Esmerelda from The Hunchback of Notre Dame

[Elfboy]

She seems like an NF of some sort, but also ISFP-ish. I think she's an 8, but type 1 or 2 are also possible. my vote goes for ENFP 8w7

 

[Totenkindly]

my vote goes for ENFP 8w7

That doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

[Amargith]

She's ENFJ. Great Se for dancing, but fighter of the right cause, protecting her people. Compare her to Pocahontas, ENFP. Esmeralda fights for her people to be accepted in society, protects them as such, and anyone she perceives as being singled out by society. Just think of the way she challenged the judge and played the crowd during that Carnival Day. Silver tongue, anyone? She's got that typical Ni vision as well as that typical Fe type need for humility (think of the song in the church). Pocahontas on the other hand is the bridge between two people who misunderstand one another. She's the one who seeks out the other side, wonders what makes them tick, very Ne. And she's the one who stands up against her father, against everyone else and does what she believes is right (Fi).

 

[Elfboy]

She's ENFJ. Great Se for dancing, but fighter of the right cause, protecting her people. Compare her to Pocahontas, ENFP. Esmeralda fights for her people to be accepted in society, protects them as such, and anyone she perceives as being singled out by society. Just think of the way she challenged the judge and played the crowd during that Carnival Day. Silver tongue, anyone? She's got that typical Ni vision as well as that typical Fe type need for humility (think of the song in the church). Pocahontas on the other hand is the bridge between two people who misunderstand one another. She's the one who seeks out the other side, wonders what makes them tick, very Ne. And she's the one who stands up against her father, against everyone else and does what she believes is right (Fi).

actually, the scene at the carnival is what makes me think ENFP, being that it was one of the strongest displays of Introverted Feeling I've ever seen. you're right abuot the church scene and the dancing though. both of those seem NFJ. she also seems more P than J to me, but then again, so do many ENFJs. ISFP is a strong possibility given they also have strong Fi and Se and are the most NF-ish type that isn't an NF

 

[Totenkindly]

I'm kind of funny in that I don't typically try to say, "Oh she is using this function here and that function there." Everyone can use all functions; I'll give more credibility to a function if you can see it predominating a situation, but mainly I type people by look and feel, not via function analysis.

IOW, from the outside, what do they look like and how do they carry themselves?

She's ENFJ. Great Se for dancing, but fighter of the right cause, protecting her people. Compare her to Pocahontas, ENFP. Esmeralda fights for her people to be accepted in society, protects them as such, and anyone she perceives as being singled out by society. Just think of the way she challenged the judge and played the crowd during that Carnival Day. Silver tongue, anyone? She's got that typical Ni vision as well as that typical Fe type need for humility (think of the song in the church). Pocahontas on the other hand is the bridge between two people who misunderstand one another. She's the one who seeks out the other side, wonders what makes them tick, very Ne. And she's the one who stands up against her father, against everyone else and does what she believes is right (Fi).

I never got the impression that Pocahontas was an E. She carried herself more like a confident I; she had a strong core and sense of self, even at her young age in that particular movie. There seemed to be depths of her she did not express outwardly or show to others, they were more private. This is typically I pattern; E's start out reversed.

 

[Amargith]

Pocahontas is a mature ENFP, which is why she's different from say, Ariel. However, her need to seek out the strangers, to connect with them, to find out who they are, as well as her childlike nature and her rebellion against stability are very typical of ENFPs, imo.

I agree it's hard to really argue someone's type based on some examples here and there, but the overall feel from Esmeralda is that very stable, consistent ENFJ nature, that leader which will support and stand up for her people, against the flaky, flexible nature of Pocahontas in attempting to see both worldviews, embracing both perspectives and merging them together, in some way.

 

[Totenkindly]

Pocahontas is a mature ENFP, which is why she's different from say, Ariel. However, her need to seek out the strangers, to connect with them, to find out who they are, as well as her childlike nature and her rebellion against stability are very typical of ENFPs, imo.

I don't know, Satine. They look very different to me. I'm not seeing clear evidence of that yet.

Let's test them both. Put them both into a situation that is uncertain, and what happens? By nature, Ariel plunges in in order to find clarity, that's how she "finds" her way through things; meanwhile, Pocahontas flees in order to find stability to decide what to do. That's classic E/I.

A mature ENFP might choose to step back rather than impulsively plunging ahead, but that's not what Pocahontas clearly is doing in that movie... she's unsettled by Smith and the continuing demands of her situation and needs space to think through things. She also is looking for clarity and takes quite awhile to find it.

Smith, meanwhile, is far more the extrovert -- he is likely to be ESTP in that movie, and like Ariel and other EPs, he figures out what to do by inserting himself right into the flow of events and "feeling" what is happening and responding to it.

So I'm not really talking function use per se, I'm talking about actual, observable behavior seen from the outside.

I agree it's hard to really argue someone's type based on some examples here and there, but the overall feel from Esmeralda is that very stable, consistent ENFJ nature, that leader which will support and stand up for her people, against the flaky, flexible nature of Pocahontas in attempting to see both worldviews, embracing both perspectives and merging them together, in some way.

Based on what you say here, I could go with IFP more than ENFP for Pocahontas.... I've seen flighty INFPs behave similarly before, they typically present as Nines on the enneagram (the peacemaker/integrator), and once they get clarity and everything "clicks," they no longer doubt. It just takes awhile to feel that level of conviction.

Getting back to Esmerelda, I can see the EF aspect of her pretty clearly in her behavior. I'm not clear on the rest yet (nor have I watched the movie recently, to have all the details in mind). If she is ENFP, she is more N than F (although she has a strong F ideal guiding her behavior); at the same time, she DOES "hang back" more than a headstrong EFP would. So I can see why you might say ENFJ.

My issue with ENFJ is that normally FJ types are more closure-oriented, and it means they are constantly controlling their presentation in some way, and never quite letting loose. There's always a measure of reserve there; I'm not sure yet with Esmerelda whether she has that measure of reserve. She definitely seems to have a center. (And ironically she doesn't seem to be much different than the roguish Isabella in the recent release of Dragon Age 2, who I think is more clearly ENFP.)

I guess the question is which change is more likely: Is Esmerelda an ENFP with some level of restraint and developed Fi, because she is part of an oppressed group of people and thus automatically empthizes with others; or is she more ENFJ, who merely has been "loosened up" due to the realities of life as a gypsy, where you never know what the next day might bring and life has been about living in the moment? (There's an off-hand possibility of ESFP too, because ESFPs can have the same sense of passion to speak in the name of social justice, but they tend to be more impulsive, and Esmerelda seems a bit more "far-sighted" in her approach.)

Anyway, I think there's enough there that ENFJ might be possible for Esmerelda, there's a formality and structure to her once you get away from the gypsy face she wears in public; it's Pocahontas not being an E that I feel far more strongly about. (Jasmine is even more E -- xSTP -- than Pocahontas, although ultimately in that movie, I think Jasmine is likely to be ISTP vs Aladdin's ExFP/Three.)

 

[AgentF]

Pocahontas is a mature ENFP, which is why she's different from say, Ariel. However, her need to seek out the strangers, to connect with them, to find out who they are, as well as her childlike nature and her rebellion against stability are very typical of ENFPs, imo.

plus, she doesn't have to resort to clam shell-like flouting of her hoo-has.

(i'd add that Ariel's the ENFP "daddy's girl" variant, hehe.)