne is more concerned with brainstorming, playing with random ideas, or creating theories. Ne is all about 'what if' or I wonder if x is y, what do you guys think?' kind of thinking. Ti is about analyzing stuff, categorizing data, and working off independently frameworks of logic. Ti is presicely logical and concerned with consitency and validity.

This is also why INTJ's are sometimes stereotyped as chess master and INTP's are stereotyped as philosophers; the chess master forsees what an opponent will do and acts in the most efficient manner possible to win, while the philosophy analyzes the shit out of everything while building logical theories to the world in the process.

 

[Inconnue]

Thank you for the description, it makes more sense to me. I would be more of a Ti-Ne user then... and stereotypically, I've been consider "a little philosopher" since I was seven (though, what people mean by that is mostly : you ask yourself questions we would never have thought about).



The function tests are probably wrong, I can see various way of interpreting or considering the questions which can change dramatically my answers. I am mostly disturbed by the fact that most answers seem to indicate strong and unique abilities while I'm rather ordinary and really don't think I could claim to be some kind of genius.

I know two different tests on the Internet.

This morning, one tells me that I use :
Ni Ne Ti Te Fi Fe Si Se
(Which, to work properly, would make me an ENTP, I think).

The other doesn't seem to agree :
Ti Fi Te Ne Si Ni Fe Se

The more I take these tests, the stranger the results become (and I've never score so high on Fi) !

I guess it'd be easier to try to analyse them by myself but I am not sure about my objectivity.
I can relate to most functions except Fe (which seems to be more traditional and seeking harmony and relationships than Fi) and Se (especially Se).


And I used to wish I was an INFJ, that'd be lovely (INF* seem to be amazing when healthy), I tried many times to be a Feeler when I was younger (on tests) because all of my friends were feelers (hello peer pressure, though I was proud to be a thinker at first) but I fit the stereotype of the thinker.
And I've made my mind on the F/T part, had time to analyse it and it was rather easy.
Even when I engage in some artistic activity, I use logic (after and a bit during the composition, I mostly start on impulse), analyse my work, change it according to my knowledge and what I want to do, have fun with the structure, etc. I don't believe in artists being driven only by instinct and emotions (though I'm sure not all Fs think that way).

Perhaps I am just extremely unbalanced.

Thank you, entropie.

 

[Red Herring]

Hmmm, I smell INTP. However, no need to rush to a definitive diagnosis. Chances are things will become clearer as you hang around on the forum and observe other people and types.

Oh, and welcome!

 

[Mal12345]

This test will tell you what your preferred function is. test
But yes, it sounds like you're mostly intp. Do you have a psychiatric or GP diagnosis such as Aspberger's Syndrome or something? And which tests tell you about Ni Ne Ti Te Fi Fe Si Se? Do you think it's impossible to be a mixed type?

 

[Savage Idealist]

Originally posted by Inconnue
Thank you for the description, it makes more sense to me. I would be more of a Ti-Ne user then... and stereotypically, I've been consider "a little philosopher" since I was seven (though, what people mean by that is mostly : you ask yourself questions we would never have thought about).



The function tests are probably wrong, I can see various way of interpreting or considering the questions which can change dramatically my answers. I am mostly disturbed by the fact that most answers seem to indicate strong and unique abilities while I'm rather ordinary and really don't think I could claim to be some kind of genius.

I know two different tests on the Internet.

This morning, one tells me that I use :
Ni Ne Ti Te Fi Fe Si Se
(Which, to work properly, would make me an ENTP, I think).

The other doesn't seem to agree :
Ti Fi Te Ne Si Ni Fe Se

The more I take these tests, the stranger the results become (and I've never score so high on Fi) !

I guess it'd be easier to try to analyse them by myself but I am not sure about my objectivity.
I can relate to most functions except Fe (which seems to be more traditional and seeking harmony and relationships than Fi) and Se (especially Se).

Don't take the tests too seriously, they cannot soley determine your type for you, only you yourself, and to a lesser ectent, those that know you well can properly type you. What I mean by this is that there are some things about you personality that you meay not even be aware of, but others are; you may percieve yourself as something different than what you are on the outside yet, thus other people may be able to know who you are on the outside. I addition though, there are some things about who you are on the inside, the way you think and feel, that are only known to you; thus a certain aspect of yourself can only be typed by yourself. Now this doesn't have to fully apply to everyone, it just depends on who objectively you can see yourself, and how subjectively you can know yourself.

Thus when you read about the functions (here's a site that describes them real well: http://www.bestfittype.com/cognitiveprocesses.html), you must think about each and determine which ones who actively use in life and which ones you do not. Then your true type will be more clear to you.

And I used to wish I was an INFJ, that'd be lovely (INF* seem to be amazing when healthy), I tried many times to be a Feeler when I was younger (on tests) because all of my friends were feelers (hello peer pressure, though I was proud to be a thinker at first) but I fit the stereotype of the thinker.
And I've made my mind on the F/T part, had time to analyse it and it was rather easy.
Even when I engage in some artistic activity, I use logic (after and a bit during the composition, I mostly start on impulse), analyse my work, change it according to my knowledge and what I want to do, have fun with the structure, etc. I don't believe in artists being driven only by instinct and emotions (though I'm sure not all Fs think that way).

Perhaps I am just extremely unbalanced.

You should be careful not to act like someone you're not; by changing who you truly are to meet the social similarities of peers or to become what yoo dream of, then you are not being true to yourself and you will never know your true type. For example I thought that because I was so analytical that I was INTP, but it wasn't until later that I realized being slightly analytical does not mean I was a Ti dom, rather I was always much more of an aloof guy on the outside, yet I on the inside I was guided more by my feelings and values. Whether my Aspergers or being a male or having good Ti use influenced my thought of me as INTP I am not sure . That said, it is quite possible that you are a somewhat unbalanced type, in that you could easily be on of the NT's.

I hope my information was of use to you.

 

[Inconnue]

This test will tell you what your preferred function is. test

T-N-S-F

Do you have a psychiatric or GP diagnosis such as Aspberger's Syndrome or something?

As I said before, dyspraxia. Asperger's Syndrome isn't something you can get easily diagnosed with in my country anyway so I'll stick with the dyspraxia diagnosis. ^^

And which tests tell you about Ni Ne Ti Te Fi Fe Si Se?

Here.
And here.

But I don't consider them to be extremely accurate, well, most tests aren't because they don't really take into consideraton subjectivity, paradox, the complexity of one and aren't extremely clear.

Do you think it's impossible to be a mixed type?

I think personality is extremely complex and I definetely think that one can be more or less in a grey area, the main functions (E/I - S/N - T/F - J/P) are obvious preferences in human beings but I think we tend more to one side or another but are on a spectrum therefore some people may be right in the middle. I don't really take the MBTI system for granted, I'm interested in it and how it works and it definitely works well with some people (my mother is a textbook case of her own type, she's one of the rare obvious one).

However, I do like the categories, it can be a useful tool to understand oneself better, mainly understand how we change, use our preferences or try to learn something else, etc. It seems more useful in this regard to correspond to a category.

I am... rather uncertain because I have a desire to understand the system, accept it and find my type to progress but I still can't take it for granted and think it's a bit too manichean sometimes (though most people I've talked with explained that we learn how to use other functions while still having our preferences which means we do have a real type).

I think I'm a bit stereotypical sometimes, I can easily fall into other unrelated and uninteresting categories like "nerd", so why not a type ?

EDIT : Sorry SavageIdealist, I hadn't read your post when I wrote this, I was watching Doctor Who and forgot to send my message. I've read a lot about the different functions, I'm still trying to understand how they apply to me which is why I take test in between. I no longer try to copy people, I try to be better but true to myself because I felt aweful copying others and it didn't work at all.

 

[Savage Idealist]

Originally posted by Inconnue
EDIT : Sorry SavageIdealist, I hadn't read your post when I wrote this, I was watching Doctor Who and forgot to send my message. I've read a lot about the different functions, I'm still trying to understand how they apply to me which is why I take test in between. I no longer try to copy people, I try to be better but true to myself because I felt aweful copying others and it didn't work at all.

That's ok, you don't have to respond to my post immediately plus who wouldn't be distracted by Doctor Who (which I need to start watching myself btw ). It's good to know though, that you no longer copy others and stay true to who you are

 

[Mal12345]

This test will tell you what your preferred function is. test

T-N-S-F


As I said before, dyspraxia. Asperger's Syndrome isn't something you can get easily diagnosed with in my country anyway so I'll stick with the dyspraxia diagnosis. ^^


Here.
And here.

But I don't consider them to be extremely accurate, well, most tests aren't because they don't really take into consideraton subjectivity, paradox, the complexity of one and aren't extremely clear.


I think personality is extremely complex and I definetely think that one can be more or less in a grey area, the main functions (E/I - S/N - T/F - J/P) are obvious preferences in human beings but I think we tend more to one side or another but are on a spectrum therefore some people may be right in the middle. I don't really take the MBTI system for granted, I'm interested in it and how it works and it definitely works well with some people (my mother is a textbook case of her own type, she's one of the rare obvious one).

However, I do like the categories, it can be a useful tool to understand oneself better, mainly understand how we change, use our preferences or try to learn something else, etc. It seems more useful in this regard to correspond to a category.

I am... rather uncertain because I have a desire to understand the system, accept it and find my type to progress but I still can't take it for granted and think it's a bit too manichean sometimes (though most people I've talked with explained that we learn how to use other functions while still having our preferences which means we do have a real type).

I think I'm a bit stereotypical sometimes, I can easily fall into other unrelated and uninteresting categories like "nerd", so why not a type ?

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.

I didn't see dyspraxia as something I could work with in determining personality type. Aspberger's people probably fall within a certain range of type. But that only goes for Aspberger's people I've met, I don't know of any correlations study between Aspberger's and typology. And anyway, Aspberger's is not considered in the USA to be a valid diagnosis anymore, it is simply referred to as high-level or functional autism.

I'm happy to see you're not set on the MBTI which I see as little better than the personality tests found in Cosmo magazine. They're fun to take, but they have limited usefulness. The MBTI's rise in popularity can be explained by the fact that it was first (if you don't count ancient Greek typology), and it has some addictive quality about it.

As for your mother's type, perhaps she is a less complex person, such as extraverts tend to be, then she will be more readily typecast. What you see is what you get pretty much defines the extraverts, in a sense. The simple advice to "Live, love, laugh" is an especially true descriptor of the Fe.

By "manichean" are you referring to dichotomies? These are a simplistic route to type-casting. It is part of what makes the MBTI so addicting, and it is also part of what makes the MBTI, in theory, invalid as a whole. I say "in theory" because it's not to say the stereotypes (such as your mother) don't exist. There are enough of them out there to give the MBTI the semblance of validity and truth.

But one of the hazards of the MBTI is that we can waste years of our lives navel-gazing the question as to why our own personalities don't seem to fit into the system while others seem to mesh quite well with it. Why can't we belong too? Perhaps we went searching for an answer to ourselves, such as the MBTI, and only found ourselves burdened with more questions, frustrated that it didn't work as well for us as it did for others, and waste more years "peeling the onion" to find out what went wrong. But in fact, it might be the MBTI that went wrong, and our belief in the MBTI is based on the shallow assumption that what finds popularity in society is necessarily true.

 

[Inconnue]

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Mal12345]

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I can't argue with that.

 

[Hazashin]

Looks like you and I are on similar boats and are similar personality-wise, though not completely.

You said:

I like people but I tend to dislike their company. I can’t deal with groups, I am more at ease when talking with only one person.
I am a bit asocial and either extremely quiet or too talkative.

For me, I like people and I enjoy their company (as long as they aren't unfriendly), but my thing is I usually never proactively seek for socialization with anyone other than my close friends. A large part of this has a lot to do with the fact that I'm socially awkward and uncomfortable around people I don't know well. But I'll never turn down anyone who wants to talk to me or be my friend. I suppose you could say I am a passive socializer.

You said:

I don’t enjoy small talk unless one has become a close friend (and I only have two close friends, which is more than fine for me) and am apparently seen as arrogant when I start talking because of that.

I also dislike small talk, and this is in large part because I find it boring and I don't know how to do it since I've never had much of need of using it growing up because I hardly ever socialized outside my social group.

You said:

I feel exhausted when I am surrounded by people, I have trouble staying awake after an hour among people.

This is true for me when I'm around a crowd of people. For example, when I had to go to church with my family on Easter and all the people were standing and singing along to the gospel music, I found it exhausting while most everyone else there seemed to get energy from it.

You said:

I am not an impulsive or spontaneous person, but I do get lost in obsessions quite often [...].

So do I!

You said:

As I said, I am rather disorganised. My bedroom is a mess, I tend to be hoarder sometimes though I don’t have much possessions, I’m always losing something. I couldn’t work at the university without my laptop because I would always lose important papers and lessons. I am also a compulsive daydreamer, easily distracted, I procrastinate all the time to avoid failure due to a lack of abilities and also because I’m very lazy.
I am also always planning things in my head, more or less depending on what’s on my mind, I also make several scenarios and adjust my plans as time passes.

This is also true for me (for the most part). I always find the last dichotomy to be hardest to type for myself with MBTI.

You said:

And I should be ashamed to admit that I do find lots of people rather stupid when they do not meet my expectations, mostly those who refuse to wonder about life, take everything for granted (including the fact that “science can explain everything” because I do consider that it says “how” but not “why”), are too emotive and impulsive, are always changing their minds and turning life into drama, those who seem to be only responding to their body functions or those who follow blindly cultural customs.

Now this... I cannot relate to. I don't tend to get upset over incompetence as much as some people. And I have genuine concern for everyone. I probably have more Fe than you.

What I find annoying is when people try to cling to old, outdated, "traditional" values and beliefs, like the religious zealots, the right-wingers, the "fundamentalists," etc. and when people can't let go of grudges/become vindictive/vengeful/are unforgiving/are spiteful/hateful/are intolerant or prejudicative. It is a egocentric and "insular" way of viewing things. People like that can't think outside of themselves and outside of society's rules, labels, and judgment. I mean, really, why should someone be lost forever? Why can something be unforgivable? Why is something not "traditional" "bad?" People make mistakes, people are misguided, people are different, things change.

A good example of this is when the 'Roaring '20's' saw some radical view change. The "fundamentalists" got upset because people were deviating from old, "traditional" values. They disliked any differing views (which, I can be stubborn sometimes, but I am accepting of others'), such as evolution or liberality. They disliked foreigners. They dislike blacks. They disliked pacifists/communists/anarchists. They disliked atheists (*shakes head* those Christian, Protestant literalists). They disliked womans' rights movements (this one I especially can't stand). I mean, what the hell?

You said:

I have many idealistic ideas about the world but I am aware that it cannot be applied to the non idealistic world in which we live, in a way I am in contradiction with myself, being both an idealist and a realist.

Well, I wouldn't say that I'm an 'idealist' in that I always thinking about how the world could be better, but I am rather annoyed at the poor ethical development (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development) of the right-wingers of the world. I dislike hatred and vengeance, and basically the right-wing mantra.

You said:

I’m still wondering why there is a question about whether we prefer essays or multiple choice questionnaires in some online MBTI test because we all have different reasons for that but I’d say I prefer essays because:
- I like to argue and think about something, I don’t like to learn something just to repeat it without any critical thinking

Interesting... I personally prefer multiple choice by a long shot because it is very hard for me to come up with writing and putting my thoughts into words. Really, it takes me days to finish high school research essays. I mean, I like to argue too, but it's hard for me to organize it into words, if that makes sense. My teachers say it is because I lack creativity, which is true, I do.

As for Enneagram, I have either tested 4w5 or 6w5.

If anyone can help type me, please comment on my thread 'My Typology?'!

 

[Inconnue]

You mostly show that you are Introvert.


Unlike you, I wouldn't say that I am annoyed by the poor ethical development but I do value Reason as an ideal of the mankind and I'm rather annoyed by people who do not think out of their emotions and needs or traditional convention to wonder about ethic and find their own values (though reading philosophy and learning about religion can help).
I lack ethic in some aspect of my life (mostly in my curiosity) but I consider that "acting freely" without thinking or have moral values is completely stupid and show a lack of critical thinking or at least common sense (and a ridiculous tendency to become the slave of one's own passions).

I'm also annoyed by the fact that people think either that the world is better now (freedom, etc when it's actually another kind of slavery and humans tend to go to an extreme to another) or worse (of course, we didn't live in the past therefore, it must have been so much better), they concentrate only on the way they feel about the world as it is now and what they hear and respond to when there are so many things to take into account.

I've read that in another post :

That is actually quite useful information because I've read questions referring to things like that on personality tests. Daydreaming about winning an award someday etc. is a helpful typological trait to know about. I'm grateful you didn't delete it.

Different types engage in daydreams like that, and while they all do it for an escape, some types are more interested in the intensity of emotion gotten out of the experience than others. For some types it is just a way of spacing-out. The content of the daydream makes a difference too, of course. Some daydream about poetry and philosophy, others have daydreams like yours that are more focused on a fantasies about real things, such as an S would have.

It's interesting.

Most of the time, I have three kinds of fantasies I guess :

TYPE 1 -conversation with people (imaginary or not, I use real people's way of thinking and reacting to change the debate and make it more interesting). It's mostly a debate (sometimes a pretend game which become a mix between type 1 and type 3) about something I use to analyse many different aspect of, it can be anything from a tv programme to a question like the meaning of life or liberty.
TYPE 2 -conversation with myself : aka pondering about something
TYPE 3 -fictional world, imagining the future (future career or future of the universe) or another planet - I have a very complex inner world. I mostly use this one to fall asleep because the two other types keeps me awake.

During social activities, I also make various scenarios and conversations in my head according to what's going on when I observe. I may do it as well when I actually interact.

When I'm stressed, I tend to concentrate on what is about to happen in real life and that's how I consider future events and plan things.

 

[Hazashin]

Unlike you, I wouldn't say that I am annoyed by the poor ethical development but I do value Reason as an ideal of the mankind and I'm rather annoyed by people who do not think out of their emotions and needs or traditional convention to wonder about ethic and find their own values (though reading philosophy and learning about religion can help).

So wait, you don't care for the unfair/mis-treatment of humans?!? That's what poor ethical development leads to!

I'm not sure what you mean by the second part though when you say, "...but I do value [r]eason..."...

 

[Inconnue]

Hum... There's something wrong with my sentence now that I'm reading it again, I don't get its meaning.

What I mean, I think, is that, the world is and has always been rather unethical, ideally it wouldn't be because we'd be reasonnable (no need for laws and rules, non destructive anarchy) but though I have an ideal, I'm not really annoyed by reality, I accept it as a different world from my ideal (and there is also the possibility that things would be purely unethical).

In real life, I'm mostly annoyed by the fact that people don't think, and I am not talking about feelers vs thinkers, my brother is a thinker (and is somewhat intelligent) and has no critical thinking but do follow traditional values.

I am not really annoyed when someone lacks ethical values when they are questionning ethics and traditions to find their own values, I hope (because I may seem cynic but I am rather optimistic) that it will lead to making the right decisions at least when it comes to some values (harming / killing others is extremely stupid when you think about it because it's not hard to know that you would probably not like it for example).

But as for the unfair treatment of humans, I am not sure honestly, I think there's something in the human nature (instincts, we are animals) that lead us to violence and everything (or almost) screams "survival of the fittest" and "I want to be powerful".

I'm not saying that it's good, ideally it wouldn't be like that, but that's the way it is and I guess there's some balancing act between good and evil which makes it innevitable. When we think about it, nobody's ever been able to truly change this fact, everything is unfair in reality because we are not really equals.

I am annoyed by individual who don't try to think and understand most by the way the world is as a whole, probably because they are closer to the reality I see and it's harder to be detached from this fact. And I am really annoyed by people who believe they are moral beings because they are religious/follow the rules/are traditional but didn't even questionned what they believe in.

I mean, first, to be concerned about / annoyed by the poor ethical development, we should define ethics, define why it is poorly developed, probably compared between different ideologies/possibilities/eras, ponder about the human nature and how/why we consider certain values, etc. Because ethics are mostly defined through cultural values, even when we generalise them, perhaps there it is acceptable to treat people differently to some extent, then we'd have to define to which extent and why we think that way.
I can't be truly annoyed by what we could call a/the poor ethical development because I need to define it first and because I don't seem to be troubled by the fact that reality is different from my ideal, I've seen many people be sad because of this though.

I don't think it means that I have no values, perhaps I lack a bit in the ethical department but I do have principles, I just somehow think the world doesn't need to be like this, and it makes it more interesting to question/observe and analyse by the way. With this, I can wonder why people act this way, what they think, why is the world like that, what other possibilities exist and all of this makes me happy because I have something to think about.

 

[Savage Idealist]

Yeah, you're definitely an INTx of some sort, and I'd know for certain judging by your last post, except I suck at deciphering whether or not you are using Ti/Fe or Te/Fi, sorry