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ENFP or ENTP?

Izix

New member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
12
MBTI Type
ENxP
Enneagram
7w6
So I have my type mostly settled -- 3/4 ain't bad right? :p (It feels so weird to type "ain't", possibly because I'm not an American and I can remember ever physically saying the word)

I'm basically set on E, N and P. And Ne. The only profiles that tend to make sense are ENTP and ENFP (and I am excluding Kiersey because nothing fits there). Obviously you can shout any type you want at me, should be convinces I'm actually an ISxJ or something like that. But I digress.

When I take online tests that give out percentages for the dichotomies, they're always skewed majorly towards N and P. I/E and T/F tend to approach even.

I have consulted this page, and while I think I'm definitely Informing/Initiating (which obviously doesn't help me) and that I'm "Abstract", I can't determine with any confidence whether I'm Affiliative or Pragmatic, mostly because neither is good.

So, I could read countless inventories and try to split hairs reading type profiles, but that kind of thing is inevitably unsatisfying. Does anyone have any ideas about how I can tease this apart?
 

syndatha

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Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
255
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w2
* How do you handle conflicts?
* What's your job/hobbies?
Otherwise, I'll just follow this thread keenly - my husband is also either ENFP or ENTP.
He works with computers, and right now he's constructing a miniature pyramid from copper wire in order to see if it can produce electricity (It's midnight where we live.) He's also into constructing/inventing alternative perpetuum mobiles. I think he's an ENTP by heart, but he grew up in a F family, and that may explain why he always has tested F.
 

Savage Idealist

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2,841
MBTI Type
ENFP
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6w7
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sp/so
Do you make decisions based on your own set of personal values, or on certain principles of logic?

Do you go more by feelings or rationality?

Ti or Fi (if you're unfamiliar with the cognitive functions, then check out this site: http://www.bestfittype.com/cognitiveprocesses.html, functions are down the page).
 

guesswho

Active member
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
1,977
MBTI Type
ENTP
heh...I started a thread with the same title when I joined the forum.
The truth is, the definitions of ENFP and ENTP are kind of retarded...they're way too similar.

Ok, so if you are ENTP you have to be:

Logical, the information which you receive must make sense in order to receive it. Do you get pissed if something makes no logical sense? Do you try making sense of it? Explaining things in a less blurry way?
Do you have a thing for grammar?
Are you empathic or not empathic? ENTPs are usually not very empathic and somewhat self absorbed.

For instance if someone says:
I hate fried potatoes. Do you want to know what makes him hate fried potatoes, since everybody likes fried potatoes, or has a neutral attitude towards them
Assume the person replies: I just hate fried potatoes.
Are you satisfied to this answer? Or are you compelled to say something like : That's not a reason to hate fried potatoes. You can't say I hate fried potatoes because I hate fried potatoes. :laugh:
Do you find it weird and slightly annoying when people love hate things to which you have an absolutely neutral attitude towards?

Let's assume a crazy dude kills someone.
Do you feel bad that things like this happen, that someone had the bad luck of being killed by some crazy fuck randomly. Do you engage in ethical discussions with others after this?

Or do you want to know what made that guy go on a killing spree, not caring about the victim, nor the crazy fuck. You just wanna know what makes him a crazy fuck.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
4,455
MBTI Type
3h50
Situation: you're in a group situation, and someone's being a dick. Do you go up to their face and tell them off, or do you talk to everyone in the group, and undermine that person's credibility?
 

skylights

i love
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Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
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6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
For instance if someone says:
I hate fried potatoes. Do you want to know what makes him hate fried potatoes, since everybody likes fried potatoes, or has a neutral attitude towards them
Assume the person replies: I just hate fried potatoes.
Are you satisfied to this answer? Or are you compelled to say something like : That's not a reason to hate fried potatoes. You can't say I hate fried potatoes because I hate fried potatoes. :laugh:
Do you find it weird and slightly annoying when people love hate things to which you have an absolutely neutral attitude towards?

Let's assume a crazy dude kills someone.
Do you feel bad that things like this happen, that someone had the bad luck of being killed by some crazy fuck randomly. Do you engage in ethical discussions with others after this?

Or do you want to know what made that guy go on a killing spree, not caring about the victim, nor the crazy fuck. You just wanna know what makes him a crazy fuck.

:laugh:

our types are really much too much alike. i'm curious about these things too. no answer to the potato question would also annoy me, and i love knowing why crazy people are crazy.

you're totally right about the logic though. that's the thing that really separates us.

onemoretime said:
Situation: you're in a group situation, and someone's being a dick. Do you go up to their face and tell them off, or do you talk to everyone in the group, and undermine that person's credibility?

GOOD ONE
 

Izix

New member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
12
MBTI Type
ENxP
Enneagram
7w6
Sorry about the long post! I thought this might be better than multiple posts.

* How do you handle conflicts?

I don't especially like them. I prefer everyone to be happy, with me and with each other. I feel very awkward when other people are having conflict and I do my best not to get involved. I'm not very good at dealing with my own conflicts, as soon as someone is mad at *me* I get shaky and speechless (I can't physically talk when I'm very upset).

However, I am reasonably comfortable conflicting with strangers over the internet. :D

* What's your job/hobbies?

I am studying at a technical school with the aim of becoming a library technician. I work part-time teaching music, cataloguing books and doing accounts for an IT company.

My hobbies are many --

Arts: painting, listening/playing/composing music, writing
Watching TV: crime shows, sci-fi, nature/history documentaries
Reading: true crime, sci-fi/fantasy, nature/history/medical non-fiction.
Gaming: nearly anything I can get my hands on or convince other people to play with me -- board games, card games, puzzle games, D&D, video games (usually platform games, arcade-style fighters, musical games, RPG/adventure, economic simulators). My most heavily-played game is WoW.

Do you make decisions based on your own set of personal values, or on certain principles of logic?

Do you go more by feelings or rationality?

Ultimately both. I'd generally go with the logical principles first, but when it comes to interaction with other people they can be very irrational so I'd be hitting my head against a wall if I insisted on keeping with the logic.

Ti or Fi (if you're unfamiliar with the cognitive functions, then check out this site: http://www.bestfittype.com/cognitiveprocesses.html, functions are down the page).

I dunno. I'm a chaotic-neutral sort of person, so when you start talking about "principals" I start not identifying so much. I relate to Te much better than either of them. Plus, "red is a power colour" and "this outfit suits me and feel right" ... wtf?

heh...I started a thread with the same title when I joined the forum.
The truth is, the definitions of ENFP and ENTP are kind of retarded...they're way too similar.

Ok, so if you are ENTP you have to be:

Logical, the information which you receive must make sense in order to receive it. Do you get pissed if something makes no logical sense? Do you try making sense of it? Explaining things in a less blurry way?
Do you have a thing for grammar?

I don't have any particular requirement for information to make sense before it gets to me, because I can make sense of things well enough on my own.

In the event that it is truly nonsensical, my reaction depends on the situation. If it is something that is negatively my life (for example if my bf is mad at me for some irrational reason), my ire increases with the absurdity. However, in regular everyday situations I am generally amused. If a friend is delivering the nonsensical or poorly-thought-out information, then likely I'll gently tease them (perhaps for a long time afterwards if it was very memorable lol). I'm also very likely to say incredibly absurd things to make people laugh.

Are you empathic or not empathic? ENTPs are usually not very empathic and somewhat self absorbed.

For instance if someone says:
I hate fried potatoes. Do you want to know what makes him hate fried potatoes, since everybody likes fried potatoes, or has a neutral attitude towards them
Assume the person replies: I just hate fried potatoes.
Are you satisfied to this answer? Or are you compelled to say something like : That's not a reason to hate fried potatoes. You can't say I hate fried potatoes because I hate fried potatoes. :laugh:
Do you find it weird and slightly annoying when people love hate things to which you have an absolutely neutral attitude towards?

I am curious about where their attitude stems from, but I figure there's no accounting for taste. I don't see why I should be bothered about someone's attitude towards fried potatoes, however?

Let's assume a crazy dude kills someone.
Do you feel bad that things like this happen, that someone had the bad luck of being killed by some crazy fuck randomly. Do you engage in ethical discussions with others after this?

Or do you want to know what made that guy go on a killing spree, not caring about the victim, nor the crazy fuck. You just wanna know what makes him a crazy fuck.

I want to know what makes him a crazy fuck! :D But ethical discussions also. I can't help but feel you can't do one without the other? You'd miss too much and not get enough perspective if you did.

Situation: you're in a group situation, and someone's being a dick. Do you go up to their face and tell them off, or do you talk to everyone in the group, and undermine that person's credibility?

Depends on the manner of dickness. I stand up for people who are being unfairly harassed. Not so good at standing up for myself, however. Undermining a persons' credibility to the group is generally reserved for people already with low credibility, in which case it's more of a mutual bitch session.
 

onemoretime

Dreaming the life
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
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3h50
Depends on the manner of dickness. I stand up for people who are being unfairly harassed. Not so good at standing up for myself, however. Undermining a persons' credibility to the group is generally reserved for people already with low credibility, in which case it's more of a mutual bitch session.

ENFP. You're welcome.
 

Thalassa

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sx
It's because you avoid conflict IRL but have no problem telling people off on the Internet.
 

Thalassa

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But you really shouldn't type yourself by stereotypes, both ENFPs and ENTPs can exhibit passive-aggressive behavior of all kinds, or do things to annoy people. Some ENTPs are really nice and have wonderful Fe, while others are complete jackasses. Some ENFPs are passive and conflict-avoidant, others will bulldoze your ass with Te if you violate an Fi ethic (me).

Study the functions. All else is futile and will just confuse you more. Never type yourself by the four dichotomies, or by being socially introverted or socially extroverted. Keirsey is also crap akin to astrological stereotypes, so please - for your own sanity - stick with Jungian cognitive theory. When you actually grasp it, it does make the most sense.

You might want to eliminate what you DO NOT have...like I know I DO NOT have much Ti.

Do you measure logic externally, do you think it's kind of batshit crazy to say logic is inside your head, and believe that reality can be best measured by checking with the outer world and by scientific observation?

Do you feel things so strongly that you're overwhelmed sometimes, and then form your moral or ethical principles from that? Or do you tend to look to others for what is ethically correct?

ENFPs are kind of into mirroring and can be blend-y with people, which can look a bit like Fe, but it's not, because those ethics undeniably come from inside you, you will have an almost VISCERAL sense of right and wrong.

Hope this helps.
 

onemoretime

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Thanks for the input. Could you please explain?

All about the tertiary - i.e. how you handle situations that your primary and secondary can't take care of. That's important, because you're unaware of your primary, and only have a partial cognizance of the secondary. Your answer suggested that you take a Te approach in these situations - standing up to the person and trying to correct him or her. The other approach would be the Fe approach, which uses group dynamics to neutralize the problem.

Hope that helps.
 

Lady_X

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i agree...you sound enfp to me.
 

funkadelik

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lmao
Are you more interested in people systems or impersonal systems?

One of the major differences between me and an ENFP friend of mine (though we are quite similar) is that she's really perceptive about people and what makes them tick and puts a lot of energy into being a part of that and figuring those things out. Me, I can see the system, acknowledge it, but ultimately I find it pretty boring. I'm more interested in the framework of how a company works not the dynamic of the interactions of the people working within it. That sort of thing.

Also, yeah, read up on functions and stuff. I've heard ENFPs say (and Marmie Dearest just reiterated it) they don't understand how logic can be determined internally (Ti) and I don't really understand the merit of values being determined internally (Fi). ENFPs utilize Fi and Te (no Ti) and ENTPs utilize Ti and Fe (no Fi).

And if it helps, I find that ENFPs are more sensitive than ENTPs. If someone trods on their values, they can be surprisingly cold and analytical (usually with holes in their logic where they try to insert their ideals as truths). It's like ENFPs are either "warm and cuddly" or "cold as ice", while I'm usually neither here nor there - simultaneously "warm and charming" and "cold, detached and impersonal."

ENFPs are good at analysing their feelings, so I can see how that could appear "Thinkery" but in the end it's just an attempt to logically justify something inherently subjective. I'm good at appearing to be really into someone and connecting with them (and I can understand how that would appear "Feely") but in the end it's mostly just a ruse/appearance. I very rarely feel deeply connected with people and that doesn't bother me one bit. :laugh:

Also, my ENFP friend tends to expend a great deal of effort finding the right word for how she feels, while I spend a great deal of effort finding the right words for my ideas. Both Fi and Ti are built on the concept of a holistic "framework" so trying to find the right words is congruent with trying to find just the right place for something in that framework.

Anyway, I'm not going to pretend to know you enough to pass judgment on which preferences you have, but hopefully something in what I wrote will help you determine that for yourself. :)
 

Izix

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Mar 1, 2011
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Keirsey is also crap akin to astrological stereotypes, so please - for your own sanity - stick with Jungian cognitive theory. When you actually grasp it, it does make the most sense.

Duly noted! :D

Do you measure logic externally, do you think it's kind of batshit crazy to say logic is inside your head, and believe that reality can be best measured by checking with the outer world and by scientific observation?

I have to say that I believe that neither empiricism nor logic alone is enough to arrive at truth, though I think they're both valid they're certainly not the only valid means either. :)

Though I have no particularly strong logical or empirical reason for saying so, haha :laugh: ... I just think that neither gives the whole picture, and in some cases just allow you to be totally wrong with confidence! People have thought some very rational things using empirical or proto-empirical though, and turned out to be very, very wrong. People have also used their internal logic to say incredibly nonsensical things (ontological argument, anyone? not that I'm holding up St. Anselm as a brilliant philosopher or anything).

I figure it's better to take both into account and get the gestalt. At least that feels more satisfying. :D

Do you feel things so strongly that you're overwhelmed sometimes, and then form your moral or ethical principles from that? Or do you tend to look to others for what is ethically correct?

I tend to start out thinking that I would feel a certain way about something, which I guess is internal, but if something comes up and I discover I feel differently, of course I have to change my mind.

I tend not to think in terms of "ethical correctness" though, because situations are so complex and diverse it's hard to come up with something that has totally universal application like "niceness" (but what does that even mean?), the application of which is going to be situational anyway.

Maybe "ethical usefulness"?
 

skylights

i love
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7,756
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INFP
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so/sx
It's like ENFPs are either "warm and cuddly" or "cold as ice", while I'm usually neither here nor there - simultaneously "warm and charming" and "cold, detached and impersonal."

i have come to the same conclusion :)

Fi/Te, being subjective-subjective/objective-objective, tends to operate warm-or-cold (though even our "cold" is rather... well... spiky), while Fe/Ti, being objective-subjective/subjective-objective, tends to operate warm-and-cold.

izix, i lean towards ENFP for you as well.
 

Lady_X

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very good post by the entp chick(?) there...totally agree.
 

Thalassa

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Duly noted! :D



I have to say that I believe that neither empiricism nor logic alone is enough to arrive at truth, though I think they're both valid they're certainly not the only valid means either. :)

Though I have no particularly strong logical or empirical reason for saying so, haha :laugh: ... I just think that neither gives the whole picture, and in some cases just allow you to be totally wrong with confidence! People have thought some very rational things using empirical or proto-empirical though, and turned out to be very, very wrong. People have also used their internal logic to say incredibly nonsensical things (ontological argument, anyone? not that I'm holding up St. Anselm as a brilliant philosopher or anything).

I figure it's better to take both into account and get the gestalt. At least that feels more satisfying. :D

Well, of course, that's the wise mature thing to do. I think that as well. Te fails miserably sometimes with it's exterior over-arching generalizations, and Ti can work itself into batshit circular logic if the original premise is flawed. Both are needed.

But Te just makes so much sense to me, internally, as an individual. Te looks like survival, common sense, and staying in touch with reality to me. Te looks like force and practicality. Te is useful. Of course, I think it's only natural for someone with Fi dom-aux to believe that the measurement of logic MUST come from somewhere out there, because it sure as heck ain't in me. :laugh:



I tend to start out thinking that I would feel a certain way about something, which I guess is internal, but if something comes up and I discover I feel differently, of course I have to change my mind.

I tend not to think in terms of "ethical correctness" though, because situations are so complex and diverse it's hard to come up with something that has totally universal application like "niceness" (but what does that even mean?), the application of which is going to be situational anyway.

Maybe "ethical usefulness"?

You sound ENFP to me. Ethical usefulness makes sense to me, too. Ethical correctness seems Fe to me, which would lean toward ENTP.
 
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