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  1. #11
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alternatum View Post
    Thanks again, but I just wanted to run this quote by you. It's from a Personality Cafe thread (I unsubscribed from there months ago), and illustrates why I am still unsure about INFJ:

    "I've observed in the last year that unlike dominant or auxiliary Fi users (much like my closet friend who is most likely an xNFP), dominant or auxiliary Fe users are quite unaware of their own personal needs and wants. If they are or become aware of their own personal needs and wants, many 'delude' themselves (including myself!) that they can set aside their own personal needs and wants in favor of "...shared values, feelings and social norms to get along."

    As I said I am self-absorbed not to mention semi-reclusive, and can't relate to the above paragraph. It makes me shudder in fact the idea of giving myself over that much to 'social norms' or 'shared values', because my independence (of body and mind) is so important to me. I did say however that I have comparatively weak use of Fe, but then the same appears to apply to all the extroverted functions, so if not INFJ, then what?
    That's a gross overgeneralization of Fe that seems to float among some sources that take Berens/Nardi's simplified function definitions to an unrealistic extreme.

    Everyone knows their personal needs and wants. That's the product of an ego; not Fi or a "lack" of Fe. Fi will simply pick out the more universal needs and make them the standard of values, including in dealing with others.
    Fe references an external standard, such as the shared values and social norms.

    Now, if you say you put personal needs over shared values, then that would sound like Fi over Fe. But it is not about being "aware" of personal wants.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  2. #12
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    @Alternatum: wait, what about the test results? What information did they offer?

  3. #13
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Okay, here we go:

    extraverted Sensing (Se) *********************** (23.3)
    limited use
    introverted Sensing (Si) ********************************* (33.3)
    good use
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************* (25.3)
    average use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni)
    ************************************ (36.1)
    excellent use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) ***************************** (29.4)
    average use
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************** (20.9)
    limited use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************** (17)
    limited use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************************** **** (54.7)
    excellent use

    Summary Analysis of Profile
    By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INFP

    If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENFP, or ISFP.

  4. #14
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    A clear win for Fi, but am not sure about the choice of questions - I can imagine lots of people 'agreeing' with the Fi-ish questions who aren't particularly Fi. It also strikes me that the questions can be interpreted in different ways with this sort of thing as well, not to mention issues of self-awareness.

    I still think that based on general observations as well as this result I'm either an INFP who uses Ni more than Ne, an ISFP who uses Si more than Se, or an INFJ that uses Fi more than Fe. Spot the correlation there?

    On a side note, I started reading about Fe in "personality type: an owners manual" last night. I don't relate that much to EFJs but share their concern about being accepted/approved of. But this annoys me about myself and it makes me feel like people are imposing themselves and their opinions on me (whether they intend to or not). This is partly why I keep a distance, and an EFJ couldn't stomach doing that. So in reference to Eric B's post, on the face of it although I seem more Fi than Fe overall, it isn't completely straightforward.

    I had trouble submitting the 2nd test so didn't complete the process.

  5. #15
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    Originally posted by Alternatum
    A clear win for Fi, but am not sure about the choice of questions - I can imagine lots of people 'agreeing' with the Fi-ish questions who aren't particularly Fi. It also strikes me that the questions can be interpreted in different ways with this sort of thing as well, not to mention issues of self-awareness.
    That is kinda true I suppose, although not everyone has really strong inner held convictions. As for test interpretation, I suppose that it is rather vauge, although what I've done is I'll wait several weeks, then take the test again and see how the results pair up as opposed to last time.

    I still think that based on general observations as well as this result I'm either an INFP who uses Ni more than Ne, an ISFP who uses Si more than Se, or an INFJ that uses Fi more than Fe. Spot the correlation there?
    Well, at least it's been narrowed done between INFP, ISFP, and INFJ, so we know your IxFx definitely. Although with your extremely high Fi, IxFP seems more likely. It's also possible that you may be stuck in dom-tert loop which explains why your second/extreverted function isn't as strong as it should be, wiat did I mention that already?

    I had trouble submitting the 2nd test so didn't complete the process.
    Was there a technical error or something?

  6. #16
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Actually I managed to submit the other test today, it said INFP, though I thought the questions were too cut and dried.

    The Fi/Fe thing still bothers me as I know with me it's not simply a case of always looking inside versus always looking for agreement or consensus. I know I have done the latter because I can't always decide myself and am scared of saying or doing anything that might be harshly condemned, unless I am confident of it being right or at least has some sound basis. I don't always think in terms of simply right/wrong or good/bad, and think morality is often context-sensitive. I have read that INFPs see things more in shades of grey and for this reason often find it hard to decide - this is all like myself.

    I can't believe FJs always look to others for agreement or consensus either, especially not IxFJs.

    What I might do is pose some questions in the INFP/ISFP/INFJ forums that might help to narrow it down. I'm not sure what significance to place on you seeing significant Ni in my writing earlier, because I lack sufficient self-awareness of my own functional usage and so the Fi thing might be somewhat off. If I were sure of a functional order of Ni Fi then I'd go for INFJ without worrying much about placement of Fe, because I totally don't buy that I'm an INTJ, even in a dom-tert loop.

  7. #17
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    Originally posted by Alternatum
    Actually I managed to submit the other test today, it said INFP, though I thought the questions were too cut and dried.
    Well the test was created by another forum member here, but it is one of the most accurate tests out there.

    The Fi/Fe thing still bothers me as I know with me it's not simply a case of always looking inside versus always looking for agreement or consensus. I know I have done the latter because I can't always decide myself and am scared of saying or doing anything that might be harshly condemned, unless I am confident of it being right or at least has some sound basis. I don't always think in terms of simply right/wrong or good/bad, and think morality is often context-sensitive. I have read that INFPs see things more in shades of grey and for this reason often find it hard to decide - this is all like myself.

    I can't believe FJs always look to others for agreement or consensus either, especially not IxFJs.
    True, the dichotomy of Fe vs. Fi has always been something of a tricky beast, and most of us tend to use both quite equally. Although perhaps if someone with a greater understanding of Fe and Fi could assist that would be nice too.

    What I might do is pose some questions in the INFP/ISFP/INFJ forums that might help to narrow it down. I'm not sure what significance to place on you seeing significant Ni in my writing earlier, because I lack sufficient self-awareness of my own functional usage and so the Fi thing might be somewhat off. If I were sure of a functional order of Ni Fi then I'd go for INFJ without worrying much about placement of Fe, because I totally don't buy that I'm an INTJ, even in a dom-tert loop.
    Don't take what I said about Ni too seriously, I just thought that there was some of it in your first posts but I may have been wrong. At this point, you should either get consensus from other members on the board (through a new thread of course) or read various descriptions of the INFP, INFJ, and ISFP types, and see which one you identify with the most.

    I'm sorry I couldn't be as helpful as I should be, from now on I'll study MBTI ten-fold so that my typing skills can increase and I can type people without doubt. I wish you luck though on dicovering your true type.

  8. #18
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Thanks Savage Idealist for your time and thoughts.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Title
    Impulsive and Indecisive IxxJ without strong use of Extroverted Judging
    We would more usually call that IxxP in MBTI terms.

    All IxxJs are strategists and will use extroverted judging to try to comes to terms with their environment.

  10. #20
    Member Alternatum's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input, InvisibleJim, and normally that would probably be a reasonable assumption, only I can't see strong use of Extroverted Perceiving in myself either. For example, I don't see myself as being a quick improviser, though playing things by ear often doesn't require improvisation, so much as just doing what feels or seems right at the time. The paradox is that I prefer things to be planned and orderly, whilst in the event hate being placed in a straight-jacket, and often opt to see how things play out for as long as possible if undecided what to do.

    I've more or less accepted now that whatever type I happened to be placed in would be somewhat incompatible on some level.

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