User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 41

Thread: A CLUE! A CLUE!

  1. #21
    perdu fleur par bologne Martoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,361

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    When it happens sometimes my first thought is "thank God, I'm not dead inside after all" or something like that. Hmm.
    Lol. Been there, done that.

    To be honest (not that I'm typically dishonest), I'm not into the whole MBTI science enough to be up on all the Fe Fi Fo Fum specifics, so I don't have much insight to offer on what your complete type might be based on what you said. Other people's comments in this thread are more useful. But what you described resonates with me, and I think it has something to do with being disconnected from your feelings in some way.

    Love the new avatar, btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rajah View Post
    Oh, Ivy. You're an N, for crying out loud.
    Heh heh heh. Rajah made a funny.

    But as usual, she's right. Based on your general persona online, and how you describe your life, I see much more N than S.
    I'm not a procrastinator. I'm a long-term planner.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6?
    Posts
    2,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martoon View Post
    But as usual, she's right. Based on your general persona online, and how you describe your life, I see much more N than S.

    Well - for the record, I do agree that Ivy is INFX (and I lean towards INFJ... not because she lacks self-involvement but she lacks a very specific effusiveness that every INFP I know possesses), but I think it would probably be harder to "see" S-ness online.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  3. #23
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,478

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    What's the opposite of resonate? Because I don't resonate with that much at all.
    lol, I didn't think so. You can cross that one off the list - you don't seem anything like my friend (and I think she's a similar age to you).

    That's a beautiful avatar, btw.

  4. #24
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's what I'm saying. Put another way, both Si and Se is the experiencing of real stimulation (not abstraction). Se is real-time, the stimulation is direct, and emotions raised come through body responses either inborn involuntary responses or behaviorally modified to respond instinctively a certain way -- but in any case the emotions are spawned right off the sense impression.

    (Example: You get hit in the head by a baseball -> It hurts -> You cry or get angry or respond in some other way.)

    Si is remembrance of PAST experience and stimulation. This can be just the data itself, as WELL as the person's response at THAT time to the data -- i.e., the emotional and response states also would get stored in the databanks and called up as part of the memory feed.

    (Example: You hear the crack of a bat. You recall getting hit in the head with the ball before and reexperience the memory of that emotion... albeit a little "muted" because it's not direct. The current emotion: You become frightened/wary looking for the incoming ball, along with any residual emotion coming from the memory.)

    So I don't really equate Se/Si with emotions per se, but they are closely tied because emotional states are perceived right alongside the data causing them.
    A couple points, then I really should drop it.

    I agree with you and Mempy about sensations being the building blocks of pretty much all thought. I made the same points in my first two posts in this thread: Sensation is one of the first ways we process the world as infants. So Sensation becomes kind of a main highway along which many things travel in our mind. But it doesn't mean that a thought process initially triggered by a sensation or associated with a sensation thereby becomes an Si process.

    In its purest form, an Si process is a one-to-one comparison. For example, you're eating in a restaurant and you notice the flavor of an unusual spice in the food. So you run through the memory of similar flavors and foods in your memory until you recall a match for the flavor and can identify the spice. In the example of recalling a spice, Si is a deliberative process, and it reaches into the past in order to compare like to like. But it doesn't involve a lot of introspection and/or exploring of associative "wormholes" leading from one memory to the next. It's just a deliberative one-to-one process. You don't know how to decorate your home? Rummage around in your memory until you can find an appropriate example from your recollections of friends' homes.

    To me, the following would not be an Si process:

    I'm eating in a restaurant and I notice the flavor of an unusual spice in the food. Suddenly I'm brought back to my childhood when my mother used to serve me the same dish for dinner. And I recall that I would then finish dinner just as dusk was setting in, and my mother would allow me to go play with the other kids until dark. And we would run around and catch fireflies in the summer dusk. And I recall how simple and fun life was back then, and I wonder if I've still managed to retain the fun and magic in my life since then. I recall the simple values I held in common with my childhood friends--our clubs, our loyalties, our common experiences--and I ask myself if they're still at the core of how I conduct myself. And so on and so on.

    To me, the latter experience is more of a state of "flow," perhaps Ni or Ne in nature. It goes far beyond the process of rummaging around in one's memory in order to compare an experience in the present to one in the past. In Ivy's case, she pursues a number of associations like thought wormholes. When one wormhole turns into a dead end, she returns to the song on the radio and it launches her down a new wormhole (she provides a bulleted list of four separate trains of thought or wormholes initiated by the song).

    Also, there's associative theme linking Ivy's thoughts, some sort of mother-daughter conflict. She is driving to her mother, with her kids in the car. A song comes on the radio: it's a lullaby her mother once sang to her as a child, and that Ivy now sings to her own children. It makes her think of her mother's mortality in the first train of thought or wormhole, and maybe gets her feeling vulnerable that she will one day be an orphan. So in the subsequent wormholes she revisits her childhood and finds reassurance by remembering the Quaker school where she was accorded a new adult-like independence and respect (i.e., ability to grow into adult roles); she thinks of the lyrics of the song and uses them to revisit her own ideals--and she finds them strong and steady enough to sustain her (presumably when her mother passes on). Finally she recalls that she has her own unique connection to the lullaby via a class at UNC--in essence she claims the lullaby as fully her own (presumably a symbolic reassurance that she can survive the death of her own mother and be a mother herself).

    Naturally I'm guessing at her associative thought processes. To get a firm read-out on what she was actually thinking, I would need to know her general relations with her mother, her mood that day, what she was thinking before the song came on the radio, etc. But it's all typical of an associative moment: Ivy's driving in a car to her mother's house with her kids in the car, perhaps thinking about her relations with her mother, then a song comes on the radio that has special meaning to Ivy, both as a vulnerable child being tended by her mother and as a mother tending her own children. So she goes into a series of associations about her dichotomous roles as child and mother and how they relate to her identity and values.

    But given this state of "flow," these freewheeling associations, and the Ni or Ne problem-solving quality of the associative process (using associations to reassure herself over some conflict in her relationship with her mother), it's hard to equate all this to a mere Si process--hearing the crack of a baseball bat and cringing because you were once hit on the head with a baseball. The associative process is not a one-to-one process. The associative process is about bringing an unconscious conflict to the surface, establishing some creative flow, and then massaging the problem with seemingly unrelated thoughts until the conflict is addressed in some manner.

    Okay, now that I've gone Freudian on you, I'll drop it. I'm really putting too much time and effort into this.

    (Ivy: My apologies for dissecting your thought processes. The scenario I described is all quite hypothetical. I'm just trying to demonstrate that there's more going on there than just a garden-variety Si process.)

  5. #25
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    FineLine, your insight is pretty freaking amazing.

    BTW I just totally cried again!
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #26
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    BTW I just totally cried again!

  7. #27
    Procrastinating
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    FineLine, your insight is pretty freaking amazing.

    BTW I just totally cried again!
    Yeh, and tells me I might as well just give up on trying to communicate effectively with my "S" hubby.... sheesh.

  8. #28
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5/8
    Socionics
    ENTp None
    Posts
    4,754

    Default

    xNtp

  9. #29
    RDF
    Guest

    Default

    Ivy:

    By the way, I've often wondered about your type myself. I figure I might as well go on record with a guess: ISFP or INFP, with a bias to ISFP.

    First off, I don't get much INFJ or ISFJ vibe from you. Also, your OP in this thread is written for aesthetic accuracy and completeness rather than organization and consciseness. IOW, I don't think a J would present the experience in that style. Sometimes it's tough to get a candid description of a deeply personal experience from a J because they seem to want to groom the presentation to keep it from being too awkward/revealing or too sloppy. In a sense, they "play it safe."

    In your OP, I can see some S influence in the accuracy and depth of detail. (INFPs tend toward hyperbole and fuzziness on the details--they are not great recorders of subjective experiences.)

    ISFPs have a very well-developed aesthetic sense, and I get that kind of vibe from the OP. You obviously have some love for the arts, and I believe you work with literature and editing, which would be a decent match.

    I guess ISFPs tend to be viewed by others as kind of light and fluffy and avoidant. But they can be as solipsist and individualistic and have as strong core values as all the other IxxPs. I have an ISFP stepsister who is an artist. She's easy-going and fun in many ways, but she can also be tough-minded when it's time to get down to business. She has some very strong core values where she simply won't brook opposition. Also, my sister could have written your statement of ideals: "Simplicity, earnestness, and no-bullshit. These are ideals I try to live by."

    Also, ISFPs genuinely enjoy emotional experiences (you said: "I crave that deep, physical experience of feeling emotion, and it's one reason I love music."), but they aren't actually big emoters most of the time (you said: "I spend a lot of time in a pretty sterile state of mind, punctuated with these outpourings of emotion and sensation. When it happens sometimes my first thought is "thank God, I'm not dead inside after all" or something like that. Hmm." ISFPs can come across as kind of cyclothymic--flattened emotional affect a lot of the time, punctuated by shorter periods of strong emotion.

    Also, ISFPs have a "still waters run deep" style about them. They'll keep up a conventional front much of the time and don't go out of their way too much to impact the people around them in a big way; but when they have something important to express, it can be quite stunning because of their aesthetic sensibility. Hence their facility for art. This is also kind of why I'm basing much of my evaluation of you on your OP. It seems to me that many of your posts are short and conventional: good-natured and easy in tone, but not particularly self-revealing. But the OP was something you wanted to express, so it came out in a different tone--deep and colorful, yet detailed and focused, and unafraid to put yourself on the line. Again, that seems kind of ISFP.

    As for the emotional experience described in the OP, I don't think it has much bearing on your personality type. I tend to think all personality types resolve deep personal conflicts in this manner (use of associations) when the time is right. Like I said in another post, I see the mechanism as Freudian and universal rather than Jungian/MBTI. The associative experience is almost like a waking version of dreaming--just going with the flow and seeing where the associations lead. And all personality types dream.

    On the other hand your description of the experience and your subsequent comments about the experience and about emotion in general sound pretty ISFP.

    I don't insist strongly on ISFP; I only know one ISFP really well--my stepsister. (I know a couple others casually, but it's hard to know them well from that distance.) And I can see why others prefer to designate you an N. But I figure I would put the idea out there: ISFP or INFP, with a bias to ISFP.

  10. #30
    We all got it comin' kid Delilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,044

    Default

    After purposefully skipping all the posts but the OP, with what I have seen of you here and the other place you strike me as INxp with a very strongly developed S and J and almost perfectly balanced on the F/T depending on the context.

    Just MHO though.
    *clinging to my face like a starfish of love* ....... PinkPiranha

Similar Threads

  1. Clue: Typology Edition
    By BlueSprout in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-08-2010, 10:12 AM
  2. Help my future wife get a clue of social games more quickly?
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 09-14-2009, 04:18 AM
  3. [MBTItm] ENFP's don't even have a clue what they want (Those Dang Hedonistic Utilitarians)
    By Angry Ayrab in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-02-2008, 07:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO