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INTP vs. ISFJ-- the big showdown

Such Irony

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This is an offshoot off my typing thread

Since suggestions have been made for both INTP and ISFJ with a couple admitting that it was narrowed down to those two types, I thought I'd elaborate in more detail what fits and doesn't fit with these two types.


First, the INTP description from Personality Page

I'm not going to paste the entire description here so as to shorten the post but I will say that about 85-90% of the description fits me to a T (pun intended). I'm going to elaborate on just the parts I'm less sure about or don't quite fit here:

*The INTP has no understanding or value for decisions made on the basis of personal subjectivity or feelings.
--> I don't relate to this. Feelings are definitely important and weigh into my decisions. I think in general I tend to decide on logic more but there's no denying feelings here.

*INTPs are usually not in-tune with how people are feeling, and are not naturally well equipped to meet the emotional needs of others.
--> Partially agree/disagree. I think this was more true when I was younger. I'm not always entirely confident of my ability to correctly interpret body language and wondering if I'm missing some important clues. If the body language is made obvious though and if they explicitly tell me how they're feeling, I'm receptive to it. I'm capable of meeting others' emotional needs but would prefer not too. I don't feel confident in such situations, worry about my ability to effectively calm stressed people down or cheer sad people up. I would rather leave these sorts of things to someone else.

*The INTP may have a problem with self-aggrandizement and social rebellion.
--> Not true of me. If anything, I'm overly humble and selling myself short. Socially I'm not openly rebellious. I appear pretty conventional to most people, probably because a) I want to keep my job b) I desire harmonious relations with others, and C) I don't want to draw too much attention to myself.
There are some social conventions that I rebel more silently against.

*Exhibits weakness in performing maintenance-type tasks, such as bill-paying and dressing appropriately.
--> Again not true. I'm actually quite good at maintenance type tasks. I keep a clean apartment for example. I pay all my bills on time and in full. The dressing part was an issue when I was younger. I used to have terrible fashion sense- I'd dress sloppily with things wrinkled and mismatched and didn't care one bit. I'm not like that anymore. I'm by no means trendy and fashion isn't a high priority but I take care to look presentable and appropriate.

*INTP is not naturally likely to tailor the truth so as to explain it in an understandable way to others.
--> Generally not true. This may have been more of a problem when I was younger. As I got older, I learned that some people are not as mentally quick or that my ideas are rather complex and I need to look for ways to simplify my explanations. I care about having my ideas understood properly by others.

*They are not likely to place much value on traditional goals such as popularity or security.
--> I care somewhat more about popularity as some of my more recent threads indicate. However, I'm not into having friends for the sake of having friends. Quality is definitely more important than quantity. Still I don't wish to be ignored and I like having my presence acknowledged. I also care a great deal about security in all its various forms: physical, emotional, and financial and work hard towards achieving greater security in my life.

 

Such Irony

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And now the ISFJ Personality Page description.

Overall the description was about 75-80% fitting. A little less than INTP but fitting enough that I cannot disregard ISFJ as a possible type.

To save space, I'll just elaborate the parts I'm less sure about or don't fit:

*Respects traditions and laws. They tend to believe that existing systems are there because they work. Therefore, they're not likely to buy into doing things in a new way, unless they're shown in a concrete way why its better than the established method.
--> Its true that I am generally respectful of most traditions and laws. However, I'm not interested in tradition for its own sake unless its got some real sentimental value to me. I'm quick to discard methods that don't work and seek to improve and change things far more than an average ISFJ would, I think. At work, I seem more receptive to changes than alot of my colleagues. For example, if we get new computer software, other colleagues will talk about how they hate the change whereas I'm willing to accept a somewhat steep learning curve if I can see the exciting possibilities it will bring. Sometimes I'm even naively enthusiastic about some new changes. Others, not so much. I don't like every change that takes place but overall, I think I tolerate change better than most ISFJs I know. On the other hand, change for the sake of change doesn't appeal to me much either. I'm most likely to want change not out of boredom but more the case of seeing that something is not currently working and seeing ways to improve it.

*ISFJs learn best by doing, rather than by reading about something in a book, or applying theory. For this reason, they are not likely to be found in fields which require a lot of conceptual analysis or theory.
--> Somewhat true/false. Alot depends on what I'm learning and the context. If its a practical skill that's more physical in nature, I will need to have the opportunity to physically go through the motions to insure that I understand it properly. With other things, I'm just happy to read about it and theorize it without any practical application .

*The ISFJ has an extremely well-developed sense of space, function, and aesthetic appeal. For that reason, they're likely to have beautifully furnished, functional homes. They make extremely good interior decorators. This special ability, combined with their sensitivity to other's feelings and desires, makes them very likely to be great gift-givers - finding the right gift which will be truly appreciated by the recipient.
--> Again somewhat true/false. I think my aestetic sense is pretty average. I have the potential to develop good aestetic sense, I think. My family seems to think I have a good sense of what looks good together. It's never been a top priority of mine though. I hate giving gifts. Largely because I very much want the recipient to like what I gave them but yet I feel like I don't know enough about the recipient to really make a good decision. So sometimes I resort to 'safe' things like a gift certificate to a store I know they frequent.

*Extremely aware of their own internal feelings, as well as other people's feelings.
--> I'm extremely aware of my own internal feeling but I'm not so sure about others' feelings. Sometimes I miss certain body language cues. If the body language is obvious and the person explicitly states their feelings, I will be sensitive and receptive to the other. I will say I often have an insecurity revolving around others' feelings. For example: Are they *truly* satisfied or are they just saying that?

*The ISFJ has a difficult time saying "no" when asked to do something, and may become over-burdened. In such cases, the ISFJ does not usually express their difficulties to others, because they intensely dislike conflict, and because they tend to place other people's needs over their own. The ISFJ needs to learn to identify, value, and express their own needs, if they wish to avoid becoming over-worked and taken for granted.
--> Partially true/false. I have an easier time at it than some ISFJs I know. I try to be careful not to get overly involved with others as I don't like being overburdened and I like to have a lot of "me" time. On the other hand, if I don't think there is anyone else that's available to help or no one with the right skill set except for me, it can be hard to say no. I don't like to leave people helplessly 'hanging' and if I say no, I feel like I have to bear some of the responsibility for the person's problems. I know at work, I've actually been told by my boss a few times that I shouldn't be afraid to draw clearer boundaries and just flat out say "no". I work in the library and help alot of customers with using the library computers. I'm one of the more computer savvy ones and there have been times where I've been the only one on duty who knew how to do a certain thing. The problem is sometimes the customers requests are complicated and take a long time to fulfill but I tried to help them anyway rather than declining their request or suggesting they come in at a later time because they just seemed so insistent and what they were doing just seemed so important to them and there was no one else they could ask. Sometimes they were doing things considered "urgent" like applying for a job under a tight deadline.
 

Such Irony

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Here's another thing I want to mention. I really *don't* want to be an ISFJ. I'd much rather be an INTP. However if I had the ultimate power to choose, I'd go with ENTJ or ENTP. I don't know if that's suggestive of type. Just because you prefer something doesn't mean you are that.

I hope I'm not offending any ISFJs here, but I read the ISFJ descriptions and they seem so boring, like all these people do is blindly accept and follow rules and serve others without having much of a life of their own because they are spending all their time serving others. Who wants to live a life like that? Okay, I know that's being rather judgemental. I know a couple ISFJs like that but they are probably not the most psychologically healthy. I'm sure there are ISFJs who are not doormats, who have enough independence of mind to question traditions and the ways things are done. There is a lot of variation in a given type.

I think partly why the ISFJ descriptions hold far less appeal than the INTP or other NT ones is because ISFJ is such a common type. According to the MBTI form M data, 1 in 5 females is an ISFJ and around 13% of the general population. If it sounds rather generic its because it could apply to a huge number of people. The INTP description feels more 'special' somehow, probably because it is a rarer type. Also, the way the ISFJ descriptions are worded make them sound like boring, bland people. They are probably not written by ISFJs but rather someone's conception of an ISFJ.

Maybe this points away from me being ISFJ; maybe it doesn't. I wonder how ISFJs view the ISFJ description. I know some who are quite happy being ISFJ.

ISFJ just doesn't seem like the time to make history and just blend in. If I'm ISFJ, I'm an atypical one because I don't want to just blend in unnoticed. I want to stand out more (in a good way of course). I remember reading Neidnagel's Brain Types book and I don't think there were any exemplars of famous ISFJs. ENTPs on the other hand had a huge list.

Here's another thing. I use alot of Ne- at least I think I do. Correct me if I'm wrong. I feel too Ne to be ISFJ- it's their inferior function after all. I do though, relate somewhat to the description of inferior Ne in ISFJs- catastrophizing and imaging horrible possibilities. Overall though, my demons are more in the Fe arena than the Ne arena.
 

Savage Idealist

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Originally posted by SuchIrony
I hope I'm not offending any ISFJs here, but I read the ISFJ descriptions and they seem so boring, like all these people do is blindly accept and follow rules and serve others without having much of a life of their own because they are spending all their time serving others. Who wants to live a life like that? Okay, I know that's being rather judgemental. I know a couple ISFJs like that but they are probably not the most psychologically healthy. I'm sure there are ISFJs who are not doormats, who have enough independence of mind to question traditions and the ways things are done. There is a lot of variation in a given type.

Very true. ISFJ are no more doormats than INTP's are robots. Fe is not about conforming blindly to the will of others nor is Si about follwing all rules and traditions without question. Personally I never really did like any of the descriptions all that much.

Anyway in that regard I think that function wise, your probably an INTP with a very well developed Si and Fe, which may be why you sometimes seem to be ISFJ.
 

INTP

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Here's another thing I want to mention. I really *don't* want to be an ISFJ. I'd much rather be an INTP. However if I had the ultimate power to choose, I'd go with ENTJ or ENTP. I don't know if that's suggestive of type. Just because you prefer something doesn't mean you are that.

I hope I'm not offending any ISFJs here, but I read the ISFJ descriptions and they seem so boring, like all these people do is blindly accept and follow rules and serve others without having much of a life of their own because they are spending all their time serving others. Who wants to live a life like that? Okay, I know that's being rather judgemental. I know a couple ISFJs like that but they are probably not the most psychologically healthy. I'm sure there are ISFJs who are not doormats, who have enough independence of mind to question traditions and the ways things are done. There is a lot of variation in a given type.

I think partly why the ISFJ descriptions hold far less appeal than the INTP or other NT ones is because ISFJ is such a common type. According to the MBTI form M data, 1 in 5 females is an ISFJ and around 13% of the general population. If it sounds rather generic its because it could apply to a huge number of people. The INTP description feels more 'special' somehow, probably because it is a rarer type. Also, the way the ISFJ descriptions are worded make them sound like boring, bland people. They are probably not written by ISFJs but rather someone's conception of an ISFJ.

Maybe this points away from me being ISFJ; maybe it doesn't. I wonder how ISFJs view the ISFJ description. I know some who are quite happy being ISFJ.

ISFJ just doesn't seem like the time to make history and just blend in. If I'm ISFJ, I'm an atypical one because I don't want to just blend in unnoticed. I want to stand out more (in a good way of course). I remember reading Neidnagel's Brain Types book and I don't think there were any exemplars of famous ISFJs. ENTPs on the other hand had a huge list.

Here's another thing. I use alot of Ne- at least I think I do. Correct me if I'm wrong. I feel too Ne to be ISFJ- it's their inferior function after all. I do though, relate somewhat to the description of inferior Ne in ISFJs- catastrophizing and imaging horrible possibilities. Overall though, my demons are more in the Fe arena than the Ne arena.

too much text in this topic to read all, but what you said here about not wanting to be ISFJ because of its description, personally i dont understand why the heck are you talking about this. what you want to be has nothing to do with what you are and some profile doesent define you.. this makes you seem more Fe than Ti

i get that you are most likely thinking this kind of like that you might want to be what you truly are. you should consider that if you are ISFJ, you might want to be INTP because INTP has strength in what you have weakness in.

how do you know that you use Ne that much? its the EP function for ISFJ, so when you use external perception you use Ne. but how can you be sure that you use Ne alot? it could be easy to get Fe Si mistaken for Ne. because N comes from unconscious, so its hard to see where did the connection between some external things came from, now when you use dom Si and this connection between some external things came from past experiences, you use the dom Si so fluidly, that it kinda like just pops in your mind without having to think about it, just like Ne popping out from the unconscious without having to think about the connections all that much. then there is this basic human psychological factor where people cant really see their own psyche all that well.

edit.
one example of this Ne Si thing would be when i was making tea in kitchen and there was this documentary coming from tv and i just got this feeling that it would end pretty soon. i didnt see it from the beginning, so i couldnt know that it would end because it had been going on for so long that it would end soon. when i got back from kitchen the program lasted about minute or two and ended. i started analyzing this thing how i knew that it would end and came to conclusion that it was because how the program changed from the story teller(or what ever its called) to different scientists speaking. but i havent payed any attention to this kind of thing before, so i didnt have a clear(that i could recognize consciously) structure of this sort of thing.
Im not sure how much Ne or Si i was using on this, its pretty much impossible to say. but understanding the system a bit and knowing my function strengths(Ne around 40 and Si around 25-30), its fair to say that i was using more Ne than Si.
i think Si dom would have clearer understanding on why the program is going to end, without having to analyze/trying to figure out it later. this Ne Si thing is basically seeing the connections from outer world and comparing it to the storage room in inner world. Si dom would have better access to this storage room, but weaker understanding of new connections. but this sort of example that i used could be figured out by both dom Ne and dom Si, so analyzing this sort of things could give you more understanding on if you are INTP or ISFJ
 

Such Irony

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too much text in this topic to read all, but what you said here about not wanting to be ISFJ because of its description, personally i dont understand why the heck are you talking about this. what you want to be has nothing to do with what you are and some profile doesent define you.. this makes you seem more Fe than Ti

i get that you are most likely thinking this kind of like that you might want to be what you truly are. you should consider that if you are ISFJ, you might want to be INTP because INTP has strength in what you have weakness in.

I have alot of the INTP strengths in addition to the ISFJ ones, making it confusing.

Not wanting to be a certain type, I agree doesn't sound very Ti like. It's like I get these strong feelings and impressions associated with different types that can be hard to shake.

I was thinking it could also be an Fi thing. I'm quite sure now that I'm not an Fi type but Fi has its own internal set of values and I could see them 'valuing' one type over another.

how do you know that you use Ne that much? its the EP function for ISFJ, so when you use external perception you use Ne. but how can you be sure that you use Ne alot?

I think alot about different possibilities, make lots of connections and inferences. Like- it could be this, this, or this without definitively settling on just one.


edit.
one example of this Ne Si thing would be when i was making tea in kitchen and there was this documentary coming from tv and i just got this feeling that it would end pretty soon. i didnt see it from the beginning, so i couldnt know that it would end because it had been going on for so long that it would end soon. when i got back from kitchen the program lasted about minute or two and ended. i started analyzing this thing how i knew that it would end and came to conclusion that it was because how the program changed from the story teller(or what ever its called) to different scientists speaking. but i havent payed any attention to this kind of thing before, so i didnt have a clear(that i could recognize consciously) structure of this sort of thing.
Im not sure how much Ne or Si i was using on this, its pretty much impossible to say. but understanding the system a bit and knowing my function strengths(Ne around 40 and Si around 25-30), its fair to say that i was using more Ne than Si.
i think Si dom would have clearer understanding on why the program is going to end, without having to analyze/trying to figure out it later. this Ne Si thing is basically seeing the connections from outer world and comparing it to the storage room in inner world. Si dom would have better access to this storage room, but weaker understanding of new connections. but this sort of example that i used could be figured out by both dom Ne and dom Si, so analyzing this sort of things could give you more understanding on if you are INTP or ISFJ

Interesting example. I do what you're describing as well. I don't think I'd spend a whole of time on thinking why the program was going to end but if I really thought about I could give you reasons.
 

INTP

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I have alot of the INTP strengths in addition to the ISFJ ones, making it confusing.

Not wanting to be a certain type, I agree doesn't sound very Ti like. It's like I get these strong feelings and impressions associated with different types that can be hard to shake.

I was thinking it could also be an Fi thing. I'm quite sure now that I'm not an Fi type but Fi has its own internal set of values and I could see them 'valuing' one type over another.



I think alot about different possibilities, make lots of connections and inferences. Like- it could be this, this, or this without definitively settling on just one.




Interesting example. I do what you're describing as well. I don't think I'd spend a whole of time on thinking why the program was going to end but if I really thought about I could give you reasons.

ofc you got INTP strengths if you got good Ti and Ne.

but you know not all connection makings are from Ne, Ne makes the connection unconsciously. like when i just knew that the program will end soon, it was my unconscious that made the connection between the things that led me thinking that the program will end soon. because the connections were made unconsciously, i only had the feeling that the program will end without knowing why. naturally i can go back and analyze where did this come from etc and even understand it fully, but its because of Ne that makes me need to go back. people who make connections without Ne, using Ti for example would see why these things are connected, because they would reason the connections consciously before coming into conclusion that 'ah here is the connection between these'. so not all connection making comes from Ne, Ne is just unconscious connecting, while other connection makings need more or less conscious efforts.

the deal with that program ending thing, is that i didnt have to think about if it will end or not, i just suddenly got this feeling that its going to end soon, so i hurried with tea brewing, just in case.

its pretty much impossible for me to say if you are an ISFJ or INTP, you just need to figure it out by yourself. have you looked into roles of the functions and thought how the roles fit to you? also have you made some tests about functions strengths?
 

Elfboy

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I'm still feeling an INFJ vibe. do you have any cognitive function tests results?
 

Such Irony

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I've taken the test a few times now and typically, I average the following scores on each function:

Ne: 40
Ti, Si, Fi: 35
Te: 30
Ni: 25
Se: 20
Fe: 15

I would expect the Ni and Fe to be a lot higher if I was actually an INFJ.

I don't think some of the questions for Ni and Fe are very good. Especially the Fe ones. I could strong introverts not relating to some of those even if they have good access to Fe.

I'll try to write more about this later.
 

Tallulah

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Have you been to INTP Central? Spend a week or two posting there, and you should have a better idea of whether you are INTP. It's like being steeped in INTPness, and you'll either relate (at least somewhat) or know for sure that you can't relate.

Another thought. My roommate is ISFJ, and we get along amazingly well...there are many areas in which we approach things the same way, and she's only J-like about a few things. Not a strong J at all, or just J in ways that don't really affect other people. She's not boring in the slightest, and she's extremely intelligent and has her own opinions about things. She doesn't blindly follow tradition. Before she took the test, she thought she was INFP. She's definitely ISFJ, though.
 

The_World_As_Will

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I think that you are neither, from the myriad of threads you've created on the topic, it seems like you are an INFJ, tertiary Ti is why you are creating all of these threads, seeking a logical, consistent validation from us here at TypeC, I would agree with INTP when he wrote this "too much text in this topic to read all, but what you said here about not wanting to be ISFJ because of its description, personally i dont understand why the heck are you talking about this. what you want to be has nothing to do with what you are and some profile doesent define you.. this makes you seem more Fe than Ti" , backs my opinion that you are an INFJ, you are using auxiliary Fe to emotionally appeal your case, and tertiary Ti to seek a logical constant in results, I say good on ya, atleast you're searching for an answer rather diligently, maybe you should interact with other INFJs more? I think that it would help give you some perspective, but yeah I'm just not seeing INTP in you, ISFJ never crossed my mind... at all
 

Such Irony

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Have you been to INTP Central? Spend a week or two posting there, and you should have a better idea of whether you are INTP. It's like being steeped in INTPness, and you'll either relate (at least somewhat) or know for sure that you can't relate.

Another thought. My roommate is ISFJ, and we get along amazingly well...there are many areas in which we approach things the same way, and she's only J-like about a few things. Not a strong J at all, or just J in ways that don't really affect other people. She's not boring in the slightest, and she's extremely intelligent and has her own opinions about things. She doesn't blindly follow tradition. Before she took the test, she thought she was INFP. She's definitely ISFJ, though.

I've only lurked a little bit on INTP Central and never bothered to set up an account. I do post on the INTP subform over on Personality Cafe and I very much relate to many of the INTPs over there. I'm also lurking on the ISFJ and INFJ subforums over there as well but its too soon to tell how much I relate/don't relate. I should post in those forums rather than just lurk.

It's nice to know there are non-boring ISFJs out there who think for themselves.

I think that you are neither, from the myriad of threads you've created on the topic, it seems like you are an INFJ, tertiary Ti is why you are creating all of these threads, seeking a logical, consistent validation from us here at TypeC, I would agree with INTP when he wrote this "too much text in this topic to read all, but what you said here about not wanting to be ISFJ because of its description, personally i dont understand why the heck are you talking about this. what you want to be has nothing to do with what you are and some profile doesent define you.. this makes you seem more Fe than Ti" , backs my opinion that you are an INFJ, you are using auxiliary Fe to emotionally appeal your case, and tertiary Ti to seek a logical constant in results, I say good on ya, atleast you're searching for an answer rather diligently, maybe you should interact with other INFJs more? I think that it would help give you some perspective, but yeah I'm just not seeing INTP in you, ISFJ never crossed my mind... at all

Thanks for the feedback. I really should interact with INFJs more. Maybe go to an INFJ forum and see how well I fit in. I guess the largest reason why previously I rejected INFJ as a possibility is that I have trouble seeing dominant Ni in myself. It could be the poorly written descriptions that think its all psychic and new-agey, or that I'm just not seeing myself objectively, or that functions are crap and we really should only focus on the letters.

I know tests don't mean much either but I want to point out that I've only tested as an INFJ a handful of times and ISFJ only once. On the other hand I've tested as INTP dozens of times. I've tried very hard to answer the questions objectively as I truly see myself but maybe I am disillusioning myself.

Here's one more data point. I'm coming to realize that I'm not entirely confident in my thinking ability or level of intelligence even though I consistently score high on intelligence tests and have had numerous people tell me how intelligent I am. I've often looked for reinforcement in this area- I don't think a dominant Ti would do this as much. I remember when growing up, I often challenged myself with various sorts of mental masturbatory activities like brainteasers. I'd feel great if I could solve it as if somehow that was validation for my intelligence and feel lousy at times when I struggled with them.

I'll do a write up on how I fit/don't fit INFJ later.
 

kelric

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Well, my two cents is that it's perfectly okay if you identify with both INTP and ISFJ traits. Most of what you'll read in type descriptions (which *are* better than tests, for the most part) tends to be pretty polarized, in that it describes an accentuated set of traits -- just because you don't identify strongly with every one in the list doesn't mean that a given type isn't still not the best fit for you. Additionally, I know that I'm not always in the majority with this opinion, but in the end, does it really matter what type you're most closely associated with? Nothing wrong with taking from the model what you can and using it as a tool to learn about yourself and others, even if it doesn't fit you to a "T" (haha). This will probably apply even more to you as you get older (like me :D).

Also, don't think that because a lot of ISFJ descriptions are "boring" that's a reason to downplay ISFJ's and do the "I don't want to be one" thing. A lot of type descriptions are biased against sensors, particularly SJ's. There are a lot of awesome ISFJ's out there in the world (see: Giggly, etc), so if you're one of them, be proud :).

Have you been to INTP Central? Spend a week or two posting there, and you should have a better idea of whether you are INTP. It's like being steeped in INTPness, and you'll either relate (at least somewhat) or know for sure that you can't relate.
But for God's sake, don't tell them that you're trying to decide if you're an INTP or an ISFJ. There are a lot of nice, cool people on that forum, but there's also a subpopulation that will descend on you like a pack of hungry jackals on a baby gazelle if you so much mention that INTP's and ISFJ's might have something in common :D.
 

Athenian200

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Have you been to INTP Central? Spend a week or two posting there, and you should have a better idea of whether you are INTP. It's like being steeped in INTPness, and you'll either relate (at least somewhat) or know for sure that you can't relate.

I was about to suggest that myself. I don't think it would take the OP very long posting over there to see that she's a different type, personally...

I think that you are neither, from the myriad of threads you've created on the topic, it seems like you are an INFJ, tertiary Ti is why you are creating all of these threads, seeking a logical, consistent validation from us here at TypeC, I would agree with INTP when he wrote this "too much text in this topic to read all, but what you said here about not wanting to be ISFJ because of its description, personally i dont understand why the heck are you talking about this. what you want to be has nothing to do with what you are and some profile doesent define you.. this makes you seem more Fe than Ti" , backs my opinion that you are an INFJ, you are using auxiliary Fe to emotionally appeal your case, and tertiary Ti to seek a logical constant in results, I say good on ya, atleast you're searching for an answer rather diligently, maybe you should interact with other INFJs more? I think that it would help give you some perspective, but yeah I'm just not seeing INTP in you, ISFJ never crossed my mind... at all

I'm glad that you see IFJ now. Welcome to my side of the argument. :yes:

I was hoping more people would start to see her Fe as operating in something other than an inferior role. It just... doesn't make sense, not the way she expresses her preferences and sensitivities, and how she relates or doesn't relate to people. Oh, and all those threads about social image, acknowledgement and such. I really can't see an INTP starting them. At the very least, I think it indicates a J preference.
 

Tallulah

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I was hoping more people would start to see her Fe as operating in something other than an inferior role. It just... doesn't make sense, not the way she expresses her preferences and sensitivities, and how she relates or doesn't relate to people. Oh, and all those threads about social image, acknowledgement and such. I really can't see an INTP starting them. At the very least, I think it indicates a J preference.

Yeah, this part trips me up, too, as far as INTP-ing goes. It would be highly, highly unusual for an INTP to start so many threads about fitting in or being popular or recognized, or to be bothered by things like someone rating their thread one star. INTPs don't tend to notice or care about that sort of thing. Most figure they'll fit in with whom they fit in with, and screw it if people don't like them. It's not to say INTPs don't have insecure moments, and no one likes to be ignored, but this is a social awareness trend that doesn't strike me as INTP-ish at all. INTPs are more likely to be annoyed by having their ideas ignored, rather than them being ignored as social beings. And the usual response is to move on, rather than call attention to our emotional state, for fear of looking needy. This is part of why I'm having a hard time reading SI as INTP.
 

lunalum

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My current hypothesis from the information in this thread is that you are an Intp, just barely NTP enough to qualify for the INTP license but not quite SFJ enough to qualify for the ISFJ license. I think that being balanced between NTP and SFJ is an uncommon pattern at this forum and at INTPc (but perhaps more common at Per.C) so this may be why there is so much confusion and why there might be this sense of not fitting in.
 

INTP

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My current hypothesis from the information in this thread is that you are an Intp, just barely NTP enough to qualify for the INTP license but not quite SFJ enough to qualify for the ISFJ license. I think that being balanced between NTP and SFJ is an uncommon pattern at this forum and at INTPc (but perhaps more common at Per.C) so this may be why there is so much confusion and why there might be this sense of not fitting in.

that big I needs to come from an introverted function, with INTP it would come from Ti, and high Ti and low other functions would make him big INTP. mbti introversion/extraversion is about orientation of the dominant function, not about if you are a social butterfly or not, so big I with other letters small doesent make any sense with mbti
 

lunalum

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Well, if we are talking strictly functions, SuchIrony is clearly ENxP due to Ne being strongest and Ti, Fi, and Si being balanced at second.

But I don't think those always work.

It is not that SuchIrony is very introverted, but that there is a clear preference there, while the other preferences are barely there. And I'm talking introversion more in the sense of being more inwardly focused, and not at all in the 'social butterfly' sense.
 

Noon

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SuchIrony: What is boring anyway? For something so subjective we’d need a standard first, and even the standard would be so subjective that it would become irrelevant once you move out of that context. Besides that, why are the general interests of SJs (all the sensors in fact) so often judged by NP standards (even by non-NPs)? :laugh: What reasons are there for that being the supreme standard other than N-centrism, overrepresentation of Ns and underrepresentation of Ss, and greater misconceptions about how auxiliary and dominant S functions truly operate?

I really don’t like most ISFJ profiles. I don’t like them so much that I barely even read them (much less reference them). If I could, I would single-handedly rewrite all of them. Please don’t think of them as the Rosetta Stone of SJness. Please also keep in mind that your functions should be measured by role and behavior more than strength. SJ Ne is there (sometimes strongly so), it just performs very differently than from what you would see in NPs.
 

Eric B

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Yeah, this part trips me up, too, as far as INTP-ing goes. It would be highly, highly unusual for an INTP to start so many threads about fitting in or being popular or recognized, or to be bothered by things like someone rating their thread one star. INTPs don't tend to notice or care about that sort of thing. Most figure they'll fit in with whom they fit in with, and screw it if people don't like them. It's not to say INTPs don't have insecure moments, and no one likes to be ignored, but this is a social awareness trend that doesn't strike me as INTP-ish at all. INTPs are more likely to be annoyed by having their ideas ignored, rather than them being ignored as social beings. And the usual response is to move on, rather than call attention to our emotional state, for fear of looking needy. This is part of why I'm having a hard time reading SI as INTP.
I think this is because of the Interaction Style, and the fact that while the Interaction Styles match the ancient four temperaments, there is actually a fifth temperament, and Behind the Scenes (INP) ends up as being either of two possible temperaments.

Most INTP's are the classic Phlegmatic, so its social behavior has become "typical" for the type:
http://www.pastoral-counseling-center.org/Temperament-Area-of-Inclusion/supine-inclusion.htm

While some, myself included, are the new temperament, Supine, and she has even identified with this already:
http://www.pastoral-counseling-center.org/Temperament-Area-of-Inclusion/supine-inclusion.htm

This temperament does have a stronger need for social acceptance, and usually has trouble getting enough for their satisfaction. So there will also be a heightened Feeling vibe, and increased sensitivity compared to other INTP's.
But the actual type is really based on the dom/aux functions moreso than these "traits", and the cognitive preference will still match the others.

Also, even the wanting so much to wear a type I see as possibly a sign of Ti. You want to fit yourself into the category. Types are categories (of people), and Ti wants to fit the ego into the system. This was what I realized was why I struggled so hard to verify my type. A few people said that was Feeling or something, but it really was more impersonal than personal.
 
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