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  1. #11
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    ^ See, I don't know.

    My thought is that the 'S' questions seem to lean more towards Si than Se, so I think it's fairly common for SP's to test as N's.
    This is a good point, too.

    But the thing that glares most (to me) is that the S questions are clearly aimed at less-educated, unintellectual (maybe even unintelligent) people, which may well be a trend but certainly isn't a defining characteristic.
    -end of thread-

  2. #12
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    I have been looking into getting a professional assessment done.
    Not an online professional assessment even but rather here in person.
    The Psyche Department at the local U,offers a Jungian MBTI based assessment.
    I am told the assessment takes over 3 hours and is normally broken down into two sessions .
    One session is interview and question based, and the other involves looking at lot of pictures and things like that, whatever that means.

    It is also going to cost me almost $300..

    If that's the case..Then these online tests are more flawed than just having an N/S bias.

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    The SFP = N mistake is pretty well-documented in type studies for years. SFP can look like N and vice versa in terms of style and SFPs are actually typically creative due to the Se+Fi approach to the world.

    One essential difference is how N sees big picture w/o needing to see details, whereas SFP tends to formulate the big picture by looking at all the details. They really get far more into the specific details and sensations of the art experience, N stays focused on the interconnections.

    Quote Originally Posted by arclight
    If that's the case..Then these online tests are more flawed than just having an N/S bias.
    I'm not sure why we would be surprised that a trained professional using testing tools would be more effective than some long, impersonal, user-driven online test that cannot evaluate the nuances and context and history of one's personality. If the professional is worth anything, they can help tease out more natural personality from a host of later, layered influences that represent coping mechanisms rather than true inclinations.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The SFP = N mistake is pretty well-documented in type studies for years. SFP can look like N and vice versa in terms of style and SFPs are actually typically creative due to the Se+Fi approach to the world.

    One essential difference is how N sees big picture w/o needing to see details, whereas SFP tends to formulate the big picture by looking at all the details. They really get far more into the specific details and sensations of the art experience, N stays focused on the interconnections.



    I'm not sure why we would be surprised that a trained professional using testing tools would be more effective than some long, impersonal, user-driven online test that cannot evaluate the nuances and context and history of one's personality. If the professional is worth anything, they can help tease out more natural personality from a host of later, layered influences that represent coping mechanisms rather than true inclinations.
    Thank you for editing.. I changed my response as well.. I am not really surprised.. But a lot of people seem to be.. That's why we get threads like this.
    I do feel my post is very pertinent to the subject.. Because the question seems to be why these tests give inaccurate results.

    The bias is also prolly in the test taker themselves as well.. To me, S questions actually sound rather odd and difficult to comprehend sometimes .

    I mean.. "compare present data to a storehouse of information..? You mean memory?? Don't we all have that ? and don't we all use it regularly in our everyday life and use it to determine all sorts of decisions??

    Get in "sync" with people and activities around you?? You mean try not to bump into them??

    Maybe S is not that simple at all, then??..

  5. #15
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The SFP = N mistake is pretty well-documented in type studies for years. SFP can look like N and vice versa in terms of style and SFPs are actually typically creative due to the Se+Fi approach to the world.
    It is a confusing one for me too. From what I know at this point, I do not see my "N inclinations" as Ni, let alone tertiary Ni. Nor do I have the same readiness for activity as Se types. I don't think I even have that many experiences per se. It seems like I have fewer experiences, and then dissect them and bridge them with other ideas.. thereby making mountains out of molehills. Or maybe, I just like to glean as much as I can, even from the small things in life. I still leave ISFP and ENFP as possible alternatives though.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    The bias is also prolly in the test taker themselves as well.. To me, S questions actually sound rather odd and difficult to comprehend sometimes .
    i agree. not only is it hard to give objective answers after identity has solidifed, but the questions might have different responses based on how the test-taker "reads" them.

    I mean.. "compare present data to a storehouse of information..? You mean memory?? Don't we all have that ? and don't we all use it regularly in our everyday life and use it to determine all sorts of decisions??

    Lol. Well, who even talks like that? It's hilarious. What they mean, of course, is when you hear something, how do you process it and how do you screen it? It's supposed to be an Si question, of course. But everyone uses their memory. It's just that Ne is focused on the insinuations of incoming data, of where it could springboard to; Si perspective says, "How does this match with what I know from past experience, the things I am familiar with?" Ne is less concerned with "validating" the data aligns by what is already know, more concerned about what it might suggest or what can be attempted with it.

    Get in "sync" with people and activities around you?? You mean try not to bump into them??
    No, it means you tie yourself to a tetherball cord and whip yourself around the pole.

    Maybe S is not that simple at all, then??..
    I don't think anything is simple. S is more tangible, N more effusive, but both are complex.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It is a confusing one for me too. From what I know at this point, I do not see my "N inclinations" as Ni, let alone tertiary Ni. Nor do I have the same readiness for activity as Se types. I don't think I even have that many experiences per se. It seems like I have fewer experiences, and then dissect them and bridge them with other ideas.. thereby making mountains out of molehills. Or maybe, I just like to glean as much as I can, even from the small things in life. I still leave ISFP and ENFP as possible alternatives though.
    It can be difficult to separate things out, since we are all a bunch of various perspectives playing off each other. it's more about priority... but we're not necessarily even consistent there either. And it only gets worse, the more "integrated" one becomes.

    I think it's easier to determine type when someone is more "raw" and hasn't yet begun much integration (aside from downright "false" type where someone's developed a mask). The extremes make type easier to discern.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  7. #17
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think it's easier to determine type when someone is more "raw" and hasn't yet begun much integration
    I'm not sure where to start there either. My first test was in my teens. My results were INFP. The red flag here is that I was seeing a psychologist... Most people who are in counseling aren't their usual selves. Except, I was seeing psychologists before that too. One time a psychologist even outsourced me to his psychic friend. Good times. If anything, it seems like my raw state was abnormal by some standards...enough to make me go to counseling a lot or even have the counselors consult the gods.

    Meh. I'm actually trying to make a point. I didn't think I was weird at the time (or maybe wasn't anyways). Long story. My raw state suffered disconnect though. Not that SPs couldn't either. I think the difference is they probably get to sleep with their psychologists. :rolli:

    Damnit.. I don't know how to be serious here. Avoiding emo talk. There's a part that's grown from that kid that wants to integrate and is more aware of my affect around the environment, around others, etc.. and maybe it's best expressed as an ISFP-ish side. I don't think it's conscious or anything, but it's a part that I try to cultivate, I guess.

  8. #18
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    Connection! Whether it's relevant or not here we go. Don't we have the most questions about our perception on the physical environment, that in itself is Sensual trying to understand what is and isn't sensual is incredibly difficult. What physicality is authentic and what is conjured within ourselves. All of this seems sensual, but attributed towards Intuition as it's viewed as 'abstract'.

  9. #19
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    I test as INxx almost all the time, including on the official MBTI I took with my university's career centre. I tested INTJ there! It was before I really learned MBTI, too, so it's supposed to be "unbiased". I seem to lack Se altogether, so maybe just having Fi as dominant can make one seem pretty "dreamy" and "head in the clouds", leading to an N score.

    Perhaps the Ss that have inferior N functions (ISxJ has inferior Ne, ESxP has inferior Ni) are more likely to "reject" the abstract actively, due to inferior rejection, which would lead them to test more S. Whereas ESxJ (tert Ne) and ISxP (tert Ni) may test more N, because even if their N function isn't strong, at least they aren't rejecting it. I'm a fan of the abstract myself, but I notice my ISxJ friends saying they "hate" philosophy. The sentiment is that strong. I suspect this is inferior Ne talking.

    Tests must have neutral wording between the two choices. At least the real MBTI seems to have that unlike most of these online tests. Asking someone whether they PREFER to entertain themselves with their surroundings (S) or imagination (N) is unbiased. (Then again, I would answer "imagination", so it may not be reliable. And people have differing ideas of what is imagination vs. just realistic visualization.) Preference is key - it's not saying the "surroundings" folks are unimaginative, just that they prefer to notice what is around them. Maybe tests need to move away from ability-based question. After all, that is what the functions are about, functional preference.

    I got a blatant ENFP to test as ESFP on this test: http://www.worldpersonality.com/

    Anyone think it's yet another biased test, or maybe better than most other internet ones?
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Don't we have the most questions about our perception on the physical environment, that in itself is Sensual trying to understand what is and isn't sensual is incredibly difficult.
    *stares in consternation*
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