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Thread: ENTJ or INTP?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I suspected you were older.That's another cause of your lack of extreme differentiation. At your age, you should be less differentiated, and more diverse in your abilities. If you were still extremely defined, there might be something wrong with you. Whenever I test someone over the age of 25, I always have them answer the test questions according to the way they were when they were young - say between the ages of 10 & 20 because by the age of 25, we begin to develop our auxiliary function, and by the age of 40 begin to develop our tertiary function. Once we develop those further, that muddies the water as far as testing goes. No one "changes" their type, they only further develop it, so ultimately, it is helpful to understand how you were as a kid.
    Based on that, and on Xander's excellent insight, I would say you are an ENTJ who is doing very well at developing the auxiliary and tertiary dimensions of your type. ENTJ is "who you are" or at least who you started out to be, but now you have branched out, mellowed out, matured, and become more diverse in your skills and thinking. Consequently, you are less and less likely to find profiles that describe you now as accurately as they would have when you were younger.
    Thanks for that INTJMom. I agree with you about comparing what you were like when you were younger. Only thing is when I was really young I was also very shy and therefore quieter so that can be confused with being introverted. As Psychology Today points out "Introverts have the conversational skills and self esteem necessary for interacting successfully with others but prefer to be alone. Shy people want very much to be with others but lack the social skills and self-esteem." So I would say when I was younger I seemed more INTP-like but as I have gotten older and more confident (less shy) I seem more ENTJ-like. (So actually going in the reverse direction than you had thought). I can't say I prefer being alone for the hell of it. I like being with people Just not big hordes of them at one time.

    On the big five link you posted I got

    Extroversion (52%) results were medium which suggests you average somewhere in between being assertive and social and being withdrawn and solitary.
    Orderliness (52%) results were medium which suggests you are moderately organized, structured, and self controlled while still remaining flexible, varied, and fun.

    So maybe I am a mild ENTJ? Still, I find the descriptions for INTP and ENTJ fit me if I combine them. Actually the whole NT group - which means I am certain I am an NT at least!

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoon View Post
    So maybe I am a mild ENTJ? Still, I find the descriptions for INTP and ENTJ fit me if I combine them. Actually the whole NT group - which means I am certain I am an NT at least!
    The descriptions of INTPs and ENTJs are pretty general and could flex it's way to fit. Although one profile is characterize with a unique trait, it doesn't mean it's nonexistent in other profiles. So many people have problems distinguishing their types. The online tests do not really help as it's subjective, so it could lead to mixed results. I would say a good way to find your type is to read more profiles.

    Also,
    J entails more of a construction(combining multiple fundamental ideas together;foresight) thinking process.

    J does not necesarily mean that you have to do something. It just means that you can see into the future consequences easier through induction.

    P entails more of a decontruction(breaking a single complex idea apart;hindsight) thinking process.

    Yeah, I just wanted to clarify that. In MBTI, terms like extroversion, introversion, feeling, thinking, judging, perceiving, sensing, and intuition do not actually stand for their denotative definition.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Array INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoon View Post
    Thanks for that INTJMom. I agree with you about comparing what you were like when you were younger. Only thing is when I was really young I was also very shy and therefore quieter so that can be confused with being introverted. As Psychology Today points out "Introverts have the conversational skills and self esteem necessary for interacting successfully with others but prefer to be alone. Shy people want very much to be with others but lack the social skills and self-esteem." So I would say when I was younger I seemed more INTP-like but as I have gotten older and more confident (less shy) I seem more ENTJ-like. (So actually going in the reverse direction than you had thought). I can't say I prefer being alone for the hell of it. I like being with people Just not big hordes of them at one time.

    On the big five link you posted I got

    Extroversion (52&#37 results were medium which suggests you average somewhere in between being assertive and social and being withdrawn and solitary.
    Orderliness (52%) results were medium which suggests you are moderately organized, structured, and self controlled while still remaining flexible, varied, and fun.

    So maybe I am a mild ENTJ? Still, I find the descriptions for INTP and ENTJ fit me if I combine them. Actually the whole NT group - which means I am certain I am an NT at least!
    I agree you are a mild ENTJ.

    Did you look up these profiles at the 2 sites?
    How did they do at describing you?
    If you got 85%, that's about the most anyone can hope for.

    http://www.iusb.edu/~sbcareer/entj.pdf
    ENTJ Personality Types

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I agree you are a mild ENTJ.

    Did you look up these profiles at the 2 sites?
    How did they do at describing you?
    If you got 85%, that's about the most anyone can hope for.

    http://www.iusb.edu/~sbcareer/entj.pdf
    ENTJ Personality Types
    Yeah. Where the INTP and ENTJ descriptions cross over (which is natural because they are both NT) that definitely describes me. Like INTPs I like to make sense of the world as a concept. I think that is their main thing but their main drive is mostly to understand. But I then like to try making things (concepts, ideas) into a reality, ie do something with a concept that is concrete otherwise I feel like I am not doing anything constructive. On the ENTJ description you put there (and others) the things that stand out that apply to me that aren't really INTP things are that I,
    - like to be boss and in control
    - Sometimes bulldoze people into my point of view if I think it is right
    - I like organizations to be efficient and run smoothly and logically
    - happy to supervise others or make decisions for them
    - fast decision maker with initiative to make things happen
    - drawn to ambitious and competent people
    - would rather plan what I am going to do then be completely spontaneous
    - energetic
    - entreprenuerial
    Sometimes it does depend on which descriptions you read and probably you need to read a lot of them in depth to get a really good understanding. I guess people can be variations of types too with some being extreme versions of their type and others middle of the road like me.

  5. #25
    Lex Parsimoniae Array Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoon View Post
    - like to be boss and in control
    - Sometimes bulldoze people into my point of view if I think it is right
    - I like organizations to be efficient and run smoothly and logically
    - happy to supervise others or make decisions for them
    - fast decision maker with initiative to make things happen
    - drawn to ambitious and competent people
    - would rather plan what I am going to do then be completely spontaneous
    - energetic
    - entreprenuerial
    I first looked at this list and thought that if you met those points then you MUST be an ENTJ! However upon further analysis I realised that all of those points are present in the more aggressive INTPs at INTP Central. In fact if this is matched with being less decisive about your own affairs than others then I'd peg you more as INTP than ENTJ... odd as that may seem.

    I guess at your point of development though it's probably more accurate to just list both types and to hell with it all.

    One question, why is your precise type important?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    One question, why is your precise type important?
    It's not important really. I do question why type is so dichotomous? Are there really 16 distinct types or in reality variations inbetween (aggressive INTP/mild ENTJ etc)? So thought I would ask you guys what you think and you have provided some good answers. My question is about MBTI as much as my own type. I like Psychology.

    I visited INTPCentral but I didn't think anyone was particularly aggressive.

  7. #27
    Lex Parsimoniae Array Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoon View Post
    It's not important really. I do question why type is so dichotomous? Are there really 16 distinct types or in reality variations inbetween (aggressive INTP/mild ENTJ etc)? So thought I would ask you guys what you think and you have provided some good answers. My question is about MBTI as much as my own type. I like Psychology.
    Ah I see. Right, if you have a precise type it is called you. Now this description is of little or no use to me unless I know what the description "you" constitutes. Ergo we must decide on common descriptors and utilise those to communicate. Now if there's more descriptors than characters in the Japanese language then the whole system is going to be very unwieldy and it would require years of study to extract any sense out of it. Therefore the simplest of models is presented to begin with. Only sixteen types. Fairly accurate but by no means all encompassing.

    (I've looked at fine definitions many times and come to the conclusion that it's interesting but essentially too much information to use, plus you get more contradictions (try matching INTP up with the description of a social 9 [from the enneagram] and you'll see my point ))

    Now if you want more accuracy then you need to test other facets of your personality. MBTI is cognitive wiring, processing, so perhaps something to do with your approach like FIRO-B or something more to do with goals like the enneagram?

    (Possibly preaching to the converted but what the hell )
    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoon View Post
    I visited INTPCentral but I didn't think anyone was particularly aggressive.
    ENTJ.

    NEXT!
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    (I've looked at fine definitions many times and come to the conclusion that it's interesting but essentially too much information to use, plus you get more contradictions (try matching INTP up with the description of a social 9 [from the enneagram] and you'll see my point ))
    Ok I will avoid that one! (or make someone else do it for me)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoon View Post
    I visited INTPCentral but I didn't think anyone was particularly aggressive.
    ENTJ.

    NEXT!
    Alright you win then (Did I say that out loud?). Look left.

  9. #29
    Lex Parsimoniae Array Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoon View Post
    Ok I will avoid that one! (or make someone else do it for me)
    Okay yeah that sounds ENTJish enough. You passed

    Can't be bothered with fiddly bits = ENTJ.
    Quote Originally Posted by darkmoon View Post
    Alright you win then (Did I say that out loud?). Look left.
    I was going to say I was only kidding but I think you're verifying the type.

    What made you think other than ENTJ for your type btw? I realise you may not have been born as Churchill or some military general but you do seem quite classic to me (mind you I figured my father is an example of an ENTJ who's spent time introverted because he has problems with his hearing so perhaps my control subject is a little off).
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    What made you think other than ENTJ for your type btw? I realise you may not have been born as Churchill or some military general but you do seem quite classic to me (mind you I figured my father is an example of an ENTJ who's spent time introverted because he has problems with his hearing so perhaps my control subject is a little off).
    Always got clear results for NT part of the test but E/I and P/J in the middle-ish so I read all the descriptions for NTs. Yeah, I am no Churchill and used to be shy so that is why I considered INTP and I definitely put thinking first on the list as dominant not intuition. And I like INTPs! They are smart.

    I know some ENTJs who are quite laid back so your father probably isn't such a bad subject.

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