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  1. #1
    Sniffles
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    Default Enneagram 4w5 or 5w4?

    I dunno, I've always wondered about this. I remember one Enneagram quiz rated me at around 81% for 5 but 79% for 4; which seems to indicate that whichever way I am I have a very strong wing as well - which adds to the confusion cause there's so much I can relate to in both types. I usually associate myself with Four in part because I could more easily identify with its integration and disintegration points, plus the general tendency for INFJs to be 4w5s.

    So I'm just asking for others' suggestions or opinions. Do I seem more e4 or e5?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Well, while I don't know you personally very well, your posts have a distinct quality of detachment about them, in a positive way. My guess would be 5w4, possibly with a 9w1 or 1w9 in your tritype.

    In fact, have you considered 1w9? Your former sig quote about human rights and human responsibilities gave me a strong One vibe.

    Just my
    .

  3. #3
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Viridian, what's yours? Reminds me of how an sp/sx e91 infj friend presents himself.

    Peguy, maybe verify one way or the other by visiting the e5 subsection on Personality Cafe?; it's swimming with infj 5s.

    thinking of you

  4. #4
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    OTOH, I think INFJ for you is dead-on, Peguy. You have that "sage-like" aura that combines Ti's detachment and Fe's gentleness.

  5. #5
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Peguy, my general perception is that you have the 4w5 style romanticism over historical events and the downtrodden in those events. But, in order for me to make a valid conclusion about whether you are a 4w5 or 5w4, I need more information about how you respond to emotions. The marked difference between 4w5s and 5w4s is that 4w5s tend to have repressed feelings that they do not wish to express in front of others because they feel that they will be misunderstood; whereas the 5w4 tends to avoid emotions because they do not wish for their emotions to take control over them, more of a preference for using their minds and detaching from an emotional situation.

    Which applies the most for you?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  6. #6
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    Peguy, my general perception is that you have the 4w5 style romanticism over historical events and the downtrodden in those events. But, in order for me to make a valid conclusion about whether you are a 4w5 or 5w4, I need more information about how you respond to emotions. The marked difference between 4w5s and 5w4s is that 4w5s tend to have repressed feelings that they do not wish to express in front of others because they feel that they will be misunderstood; whereas the 5w4 tends to avoid emotions because they do not wish for their emotions to take control over them, more of a preference for using their minds and detaching from an emotional situation.

    Which applies the most for you?
    I would certainly have to say that I tend to shy away from expressing my emotions for fear of being misunderstood. I do fear my emotions taking control of me too, and try to detach myself from them as best I can with use of the mind. However I often notice one major concern in those situations is trying to understand my emotions rather than necessarily avoid them. I notice that when I understand my emotions is when I can best deal with them. If I can't understand them, well that just makes things worse.

    I hope this helps.

  7. #7
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I would certainly have to say that I tend to shy away from expressing my emotions for fear of being misunderstood. I do fear my emotions taking control of me too, and try to detach myself from them as best I can with use of the mind. However I often notice one major concern in those situations is trying to understand my emotions rather than necessarily avoid them. I notice that when I understand my emotions is when I can best deal with them. If I can't understand them, well that just makes things worse.

    I hope this helps.
    So in other words you tend to analyze your emotions and suppress them from being expressed out in the open. The fact your primary drive is to make sure your emotions are understood and a fear of vulnerability by expressing them, speaks more of a 4w5 trait. 5w4s would avoid emotions to avoid clouding their judgment, to make the most objective decision possible, use brains rather than the heart. Both are bookish and intellectual.

    It could be likely you have a very heavy 5 wing, so it would give you more 5 traits.

    Another way to bring this into perspective is to think of when you are studying a subject you enjoy... if you feel your heart tugging at you, getting excited and romanticizing the knowledge you are learning about; or conversely when learning about an unpleasant event in history causes a strong emotional reaction, you are more of a 4. A type 5 will tend to learn the information for knowledge's sake, but tend not to connect themselves personally to the events and people involved. They are passionate about the pursuit of knowledge.

    If it is any reassurance, I stand at the cusp of 4w5 and 5w4 too, but the thing that reminds me that I am more of a 4 is the fact that I get more emotionally worked up whenever I am learning something new, and it tends to inspire me on an artistic/emotional level as well as on an intellectual level. I'll end up being deeply inspired and moved by a theory or knowledge that rings home to me, and will write about it, or end up looking for art and music that reflects it. I tend to avoid appearing too emotionally worked up about something because I don't want my feelings to be hurt. If I tone the emotions down, then I don't have to worry about my heart being broken. It's kind of a defense mechanism to cope with sensitivity.

    Do you feel this is the case with you?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  8. #8
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    So in other words you tend to analyze your emotions and suppress them from being expressed out in the open. The fact your primary drive is to make sure your emotions are understood and a fear of vulnerability by expressing them, speaks more of a 4w5 trait. 5w4s would avoid emotions to avoid clouding their judgment, to make the most objective decision possible, use brains rather than the heart. Both are bookish and intellectual.

    It could be likely you have a very heavy 5 wing, so it would give you more 5 traits.

    Another way to bring this into perspective is to think of when you are studying a subject you enjoy... if you feel your heart tugging at you, getting excited and romanticizing the knowledge you are learning about; or conversely when learning about an unpleasant event in history causes a strong emotional reaction, you are more of a 4. A type 5 will tend to learn the information for knowledge's sake, but tend not to connect themselves personally to the events and people involved. They are passionate about the pursuit of knowledge.

    If it is any reassurance, I stand at the cusp of 4w5 and 5w4 too, but the thing that reminds me that I am more of a 4 is the fact that I get more emotionally worked up whenever I am learning something new, and it tends to inspire me on an artistic/emotional level as well as on an intellectual level. I'll end up being deeply inspired and moved by a theory or knowledge that rings home to me, and will write about it, or end up looking for art and music that reflects it. I tend to avoid appearing too emotionally worked up about something because I don't want my feelings to be hurt. If I tone the emotions down, then I don't have to worry about my heart being broken. It's kind of a defense mechanism to cope with sensitivity.

    Do you feel this is the case with you?
    Is that the case with me? Oh yes. Whenever I read about some new theory or writer and thinker I can relate very much to, my spirit just literally soars to the sky, and my head begin to swim like all hell with excited thoughts - and I try to note down as much as I can in my notebooks(which is not always easy as thoughts are racing at light speed).

    I'll have to come back to this as I'm rather preoccupied atm. But thank you, your posts have been very enlightening.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    CuriousFeeling'a assessment seems spot on. I maintain my position that you have either a 9w1 or a 1w9 in your Gut Center, though.

  10. #10
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Is that the case with me? Oh yes. Whenever I read about some new theory or writer and thinker I can relate very much to, my spirit just literally soars to the sky, and my head begin to swim like all hell with excited thoughts - and I try to note down as much as I can in my notebooks(which is not always easy as thoughts are racing at light speed).

    I'll have to come back to this as I'm rather preoccupied atm. But thank you, your posts have been very enlightening.
    Glad this could help.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




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