• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Do tests favor N over S?

To-A-T

New member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
10
MBTI Type
ESFx
Enneagram
7w6
I have taken 3 tests today and ended up with ENFP every time, with the N being astounding. However, I know I am not N. The N description does not fit me. While I may think in abstracts and favor art/poetry/writing/etc., I am not one to "catch underlying meanings or ironies." I am way too scatter-brained for that and have always been fascinated with facts in history and wanting to be informed on topics, etc. I do like to look at the big picture however my mind does tends to focus more on visual stimuli and other obvious and observant aspects. I think I am ESFx (being on the J/P borderline). But why do I keep getting N?

(A friend who is obsessed with these personality tests says I am an ESFJ to a T. I see a little more P in there than he does, but that doesn't really matter.)
 

burymecloser

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
516
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
6w5
I think the way a lot of tests are designed, Sensors may type as Intuitives, but seldom the reverse. I'd cautiously guess from what you've written here that you might be a Ne-tert, which fits with ESFJ.

Poorly written tests are certainly part of the reason so many Sensors identify as N.
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
You keep getting N because, if you answered in an "S" way on the tests, they'd have you believe that you cannot comprehend the abstract, that you are unimaginative, that you do not think about the future...basically a lot of things that all people with normal cognition do on a regular basis. They're basically asking if you're retarded. If yes, then S. If no, then N.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
^ See, I don't know.

My thought is that the 'S' questions seem to lean more towards Si than Se, so I think it's fairly common for SP's to test as N's.

The other thing is that the tests assume very black and white distinctions between type: either/or. Those who aren't extreme in their preferences are going to have a harder time answering the questions.

I always like to pose my ISTJ mother as an example, as she's never tested anything other than ISTJ, and she's profoundly un-abstract. I'm not intending this as a knock against her, it's just a fact. She's simply not that way, at all. Like, she really doesn't get most of that, nor does she even value abstract thought / abstract people, really. I think she find them kind of silly, in a way. So, I'm of course not saying that S's aren't capable of abstraction - because that's obviously untrue. BUT, I do think extreme S's (for lack of a better word) can demonstrate this - most especially, the lack of valuing of those sorts of conversations/focus; and, in the end, I think the Type Descriptions do tend to describe more the extreme, archetypal version of each of the types.
 

guesswho

Active member
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
1,977
MBTI Type
ENTP
The MBTI also has cooler descriptions and labels for Ns.

For instance INTJ is "the mastermind" and ISTJ is "the duty fulfiller"
ENTP is the inventor, and ESTP the promoter.
ENTJ is the field marhall and ESTJ is the "administrator"
ISTP is the mechanic, while INTP is the architect.

This bothers me because it isn't accurate.

How can you expect accurate results if the interpretation of the results isn't accurate, when the N side is WAY FAVORED.
 

KDude

New member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
8,243
^ Actually, I wanted to be an ISFP because they are the "artist" (what is INFP, the dreamer?). The S's win on that one. :cool:
 

Patches

Klingon Warrior Princess
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
5,505
The MBTI also has cooler descriptions and labels for Ns.

For instance INTJ is "the mastermind" and ISTJ is "the duty fulfiller"

Pfft. Fuck labels like "the Mastermind". Thats pretentious as fuck and I would never want to be labelled as such. Nothing wrong with Duty Fullfiller.
 

wolfy

awsm
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
12,251
^ Actually, I wanted to be an ISFP because they are the "artist" (what is INFP, the dreamer?). The S's win on that one. :cool:

I liked composer producer for isfp. Artist tops dreamer though.
 
G

garbage

Guest
I had a bout where I tested S because I dared mark anything abut practicality

I think you guys do tend to get shafted on these tests, though
 

Randomnity

insert random title here
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
9,485
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
^ See, I don't know.

My thought is that the 'S' questions seem to lean more towards Si than Se, so I think it's fairly common for SP's to test as N's.
This is a good point, too.

But the thing that glares most (to me) is that the S questions are clearly aimed at less-educated, unintellectual (maybe even unintelligent) people, which may well be a trend but certainly isn't a defining characteristic.
 

Arclight

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
3,177
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
I have been looking into getting a professional assessment done.
Not an online professional assessment even but rather here in person.
The Psyche Department at the local U,offers a Jungian MBTI based assessment.
I am told the assessment takes over 3 hours and is normally broken down into two sessions .
One session is interview and question based, and the other involves looking at lot of pictures and things like that, whatever that means.

It is also going to cost me almost $300..

If that's the case..Then these online tests are more flawed than just having an N/S bias.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The SFP = N mistake is pretty well-documented in type studies for years. SFP can look like N and vice versa in terms of style and SFPs are actually typically creative due to the Se+Fi approach to the world.

One essential difference is how N sees big picture w/o needing to see details, whereas SFP tends to formulate the big picture by looking at all the details. They really get far more into the specific details and sensations of the art experience, N stays focused on the interconnections.

arclight said:
If that's the case..Then these online tests are more flawed than just having an N/S bias.

I'm not sure why we would be surprised that a trained professional using testing tools would be more effective than some long, impersonal, user-driven online test that cannot evaluate the nuances and context and history of one's personality. If the professional is worth anything, they can help tease out more natural personality from a host of later, layered influences that represent coping mechanisms rather than true inclinations.
 

Arclight

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
3,177
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
The SFP = N mistake is pretty well-documented in type studies for years. SFP can look like N and vice versa in terms of style and SFPs are actually typically creative due to the Se+Fi approach to the world.

One essential difference is how N sees big picture w/o needing to see details, whereas SFP tends to formulate the big picture by looking at all the details. They really get far more into the specific details and sensations of the art experience, N stays focused on the interconnections.



I'm not sure why we would be surprised that a trained professional using testing tools would be more effective than some long, impersonal, user-driven online test that cannot evaluate the nuances and context and history of one's personality. If the professional is worth anything, they can help tease out more natural personality from a host of later, layered influences that represent coping mechanisms rather than true inclinations.

Thank you for editing.. I changed my response as well.. I am not really surprised.. But a lot of people seem to be.. That's why we get threads like this.
I do feel my post is very pertinent to the subject.. Because the question seems to be why these tests give inaccurate results.

The bias is also prolly in the test taker themselves as well.. To me, S questions actually sound rather odd and difficult to comprehend sometimes .

I mean.. "compare present data to a storehouse of information..? You mean memory?? Don't we all have that ? and don't we all use it regularly in our everyday life and use it to determine all sorts of decisions??

Get in "sync" with people and activities around you?? You mean try not to bump into them??

Maybe S is not that simple at all, then??..
 

KDude

New member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
8,243
The SFP = N mistake is pretty well-documented in type studies for years. SFP can look like N and vice versa in terms of style and SFPs are actually typically creative due to the Se+Fi approach to the world.

It is a confusing one for me too. From what I know at this point, I do not see my "N inclinations" as Ni, let alone tertiary Ni. Nor do I have the same readiness for activity as Se types. I don't think I even have that many experiences per se. It seems like I have fewer experiences, and then dissect them and bridge them with other ideas.. thereby making mountains out of molehills. Or maybe, I just like to glean as much as I can, even from the small things in life. I still leave ISFP and ENFP as possible alternatives though.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The bias is also prolly in the test taker themselves as well.. To me, S questions actually sound rather odd and difficult to comprehend sometimes .

i agree. not only is it hard to give objective answers after identity has solidifed, but the questions might have different responses based on how the test-taker "reads" them.

I mean.. "compare present data to a storehouse of information..? You mean memory?? Don't we all have that ? and don't we all use it regularly in our everyday life and use it to determine all sorts of decisions??


Lol. Well, who even talks like that? It's hilarious. What they mean, of course, is when you hear something, how do you process it and how do you screen it? It's supposed to be an Si question, of course. But everyone uses their memory. It's just that Ne is focused on the insinuations of incoming data, of where it could springboard to; Si perspective says, "How does this match with what I know from past experience, the things I am familiar with?" Ne is less concerned with "validating" the data aligns by what is already know, more concerned about what it might suggest or what can be attempted with it.

Get in "sync" with people and activities around you?? You mean try not to bump into them??
No, it means you tie yourself to a tetherball cord and whip yourself around the pole. :D

Maybe S is not that simple at all, then??..

I don't think anything is simple. S is more tangible, N more effusive, but both are complex.

It is a confusing one for me too. From what I know at this point, I do not see my "N inclinations" as Ni, let alone tertiary Ni. Nor do I have the same readiness for activity as Se types. I don't think I even have that many experiences per se. It seems like I have fewer experiences, and then dissect them and bridge them with other ideas.. thereby making mountains out of molehills. Or maybe, I just like to glean as much as I can, even from the small things in life. I still leave ISFP and ENFP as possible alternatives though.

It can be difficult to separate things out, since we are all a bunch of various perspectives playing off each other. it's more about priority... but we're not necessarily even consistent there either. And it only gets worse, the more "integrated" one becomes.

I think it's easier to determine type when someone is more "raw" and hasn't yet begun much integration (aside from downright "false" type where someone's developed a mask). The extremes make type easier to discern.
 

KDude

New member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
8,243
I think it's easier to determine type when someone is more "raw" and hasn't yet begun much integration

I'm not sure where to start there either. My first test was in my teens. My results were INFP. The red flag here is that I was seeing a psychologist... Most people who are in counseling aren't their usual selves. Except, I was seeing psychologists before that too. One time a psychologist even outsourced me to his psychic friend. Good times. If anything, it seems like my raw state was abnormal by some standards...enough to make me go to counseling a lot or even have the counselors consult the gods.

Meh. I'm actually trying to make a point. I didn't think I was weird at the time (or maybe wasn't anyways). Long story. My raw state suffered disconnect though. Not that SPs couldn't either. I think the difference is they probably get to sleep with their psychologists. :rolli:

Damnit.. I don't know how to be serious here. Avoiding emo talk. There's a part that's grown from that kid that wants to integrate and is more aware of my affect around the environment, around others, etc.. and maybe it's best expressed as an ISFP-ish side. I don't think it's conscious or anything, but it's a part that I try to cultivate, I guess.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
Connection! Whether it's relevant or not here we go. Don't we have the most questions about our perception on the physical environment, that in itself is Sensual trying to understand what is and isn't sensual is incredibly difficult. What physicality is authentic and what is conjured within ourselves. All of this seems sensual, but attributed towards Intuition as it's viewed as 'abstract'.
 

strychnine

All Natural! All Good!
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
895
I test as INxx almost all the time, including on the official MBTI I took with my university's career centre. I tested INTJ there! It was before I really learned MBTI, too, so it's supposed to be "unbiased". I seem to lack Se altogether, so maybe just having Fi as dominant can make one seem pretty "dreamy" and "head in the clouds", leading to an N score.

Perhaps the Ss that have inferior N functions (ISxJ has inferior Ne, ESxP has inferior Ni) are more likely to "reject" the abstract actively, due to inferior rejection, which would lead them to test more S. Whereas ESxJ (tert Ne) and ISxP (tert Ni) may test more N, because even if their N function isn't strong, at least they aren't rejecting it. I'm a fan of the abstract myself, but I notice my ISxJ friends saying they "hate" philosophy. The sentiment is that strong. I suspect this is inferior Ne talking.

Tests must have neutral wording between the two choices. At least the real MBTI seems to have that unlike most of these online tests. Asking someone whether they PREFER to entertain themselves with their surroundings (S) or imagination (N) is unbiased. (Then again, I would answer "imagination", so it may not be reliable. And people have differing ideas of what is imagination vs. just realistic visualization.) Preference is key - it's not saying the "surroundings" folks are unimaginative, just that they prefer to notice what is around them. Maybe tests need to move away from ability-based question. After all, that is what the functions are about, functional preference.

I got a blatant ENFP to test as ESFP on this test: http://www.worldpersonality.com/

Anyone think it's yet another biased test, or maybe better than most other internet ones?
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
Don't we have the most questions about our perception on the physical environment, that in itself is Sensual trying to understand what is and isn't sensual is incredibly difficult.

*stares in consternation*
 
Top