KDude
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INTP vs. ISFJ-- the big showdown
- Thread starter Such Irony
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Such Irony
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Okay, here's the ISFJ description that Bury Me Closer Posted.
Bolded: Very much fits
Italics: Somewhat fits
ISFJs are characterized above all by their desire to serve others and their "need to be needed." In extreme cases, this need is so strong that standard give-and-take relationships are deeply unsatisfying to them; however, most ISFJs find more than enough with which to occupy themselves within the framework of a normal life. (Since ISFJs, like all SJs, are very much bound by the prevailing social conventions, their form of "service" is likely to exclude any elements of moral or political controversy; they specialize in the local, the personal, and the practical.)
NOTE: I like feeling "needed" yet I don't really enjoy serving others that much. It feels like an imposition on my own free time.
ISFJs are often unappreciated, at work, home, and play. Ironically, because they prove over and over that they can be relied on for their loyalty and unstinting, high-quality work, those around them often take them for granted--even take advantage of them. Admittedly, the problem is sometimes aggravated by the ISFJs themselves; for instance, they are notoriously bad at delegating ("If you want it done right, do it yourself"). And although they're hurt by being treated like doormats, they are often unwilling to toot their own horns about their accomplishments because they feel that although they deserve more credit than they're getting, it's somehow wrong to want any sort of reward for doing work (which is supposed to be a virtue in itself). (And as low-profile Is, their actions don't call attention to themselves as with charismatic Es.) Because of all of this, ISFJs are often overworked, and as a result may suffer from psychosomatic illnesses.
In the workplace, ISFJs are methodical and accurate workers, often with very good memories and unexpected analytic abilities; they are also good with people in small-group or one-on-one situations because of their patient and genuinely sympathetic approach to dealing with others. ISFJs make pleasant and reliable co-workers and exemplary employees, but tend to be harried and uncomfortable in supervisory roles. They are capable of forming strong loyalties, but these are personal rather than institutional loyalties; if someone they've bonded with in this way leaves the company, the ISFJ will leave with them, if given the option. Traditional careers for an ISFJ include: teaching, social work, most religious work, nursing, medicine (general practice only), clerical and and secretarial work of any kind, and some kinds of administrative careers.
NOTE: I'm a librarian, which I think is fairly common among ISFJ.
While their work ethic is high on the ISFJ priority list, their families are the centers of their lives.
NOTE: While its true I love my family, I don't feel like family is the center of my life nor I am that interested in making it the center. I value my independence and my me time too much.
ISFJs are extremely warm and demonstrative within the family circle--and often possessive of their loved ones, as well. When these include Es who want to socialize with the rest of the world, or self-contained ITs, the ISFJ must learn to adjust to these behaviors and not interpret them as rejection. Being SJs, they place a strong emphasis on conventional behavior (although, unlike STJs, they are usually as concerned with being "nice" as with strict propriety); if any of their nearest and dearest depart from the straight-and-narrow, it causes the ISFJ major embarrassment: the closer the relationship and the more public the act, the more intense the embarrassment (a fact which many of their teenage children take gleeful advantage of). Over time, however, ISFJs usually mellow, and learn to regard the culprits as harmless eccentrics
. Needless to say, ISFJs take infinite trouble over meals, gifts, celebrations, etc., for their loved ones--although strong Js may tend to focus more on what the recipient should want rather than what they do want.
Like most Is, ISFJs have a few, close friends. They are extremely loyal to these, and are ready to provide emotional and practical support at a moment's notice. (However, like most Fs they hate confrontation; if you get into a fight, don't expect them to jump in after you. You can count on them, however, run and get the nearest authority figure.)
NOTE: I hate conflict yet I won't put with injustice. I will confront in such situations.
Unlike with EPs, the older the friendship is, the more an ISFJ will value it. One ISFJ trait that is easily misunderstood by those who haven't known them long is that they are often unable to either hide or articulate any distress they may be feeling. For instance, an ISFJ child may be reproved for "sulking," the actual cause of which is a combination of physical illness plus misguided "good manners." An adult ISFJ may drive a (later ashamed) friend or SO into a fit of temper over the ISFJ's unexplained moodiness, only afterwards to explain about a death in the family they "didn't want to burden anyone with." Those close to ISFJs should learn to watch for the warning signs in these situations and take the initiative themselves to uncover the problem.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Functional Analysis
by Joe Butt
Introverted Sensing
As for ISTJs, the dominant Si is oriented toward the world of forms, essences, generics. Again, "for both of the IS_J types, the sense of propriety comes from the clear definition of these internal forms. ... A 'proper' chair has four legs," etc. (Jung saw IS as something of an oxymoron: sensing, which is a perceiving function, focused inward and thus away from that which is perceived (the "object"). In this light, he described this sensing as something removed from reality, full of archetypes/mythical figures/hobgoblins; sensing of one's own set of forms.)
NOTE: Description is kinda vague here. Hard to tell how well I relate to it but I definitely relate to the chair example.
Extraverted Feeling
A kind of "regression toward the mean" provided by the Fe auxiliary function serves to socialize the expression of these forms. I suppose it's the auxiliary nature of this Feeling, coupled with the balancing effect of {detachment from the internal idiosyncratic view of free-floating data perceptions} that makes ISFJs tentative, conservative, and reticent to boldly state the rights and wrongs in the relational world. (Loosely translated, ISFJs like to keep their perceptions to themselves, and aren't sure enough that what they "see" as Introverted Sensors has any relevance to the outside world. Thus the perception, based on unworldly data, may not be true. The obedient Extraverted Feeling function must therefore refrain from strong statements expressing these opinions.)
Introverted Thinking
Introverted Thinking is turned inward and is largely invisible. It is only with great difficulty, if at all, that the ISFJ could willingly commit anyone to their doom. Perhaps this explains why ISFJs are loyal to the end; there is no sense of purely objective (i.e., impersonal) judgement of anyone but themselves (and that only by their own standards). Here is this type's achilles heel that makes many of them so vulnerable to
Extraverted iNtuition
ISFJs are easily undone by Extraverted iNtuition, their inferior function. Believing in the fantastic, and disbelieving the technologically extant, are errors that my guide the gullible (or unfoundedly sceptical) ISFJ off a precipice of mis-conclusion. (One of our co-workers' mothers adamantly refused to believe that Dave Letterman's mom was actually at the olympics in Norway talking with the athletes and handing out hams! She suspected technological trickery.)
This childlike Ne is, however, the likely source (coupled with fun-loving Extraverted Feeling) of the practical joking, punning and (usually harmless) impishness of some ISFJs
NOTE: I could totally see myself in that David Letterman example.
Overall the description seems to be only an okay fit. Maybe I should consider other types?
Bolded: Very much fits
Italics: Somewhat fits
ISFJs are characterized above all by their desire to serve others and their "need to be needed." In extreme cases, this need is so strong that standard give-and-take relationships are deeply unsatisfying to them; however, most ISFJs find more than enough with which to occupy themselves within the framework of a normal life. (Since ISFJs, like all SJs, are very much bound by the prevailing social conventions, their form of "service" is likely to exclude any elements of moral or political controversy; they specialize in the local, the personal, and the practical.)
NOTE: I like feeling "needed" yet I don't really enjoy serving others that much. It feels like an imposition on my own free time.
ISFJs are often unappreciated, at work, home, and play. Ironically, because they prove over and over that they can be relied on for their loyalty and unstinting, high-quality work, those around them often take them for granted--even take advantage of them. Admittedly, the problem is sometimes aggravated by the ISFJs themselves; for instance, they are notoriously bad at delegating ("If you want it done right, do it yourself"). And although they're hurt by being treated like doormats, they are often unwilling to toot their own horns about their accomplishments because they feel that although they deserve more credit than they're getting, it's somehow wrong to want any sort of reward for doing work (which is supposed to be a virtue in itself). (And as low-profile Is, their actions don't call attention to themselves as with charismatic Es.) Because of all of this, ISFJs are often overworked, and as a result may suffer from psychosomatic illnesses.
In the workplace, ISFJs are methodical and accurate workers, often with very good memories and unexpected analytic abilities; they are also good with people in small-group or one-on-one situations because of their patient and genuinely sympathetic approach to dealing with others. ISFJs make pleasant and reliable co-workers and exemplary employees, but tend to be harried and uncomfortable in supervisory roles. They are capable of forming strong loyalties, but these are personal rather than institutional loyalties; if someone they've bonded with in this way leaves the company, the ISFJ will leave with them, if given the option. Traditional careers for an ISFJ include: teaching, social work, most religious work, nursing, medicine (general practice only), clerical and and secretarial work of any kind, and some kinds of administrative careers.
NOTE: I'm a librarian, which I think is fairly common among ISFJ.
While their work ethic is high on the ISFJ priority list, their families are the centers of their lives.
NOTE: While its true I love my family, I don't feel like family is the center of my life nor I am that interested in making it the center. I value my independence and my me time too much.
ISFJs are extremely warm and demonstrative within the family circle--and often possessive of their loved ones, as well. When these include Es who want to socialize with the rest of the world, or self-contained ITs, the ISFJ must learn to adjust to these behaviors and not interpret them as rejection. Being SJs, they place a strong emphasis on conventional behavior (although, unlike STJs, they are usually as concerned with being "nice" as with strict propriety); if any of their nearest and dearest depart from the straight-and-narrow, it causes the ISFJ major embarrassment: the closer the relationship and the more public the act, the more intense the embarrassment (a fact which many of their teenage children take gleeful advantage of). Over time, however, ISFJs usually mellow, and learn to regard the culprits as harmless eccentrics
. Needless to say, ISFJs take infinite trouble over meals, gifts, celebrations, etc., for their loved ones--although strong Js may tend to focus more on what the recipient should want rather than what they do want. Like most Is, ISFJs have a few, close friends. They are extremely loyal to these, and are ready to provide emotional and practical support at a moment's notice. (However, like most Fs they hate confrontation; if you get into a fight, don't expect them to jump in after you. You can count on them, however, run and get the nearest authority figure.)
NOTE: I hate conflict yet I won't put with injustice. I will confront in such situations.
Unlike with EPs, the older the friendship is, the more an ISFJ will value it. One ISFJ trait that is easily misunderstood by those who haven't known them long is that they are often unable to either hide or articulate any distress they may be feeling. For instance, an ISFJ child may be reproved for "sulking," the actual cause of which is a combination of physical illness plus misguided "good manners." An adult ISFJ may drive a (later ashamed) friend or SO into a fit of temper over the ISFJ's unexplained moodiness, only afterwards to explain about a death in the family they "didn't want to burden anyone with." Those close to ISFJs should learn to watch for the warning signs in these situations and take the initiative themselves to uncover the problem.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Functional Analysis
by Joe Butt
Introverted Sensing
As for ISTJs, the dominant Si is oriented toward the world of forms, essences, generics. Again, "for both of the IS_J types, the sense of propriety comes from the clear definition of these internal forms. ... A 'proper' chair has four legs," etc. (Jung saw IS as something of an oxymoron: sensing, which is a perceiving function, focused inward and thus away from that which is perceived (the "object"). In this light, he described this sensing as something removed from reality, full of archetypes/mythical figures/hobgoblins; sensing of one's own set of forms.)
NOTE: Description is kinda vague here. Hard to tell how well I relate to it but I definitely relate to the chair example.
Extraverted Feeling
A kind of "regression toward the mean" provided by the Fe auxiliary function serves to socialize the expression of these forms. I suppose it's the auxiliary nature of this Feeling, coupled with the balancing effect of {detachment from the internal idiosyncratic view of free-floating data perceptions} that makes ISFJs tentative, conservative, and reticent to boldly state the rights and wrongs in the relational world. (Loosely translated, ISFJs like to keep their perceptions to themselves, and aren't sure enough that what they "see" as Introverted Sensors has any relevance to the outside world. Thus the perception, based on unworldly data, may not be true. The obedient Extraverted Feeling function must therefore refrain from strong statements expressing these opinions.)
Introverted Thinking
Introverted Thinking is turned inward and is largely invisible. It is only with great difficulty, if at all, that the ISFJ could willingly commit anyone to their doom. Perhaps this explains why ISFJs are loyal to the end; there is no sense of purely objective (i.e., impersonal) judgement of anyone but themselves (and that only by their own standards). Here is this type's achilles heel that makes many of them so vulnerable to
Extraverted iNtuition
ISFJs are easily undone by Extraverted iNtuition, their inferior function. Believing in the fantastic, and disbelieving the technologically extant, are errors that my guide the gullible (or unfoundedly sceptical) ISFJ off a precipice of mis-conclusion. (One of our co-workers' mothers adamantly refused to believe that Dave Letterman's mom was actually at the olympics in Norway talking with the athletes and handing out hams! She suspected technological trickery.)
This childlike Ne is, however, the likely source (coupled with fun-loving Extraverted Feeling) of the practical joking, punning and (usually harmless) impishness of some ISFJs
NOTE: I could totally see myself in that David Letterman example.
Overall the description seems to be only an okay fit. Maybe I should consider other types?
KDude
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Just to add to my last comment (if you can call it that..), I wouldn't know the first thing about you really, but it is surprising that you would avoid considering INFP merely because of stereotypes (personally I think they're funny and slightly accurate, but that's beside the point). You fully admit that you're aware that they're stereotypes, yet still wouldn't consider INFP because of that. I see Fe playing out in that - like you prefer to abide by some other method of external judgement, even over your own reasoning that stereotypes are inaccurate. This is something I couldn't see ITPs do. Some barely register things on that angle - enough to the point that some may get nagged on it in their lives. IFJ definitely seems closer now.
Athenian200
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Does anyone REALLY think SuchIrony could still be a T? At this point, I don't. All the talk about what type she "wants" to be has me convinced. There are certain types I don't want to be, either... but I can't imagine a T having that kind of attitude. Not this blatantly, anyway.
Eric B
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I think those descriptions are compatible with a Supine INTP, and especially a female. (and don't forget the ever so "inflatable" tertiary).
I "wanted' to be an INTP also, with even a pair of so-called "experts" trying to make me ENFP, even down to using that very "want" as the ultimate proof of F (but, "Fi", though, which is defined in their system as "valuing", while Fe is solely about "considering others").
But "wanting", as well as "valuing", and "emotion" are properties of the ego. I have lately been emphasizing something I have finally grasped, and that is that differentiated functional preference is determined by how the functions play out in our emotions. So someone who values emotions for their own sake will likely be a Feeler. This will make them more focused on personal interests. Thinkers value things as well, but feel more in control of their emotions when dealing in impersonal logic.
The reason I "wanted" to be an INTP, was a totally "technical" reason: because it seemed to fit my ICA temperament from the correlation that was coming together in my studies. (INP=Supine in Inclusion; NT=Choleric in Control). ENFP would completely screw that up.
The people on the site where I was before were even complaining I was too "impersonal" with the theories; "toying" with them for their own sake, rather than self-disclosure or self-growth. That should have been the biggest clue right there. (But they tried to make this tertiary "Te", but come on; that will only go but so far!)
And then, just the notion of Ti seemed to be something that resonated more (even if I didn't feel as "detached" as many descriptions emphasize), where I didn't want to be an introverted Feeler, because to me, a "personal ethics system" was a very big vulnerability. All people will do is trample over one's personal values.
And the Joe Butt profile was one of the ones that clicked for me and made me recognize myself in the INTP type.
I too kept bringing up the topic, comparing profiles and such (even when I first arrived here), until I finally verified it myself by gaining enough understanding of the concepts.
Again, the 'experts' and their fans kept using this as "proof" of "Fi valuing", but it actually betrays my ego's conscious sense of "I vs not I". What I identify with resonates, (even if I feel not so good at it, based on descriptions that are themselves often overgeneralized or even stereotyped a lot of times). It's precisely this that shows Feeling is inferior, vulnerable, unwanted by the ego, especially in the obviously preferred "P" (Ji) attitude; not a confident, preferred function. (And we saw pretty much a similar sentiment by you in one of the videos). It was Feeling that often erupted unconsciously, and often derailed my aims. As I was grappling with this, it seemed for awhile to confirm my worst fear of being a Feeler, but lo and behold, as I finally learned more about this stuff, it became my ultimate proof of a Ti preference. Now, it seems ludicrous that I ever worried I might be a Feeler.
This is what gives the best evidence for true T vs F preference.
I "wanted' to be an INTP also, with even a pair of so-called "experts" trying to make me ENFP, even down to using that very "want" as the ultimate proof of F (but, "Fi", though, which is defined in their system as "valuing", while Fe is solely about "considering others").
But "wanting", as well as "valuing", and "emotion" are properties of the ego. I have lately been emphasizing something I have finally grasped, and that is that differentiated functional preference is determined by how the functions play out in our emotions. So someone who values emotions for their own sake will likely be a Feeler. This will make them more focused on personal interests. Thinkers value things as well, but feel more in control of their emotions when dealing in impersonal logic.
The reason I "wanted" to be an INTP, was a totally "technical" reason: because it seemed to fit my ICA temperament from the correlation that was coming together in my studies. (INP=Supine in Inclusion; NT=Choleric in Control). ENFP would completely screw that up.
The people on the site where I was before were even complaining I was too "impersonal" with the theories; "toying" with them for their own sake, rather than self-disclosure or self-growth. That should have been the biggest clue right there. (But they tried to make this tertiary "Te", but come on; that will only go but so far!)
And then, just the notion of Ti seemed to be something that resonated more (even if I didn't feel as "detached" as many descriptions emphasize), where I didn't want to be an introverted Feeler, because to me, a "personal ethics system" was a very big vulnerability. All people will do is trample over one's personal values.
And the Joe Butt profile was one of the ones that clicked for me and made me recognize myself in the INTP type.
I too kept bringing up the topic, comparing profiles and such (even when I first arrived here), until I finally verified it myself by gaining enough understanding of the concepts.
Again, the 'experts' and their fans kept using this as "proof" of "Fi valuing", but it actually betrays my ego's conscious sense of "I vs not I". What I identify with resonates, (even if I feel not so good at it, based on descriptions that are themselves often overgeneralized or even stereotyped a lot of times). It's precisely this that shows Feeling is inferior, vulnerable, unwanted by the ego, especially in the obviously preferred "P" (Ji) attitude; not a confident, preferred function. (And we saw pretty much a similar sentiment by you in one of the videos). It was Feeling that often erupted unconsciously, and often derailed my aims. As I was grappling with this, it seemed for awhile to confirm my worst fear of being a Feeler, but lo and behold, as I finally learned more about this stuff, it became my ultimate proof of a Ti preference. Now, it seems ludicrous that I ever worried I might be a Feeler.
This is what gives the best evidence for true T vs F preference.
burymecloser
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I've been leaning slightly toward INTP, but I'm just not sure you strike me as a Ti-dom. Almost everything you bolded in the ISFJ description seems related to Si (or to general introversion). What would you think of ISFJ with weak Fe and good Ne? ISfJ, maybe?
I think Si dom with strong tert Ti rings a little more true than the reverse. Alternatively, you could type like Jennifer -- whom each of you identified as similar in the Most similar/dissimilar members within your type thread -- and go with INtP. Actually, that might fit best: accounts for a less-dominant Ti, with aux Ne, a strong tertiary Si, and inferior Fe.
Final answer: INtP.
I think Si dom with strong tert Ti rings a little more true than the reverse. Alternatively, you could type like Jennifer -- whom each of you identified as similar in the Most similar/dissimilar members within your type thread -- and go with INtP. Actually, that might fit best: accounts for a less-dominant Ti, with aux Ne, a strong tertiary Si, and inferior Fe.
Final answer: INtP.
Such Irony
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That's not why I didn't consider INFP. Its true that if I had a choice, I wouldn't choose to be INFP. Actually, there are some things in the INFP profile that I relate to, both good and bad. Its just that I think other type profiles are a better fit. I don't really want to be an ISFJ either but it hasn't stopped me from seriously considering that as a type possibility.
I think F's are more likely to blatantly have the attitude that some types are somehow "good" and "desirable" and other types are somehow "bad" or "undesirable." However, I've seen this attitude in T's as well. I've been on other type related forums where NTs have expressed their vehement dislike for SJ types for example. Are some of these NTs mistyped? Probably but I don't think all of them are.
I sorta relate to what you're saying here.
I'm leaning slightly towards INtP as my own self-typing at this moment. I'm still not ready to 'confirm' it by putting it in my sig. I suppose comparing the INTP and ISFJ profiles, INTP does fit a little bit more but it is a pretty close call. It's true that I'm more SFJ like than most INTPs. The inverse is also true. If I'm ISFJ, I'm more NTP like. Perhaps I should just declare my type as Ti/Si. That would resolve some ambiguities around the issue.
My mother is likely an ISFJ and in my upbringing, ISFJ behaviors were more encouraged than INTP ones. That's another point to consider.
I also examined how I was like in childhood in this post: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43965&p=1484921&viewfull=1#post1484921
In some ways I was rather J like in my stubborness and rigidity. I also cared more about wanting to have friends and the like than most INTPs likely would have but overall I think it comes closer to INTP than ISFJ. See what you think. Aspergers also clouds the issue. I suppose its possible I was really an F but Aspergers made me rather tactless and insensitive to others' feelings as a cihld.
Totenkindly
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Meh. You lost me at INFJ. Look and feel is all wrong, despite some cosmetic similarities.
I don't know any ISFJs who really want to be ISFJ based on the generic MBTI descriptions given of them, because they DO make ISFJ look boring, and they're offended by that.
The strong ISFJs I know are not doormats, although they can struggle with feeling that way. Typically, they passionately care about the people they love -- usually family and those close friends who they have the time to dedicate themselves to. They can dote on that small select group and find great life fulfillment in meeting needs in that group; their loved ones' happiness is theirs. They are diligent and loyal and struggle through adversity for those they love. They take their tasks seriously to the point of making sure everything is done, on time, to a high level of excellence. They can feel awkward when they don't know how to do something, and can easily get down on themselves for failing to perform a duty to the highest level of their ability. I'm amazed at their tenacity and ability to reach goals through sheer commitment and perseverence that I did not ever think logically/intuitively was likely to succeed in the first place.
I don't know about you, but I don't find that boring. I think that actualized ISFJs are pretty amazing.
Eric B
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Once again, you sound so much like me. (Except for the high school part, where my grades basically stayed mediocre as it was hard to focus on anything but my interests).
Again, this screams Ti dominance, (as the first developing function, and the ego's main world view), and is anything but F. F's, and especially SFJ's are more "cooperative", and less stubborn and interested in "projects" and such.
I don't think even dom. Si would be quite like that. It's clearly a strong, internal impersonal judgment system going on.
The stubbornness and wanting to know why is also a sign of the Choleric,and as you grow up, you realize if you want your Inclusions needs met better, you have to tone the Control behavior down. (Also paralleling the development of inferior Fe).
(I also used to wear the lowercase t!)
Such Irony
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I really like your above ISFJ description. I wouldn't mind being an ISFJ after reading that. How about replacing most of the ISFJ descriptions out there with something on the lines of this? What do you all say?
I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably not an ISFJ though. I think alot of my confusion stemmed from several factors. I have a well-developed tertiary Si and as I've gotten older I've had better access and more interest in Fe. Growing up around an ISFJ mother probably helped me develop some of the attributes more commonly associated with ISFJs. Some of the more INTP typical behavior in my childhood was looked down upon or not understood so I learned to compensate with more socially acceptable behaviors. Also, I think by nature I'm somewhat more J and F like than an average INTP. Each type has variation within it and I've come to realize that INTP is likely the best overall fit even if it doesn't fit perfectly.
Thanks for all your feedback EricB as well as everyone else who contributed to this and related threads. You've cleared up some confusion I had. I think in some ways your type is most 'pure' in childhood. You act out of your natural inclinations more both for better and for worse. In childhood I think its pretty clear I was more INTP like than ISFJ like or any other of the 14 types.
So back to INTP, but with a little t.
I know some people are going to disagree but that's just tough. No matter what type I declare myself to be, there is not going to be universal agreement.
entropie
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Not wanting to be a certain type does sound very Ti-like to me. I wouldnt want to be anything I didnt like.
It will be hard for you to find out on this online forum what type you really want to be like, if I make threads like these I get a lot of types from estp, to enfj, it's kinda like that that peoples perceptions are always different and many will see you just differently. This will be the same in real life.
It's near impossible to pinpoint your type down really exactly, I even think it's impossible to be one type only for real. It's good that you discuss things here but you'll need to make a decision for yourself some place on the way.
It will be hard for you to find out on this online forum what type you really want to be like, if I make threads like these I get a lot of types from estp, to enfj, it's kinda like that that peoples perceptions are always different and many will see you just differently. This will be the same in real life.
It's near impossible to pinpoint your type down really exactly, I even think it's impossible to be one type only for real. It's good that you discuss things here but you'll need to make a decision for yourself some place on the way.
Such Irony
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Maybe it isn't really even type related. Who wants to be something they don't like? Sounds like most people think this from time to time.
It doesn't even have to be a type necessarily. There are attributes I would not want to have that aren't type related at all. I don't want to be a retard or a sociopath for example.
Honestly, there are times where I really don't want to be an INTP either.
entropie
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If its of any use to you: I have seen especially ntp's on this forum often having a deep questioning nature of self. I include myself in this. It's as if you are looking for the perfect answer, the psychological equation that says 1+1 = intp but it just doesnt work with psych topics. There is no clear definition of type and every new time you think about it you resemble another strength in you and you think if you couldnt be a different type. For Ne-doms this can be become really worse, here it means: if you can imagine it, it does exist. And that means you can really heavily talk yourself into being a type tho you are a completly different.
I have at some point given up to think about whether I am entj or entp. Everytime I do the mbti test, I score entj, yet measured against the sum of my whackiness I cant really believe that. I have just tho given up at some point to think about it, because my investigation had reached an end and I knew maybe if I go on like this 10 more years, I'll find the answer; but for what price ?! The positive side of all this is by thinking so much about myself, I've fundamentally learnt a lot about myself, yet a clear mbti type for me evades my grasp; it's only like that: it's the most probable i am entp.
I can feel your thoughts, worries and doubts on that topic and I am strongly convinced you have the Ti/Fe/Ne/Si combo in you. I can perfectly imagine you being intp. I can not really help you to give you the final answer on that quest, I just wanted to eleviate the burden a bit that it can be to think about this mbti type. Psychology is frustrating and far away from a clear and shiny mathematical equation. In thermodynamics you say there is a measurement of a state and the measurement of a process. Work for example is the measurement of a process. The same it is with personality and type, it is a dynamic model, a process and it changes over the time, only a differential equation could measure it.
Never give up thinking about yourself, but dont forget to celebrate the results either. Tho you may not have a clear type in your hands in the end of which result you could be 100% convinced of, you'll find out alot about yourself in the process of mthinking about yourself. And never forget to celebrate these victories
I have at some point given up to think about whether I am entj or entp. Everytime I do the mbti test, I score entj, yet measured against the sum of my whackiness I cant really believe that. I have just tho given up at some point to think about it, because my investigation had reached an end and I knew maybe if I go on like this 10 more years, I'll find the answer; but for what price ?! The positive side of all this is by thinking so much about myself, I've fundamentally learnt a lot about myself, yet a clear mbti type for me evades my grasp; it's only like that: it's the most probable i am entp.
I can feel your thoughts, worries and doubts on that topic and I am strongly convinced you have the Ti/Fe/Ne/Si combo in you. I can perfectly imagine you being intp. I can not really help you to give you the final answer on that quest, I just wanted to eleviate the burden a bit that it can be to think about this mbti type. Psychology is frustrating and far away from a clear and shiny mathematical equation. In thermodynamics you say there is a measurement of a state and the measurement of a process. Work for example is the measurement of a process. The same it is with personality and type, it is a dynamic model, a process and it changes over the time, only a differential equation could measure it.
Never give up thinking about yourself, but dont forget to celebrate the results either. Tho you may not have a clear type in your hands in the end of which result you could be 100% convinced of, you'll find out alot about yourself in the process of mthinking about yourself. And never forget to celebrate these victories
Such Irony
Honor Thy Inferior
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Okay, I'm reviving this thread because once again I'm unsure.
I read the Jungian Cognitive Function descriptions over on the main page of the Personality Nation forum and I truly can't decide if ISFJ or INTP fits better. They are both eerily accurate for me. I'm probably experiencing a Ti/Si loop with a weak auxilary function.
So I want your honest opinion here.
I'm actually leaning very slightly towards ISFJ this second, albeit an atypical one.
I read the Jungian Cognitive Function descriptions over on the main page of the Personality Nation forum and I truly can't decide if ISFJ or INTP fits better. They are both eerily accurate for me. I'm probably experiencing a Ti/Si loop with a weak auxilary function.
So I want your honest opinion here.
I'm actually leaning very slightly towards ISFJ this second, albeit an atypical one.
The_World_As_Will
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may I introduce you to this thread, I was confused over ENTP or INTP, and that helped me solve the problem, essentially the theory called 'point of least resistance', shows the tertiary-opposition will indicate your type, The ISFJ's tertiary function is Introverted Thinking, so the opposite of that function is Extraverted Thinking, do you lack Te? as oppose to lacking Extraverted Sensation (for INTP?). It's a really interesting way to figure it all out, or atleast it helped me. Browse through the thread, and personally, I think you are experiencing the Ti-Si loop, are you really nostalgic about things?. Also, you should read this really awesome INTP profile if you haven't already.
Such Irony
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INTP would have tertiary opposite as Se; ISFJ would have Te. Overall, I'd have to say Se has been more problematic in my life than Te has been. So that suggests INTP. I also related to so much of Paul James INTP profile that it's scary.
So why question INTP? Well I've been doing some thinking and here are a bunch of other things about me that I don't think I already mentioned in this thread. If I already mentioned it, then I apologize.
Yes, this is going to be a big information dump but the more data, the better the likelihood of accurate typing.
I find that I rely heavily on past experience and what I already know to guide me through situations. The first thing I always ask myself is how does this relate to what I already know and have experienced? I am capable of navigating new situations if I can see some relationship between this situation and a past one but if it’s totally new with no previous experience or knowledge base to draw upon, I’m totally lost and tend to panic. So is this indicative of Si (dominant for ISFJ)? I think it is but then again, doesn’t everybody do/think this to some extent?
I know that I tend to notice when something has changed from how it was in the past. I can be exhaustively thorough on things, making sure nothing is left out. I’m always spotting certain details like typos and smudges on paper. Yet in other ways I’m not so detail oriented. I don’t always have the best spatial awareness of objects. When navigating a new workplace, I’m not naturally good at paying attention to where all the objects in the room are located, especially if I rarely use them. Sometimes I actually have to take notes on where to find certain things, especially if there isn’t much logic to where its placed and the location seems rather arbitrary. I think my Si is stronger than my Se by far. I’m good at selectively paying attention to certain details that are of personal interest or importance to me but if the details don’t pertain to me, I often overlook them.
I’m not sure I’m as strongly intuitive as the tests make me out to be. Sure I value imagination and out of the box thinking and insights and original thought and questioning convention. But just because you value something doesn’t mean it’s a strong suit of yours. When I really think about it, I don’t think I’m by nature all that inventive or original in my thinking. I think I’m naturally better at taking some tried and true idea or process and maybe tweaking it a bit, seeing where the flaws are and improving upon that rather than inventing something totally new. I think I admire the way intuitives think and I envy some of the original ideas that they can come up with because I know that I probably wouldn’t have thought of that in a million years. I remember back in school when we had creative writing and art assignments that emphasized originality and how much of a strain on my brain it was to produce something original. What I basically ended up doing was taking a familiar situation and slightly changing a few variables. I think sometimes I answer questions on tests based on what I value more personally and that’s why usually test as N. I hate thinking myself as not being very original in my thinking. I want to be thought of as an interesting person. If you’re overly conventional in thinking, how interesting is that? Maybe I’m interesting in other respects. Originality isn’t everything. Practicality has some value. The world also needs followers of the new ideas created.
Yet on the other hand, I’m extremely introspective and capable of deep thinking and going what’s beyond the surface. I can be rather absent minded and not always fully in the moment. I think a lot about the future and like creating my own theories for the phenomena around me.
I also think I tend to score as N because the tests are flawed and make N sound more intelligent than S, as if they are capable of higher level thinking and S types are not. It’s true that I’ve always scored high on IQ tests.
Another reason for doubting my N stems back from my childhood. I’m good at abstract thinking and making inferences now but not so much in my childhood. I remember struggling in reading class when we were asked questions regarding the underlying motives of peoples’ behavior. I expected everything to be explicitly stated in the text and was virtually incapable of correctly answering the more inferential questions. It wasn’t until I was about 12 that my ability to think more abstractly and make inferences started to kick in. Yet I learned to read earlier than average and had a large vocabulary.
As a child, so much of the description for Aspergers syndrome fit me. I think that confuses things because I could really be an ISFJ with weaker Fe as a result of Aspergers, causing me to come across as more INTP like. People with Aspergers also tend to take things overly literal, which was definitely a problem as a child and still to some extent today. As a kid, I didn’t understand the concept of sarcasm and just assumed that people always meant what they said.
In some ways I think personality is the most pure as a kid, before external influences kick in and someone is pressured to act counter to preference. In some ways I was INTP like but in many ways I wasn’t. Like INTPs, I loved learning and I loved creating systems, especially classification systems. I collected things pertaining to my area of interest, although this could have also been attributed to Si. I also hated to do things just because “I said so†and could be awfully stubborn. I tended to have obsessive interests and I could go on and on about a subject and wanted to know everything about it. Yet, this could be just part of the Aspergers.
It was my SJ qualities that set me apart from other INTPs. Reading the INTP forums, I can see how I’m different from other INTPs in many respects. I was the student who wanted to do my assignments according to the guidelines and finish them in on time. I cared about getting gold stars from the teachers (something that doesn’t mean anything to NTs according to Keirsey). I had a stronger need to please others and fit in. Yet I didn’t fit in much in school- largely because of my Asperger traits, I think. Yet I wasn’t as schedule oriented as some of the other SJ children were and procrastinated a lot on homework yet always made the deadline. It was true I’d do my assignments according to expectations but I sure didn’t hesitate to complain about those expectations. I guess when it comes to it, I feel to compliant to be an INTP and too questioning of how things are done to be ISFJ.
Another factor that confuses things is my mother's influence. My parents, especially my mother didn't know what to make of me. My mom is an ISFJ and I think that had alot of influence as to my upbringing. If I was an INTP, then I think that my INTPness wasn't all that encouraged. I raised to be the sort of person to not make waves and to do your duty. Don't question authority- all rules are there for a good reason. You're not as good as you think you are, Don't be a show off. Don't be selfish. Always be polite. Safety first. You should have talked to me first. Put others' needs ahead of your own. Whether explictly stated or not, those were the sorts of messages that got pounded into my brain over and over again.
I know my mom just wanted the best for me and wanted me to be happy and I love her dearly, yet some of the programming I've received from her has been harmful and I've had to unlearn some of it. This is especially true of the not questioning authority part. Authority is not always right and some people to abuse their power. If people didn’t question authority, it would be hard to make true progress.
Such Irony
Honor Thy Inferior
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That pesky Fe!
Another factor that complicates the issue is that by nature I am a highly sensitive and emotional person. This puts me at odds sometimes with INTP. Like N, I sometimes think I answer T on tests because I am highly intelligent and do think and analyze things a lot.
I also admit that for some questions I answer how I’d like to be. I know that emotionally I’m rather vulnerable and thin skinned and I’ve love to be more detached and have things not get to me so much. I’m overly sensitive to how others perceive me and I’m very self-conscious. I want everyone to like me and it bothers me when someone doesn’t, even if I hardly know the person. I really get hurt when people can’t accept me for the person I am. Most INTPs, are far more tough and thick skinned than I am.
I could very well be a feeling type who was encouraged to use T more. I remember as a child getting emotional over the dumbest things and my parents telling me to not cry, to not get so emotional. I remember as a child having poor emotional self-control. I'm not sure if this is due to being an F type or not. It could be inferior Fe or Aspergers.
I have a strong need for harmony and I’m very sensitive to emotional vibes that others give off. I’m not the best at reading the precise nuances of body languages but I can instantly tell if someone is giving off a pleasant or an unpleasant vibe and its very difficult for me to ignore that impression. I have a very difficult time being comfortable around people who give off any sort of vibe that hints at being angry or displeased.
I have strong opinions as far as how people should interact with other to facilitate harmonious interactions free from strife. I expect people to be polite to each other and respect others’ differences. I don’t handle conflict well and it can literally make me sick. I have a hard time relating to those who keep putting their foot in their mouth and don’t realize how hurtful their words can be.
I have a strong need to please others and because I want harmonious interaction, I often put others’ needs ahead of my own. I think this is a hallmark ISFJ trait. Sometimes when I hear their problems, mine are minimal by comparision. I also sometimes feel like if I don’t help them, then who will and if I don’t help them, then I could get blamed for their misery, which would make me very uncomfortable.
In my social interactions, I often let others take the lead as to what to do. For example, if we are deciding what game to play, I usually say something like it doesn’t matter to me. And truthfully, it usually doesn’t. I’m there more for the interaction itself. Some people in the group though are very adamant about wanting or not wanting to play certain games. Even if the game isn’t a favorite of mine, I’m usually silent and go along with what other people want. I didn’t always used to be this way though. As a kid, I was rather insistent on having my way and pissed people off. My mother drilled into my brain that I was being too selfish and now I feel like the pendulum has swung the opposite way.
I will take the lead though, if others are reluctant to do so and can actually be quite an effective leader. Yet I have a hard time pushing my ideas on others. I’m very sensitive to having my own ideas rejected and often don’t put them out there as much as I should. For example, I might suggest a game we could play but if no one seems interested I won’t likely ask again and may feel hurt that my idea was rejected even though I know its nothing against me personally.
It’s take time for me to realize just how strongly a role Fe has played in my life. Even though function tests don’t always show it, I think I do have a strong Fe. I think because I am introverted, I don’t always facilitate much social interactions, which I think brings down the score somewhat. So I could very well have an auxiliary Fe function. Yet what makes me doubt this is that I identify with inferior Fe descriptions more than inferior Ne ones. ISFJ just seems better than me at navigating gracefully through all the different types of social interactions. They seem better than me at smoothing things over, whereas for me, it seems more awkward. Also, I certainly wasn’t very adept in Fe as a child and made a lot of social faux pas when young. I doubt ISFJ because they seem to get more joy in life from Fe whereas for me it feels more like a force that has to be reckoned with.
Also, I have a very hard time letting go of past hurts and injustices. I forgive but I never forget. It’s easy for me when I’m sad to just think about all the past hurts I’ve experienced in excruciating detail. I wish I had thicker skin. It sucks being so sensitive. One time I even cried over how sensitive I was. Talk about a catch-22. I actually think this part may be Fi related, which is why I also identify somewhat with INFP. I know a lot of INFPs who struggle with this sort of thing.
Another thing is that I learned to suppress my feelings alot. If I said I was hurt by something, I was led to believe that I shouldn't have been hurt, that I was being overly touchy. Throughout life there have been times where I've been hurt and let it go and maybe I shouldn't have because I do have some past hurts stewing inside of me and now its too late in some cases to confront others about it. Now when I've been hurt, I do try to confront others more about it and let them know. If I don't, they could hurt me again.
One thing I've noticed though, that makes me doubt that I'm an Fe user is that sometimes I'll find that my own feelings (Fi) take precedence over what's socially appropriate. For example, I might be hurt about something, and when I finally confront someone about it, at that point, I'm angry and I'm too wrapped up in my own feelings to care so much about yours. Sometimes the way I handle such situations, isn't always the most socially appropriate. It seems like those who truly have strong Fe can confront others more gracefully, in a way that's more respectful of the people who have hurt them. If someone's been unkind to me, it's very difficult for me to want to be kind back. My instinct is to either avoid the person entirely or to let them know in no uncertain terms that they have crossed the line and it won't be tolerated. There isn't much middle ground. Obviously this approach doesn't work well in customer service!
Another factor that complicates the issue is that by nature I am a highly sensitive and emotional person. This puts me at odds sometimes with INTP. Like N, I sometimes think I answer T on tests because I am highly intelligent and do think and analyze things a lot.
I also admit that for some questions I answer how I’d like to be. I know that emotionally I’m rather vulnerable and thin skinned and I’ve love to be more detached and have things not get to me so much. I’m overly sensitive to how others perceive me and I’m very self-conscious. I want everyone to like me and it bothers me when someone doesn’t, even if I hardly know the person. I really get hurt when people can’t accept me for the person I am. Most INTPs, are far more tough and thick skinned than I am.
I could very well be a feeling type who was encouraged to use T more. I remember as a child getting emotional over the dumbest things and my parents telling me to not cry, to not get so emotional. I remember as a child having poor emotional self-control. I'm not sure if this is due to being an F type or not. It could be inferior Fe or Aspergers.
I have a strong need for harmony and I’m very sensitive to emotional vibes that others give off. I’m not the best at reading the precise nuances of body languages but I can instantly tell if someone is giving off a pleasant or an unpleasant vibe and its very difficult for me to ignore that impression. I have a very difficult time being comfortable around people who give off any sort of vibe that hints at being angry or displeased.
I have strong opinions as far as how people should interact with other to facilitate harmonious interactions free from strife. I expect people to be polite to each other and respect others’ differences. I don’t handle conflict well and it can literally make me sick. I have a hard time relating to those who keep putting their foot in their mouth and don’t realize how hurtful their words can be.
I have a strong need to please others and because I want harmonious interaction, I often put others’ needs ahead of my own. I think this is a hallmark ISFJ trait. Sometimes when I hear their problems, mine are minimal by comparision. I also sometimes feel like if I don’t help them, then who will and if I don’t help them, then I could get blamed for their misery, which would make me very uncomfortable.
In my social interactions, I often let others take the lead as to what to do. For example, if we are deciding what game to play, I usually say something like it doesn’t matter to me. And truthfully, it usually doesn’t. I’m there more for the interaction itself. Some people in the group though are very adamant about wanting or not wanting to play certain games. Even if the game isn’t a favorite of mine, I’m usually silent and go along with what other people want. I didn’t always used to be this way though. As a kid, I was rather insistent on having my way and pissed people off. My mother drilled into my brain that I was being too selfish and now I feel like the pendulum has swung the opposite way.
I will take the lead though, if others are reluctant to do so and can actually be quite an effective leader. Yet I have a hard time pushing my ideas on others. I’m very sensitive to having my own ideas rejected and often don’t put them out there as much as I should. For example, I might suggest a game we could play but if no one seems interested I won’t likely ask again and may feel hurt that my idea was rejected even though I know its nothing against me personally.
It’s take time for me to realize just how strongly a role Fe has played in my life. Even though function tests don’t always show it, I think I do have a strong Fe. I think because I am introverted, I don’t always facilitate much social interactions, which I think brings down the score somewhat. So I could very well have an auxiliary Fe function. Yet what makes me doubt this is that I identify with inferior Fe descriptions more than inferior Ne ones. ISFJ just seems better than me at navigating gracefully through all the different types of social interactions. They seem better than me at smoothing things over, whereas for me, it seems more awkward. Also, I certainly wasn’t very adept in Fe as a child and made a lot of social faux pas when young. I doubt ISFJ because they seem to get more joy in life from Fe whereas for me it feels more like a force that has to be reckoned with.
Also, I have a very hard time letting go of past hurts and injustices. I forgive but I never forget. It’s easy for me when I’m sad to just think about all the past hurts I’ve experienced in excruciating detail. I wish I had thicker skin. It sucks being so sensitive. One time I even cried over how sensitive I was. Talk about a catch-22. I actually think this part may be Fi related, which is why I also identify somewhat with INFP. I know a lot of INFPs who struggle with this sort of thing.
Another thing is that I learned to suppress my feelings alot. If I said I was hurt by something, I was led to believe that I shouldn't have been hurt, that I was being overly touchy. Throughout life there have been times where I've been hurt and let it go and maybe I shouldn't have because I do have some past hurts stewing inside of me and now its too late in some cases to confront others about it. Now when I've been hurt, I do try to confront others more about it and let them know. If I don't, they could hurt me again.
One thing I've noticed though, that makes me doubt that I'm an Fe user is that sometimes I'll find that my own feelings (Fi) take precedence over what's socially appropriate. For example, I might be hurt about something, and when I finally confront someone about it, at that point, I'm angry and I'm too wrapped up in my own feelings to care so much about yours. Sometimes the way I handle such situations, isn't always the most socially appropriate. It seems like those who truly have strong Fe can confront others more gracefully, in a way that's more respectful of the people who have hurt them. If someone's been unkind to me, it's very difficult for me to want to be kind back. My instinct is to either avoid the person entirely or to let them know in no uncertain terms that they have crossed the line and it won't be tolerated. There isn't much middle ground. Obviously this approach doesn't work well in customer service!
Such Irony
Honor Thy Inferior
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Final thoughts
Another thing, is that I need a moderate degree of structure when doing tasks. I hated those open-ended assignments where the teacher would say "write whatever you feel like." I don't want to be micromanaged but I do like having some clear expectations for what is considered excellent vs. merely passable. I hated turning in an assignment I thought was good and then unexpectedly finding that I overlooked something that I didn't know I needed because the teacher didn't make it explicit.
I struggle with J/P in general. On tests I'll actually tend to score slightly in favor of J more of the time but I wonder if I'm just wanting to see myself as J in some circumstances. I like seeing myself as an organized and productive individual. I'm very organized with my belongings yet not so good with my time. It's very easy for me to waste a good part of the day on Internet forums. When I plan what I want to do for the day, I almost always list more things than can realistically get done. I will manage to make the deadlines on the essential things though. I hate the thought of having unfinished projects and feel good about having things settled and a difficult decision finally off my chest.
Finally, I’m more open to new ideas and experiences than most ISFJs tend to be. I’m more curious, more willing to try new approaches, and less bogged down in tradition. When moving to a new city, I’m excited by all the possibilities it will bring moreso than complaining about the things I’ll have to give up. I trust my ability to adapt to the situation. Yet occasionally I find myself catastrophizing as described by inferior Ne but compared to my ISFJ mother, she does that a lot more. So I have doubts about inferior Ne.
One last thought:
I had mentioned previously about how the ISFJ descriptions weren't very good and how I did not want to be an ISFJ. Well I still don't think the ISFJ descriptions are very good (Basically the non-Jung ones) but if it turns out that I'm actually an ISFJ, that is now cool by me. Descriptions are just descriptions and there is alot of variation within a type. There are some really awesome ISFJs on this forum and on the ISFJ subforum over on Personality Cafe.
Yes, ISFJ is a type that goes largely unappreciated in the type community. It isn't just ISFJs, its S types in general, especially SJs. I think better descriptions should be written by people who are actually ISFJs. The same goes for the other three SJ types as well as the SPs. SJs tend to be misportrayed as boring people who are uncreative with a sheep mentality. I think its largely why so many S types mistype as N and I think it's partly why alot more N's become interested in MBTI. An N type takes a test and they read an insightful profile that makes them special and unique. An SJ type, not so much.
Another thing, is that I need a moderate degree of structure when doing tasks. I hated those open-ended assignments where the teacher would say "write whatever you feel like." I don't want to be micromanaged but I do like having some clear expectations for what is considered excellent vs. merely passable. I hated turning in an assignment I thought was good and then unexpectedly finding that I overlooked something that I didn't know I needed because the teacher didn't make it explicit.
I struggle with J/P in general. On tests I'll actually tend to score slightly in favor of J more of the time but I wonder if I'm just wanting to see myself as J in some circumstances. I like seeing myself as an organized and productive individual. I'm very organized with my belongings yet not so good with my time. It's very easy for me to waste a good part of the day on Internet forums. When I plan what I want to do for the day, I almost always list more things than can realistically get done. I will manage to make the deadlines on the essential things though. I hate the thought of having unfinished projects and feel good about having things settled and a difficult decision finally off my chest.
Finally, I’m more open to new ideas and experiences than most ISFJs tend to be. I’m more curious, more willing to try new approaches, and less bogged down in tradition. When moving to a new city, I’m excited by all the possibilities it will bring moreso than complaining about the things I’ll have to give up. I trust my ability to adapt to the situation. Yet occasionally I find myself catastrophizing as described by inferior Ne but compared to my ISFJ mother, she does that a lot more. So I have doubts about inferior Ne.
One last thought:
I had mentioned previously about how the ISFJ descriptions weren't very good and how I did not want to be an ISFJ. Well I still don't think the ISFJ descriptions are very good (Basically the non-Jung ones) but if it turns out that I'm actually an ISFJ, that is now cool by me. Descriptions are just descriptions and there is alot of variation within a type. There are some really awesome ISFJs on this forum and on the ISFJ subforum over on Personality Cafe.
Yes, ISFJ is a type that goes largely unappreciated in the type community. It isn't just ISFJs, its S types in general, especially SJs. I think better descriptions should be written by people who are actually ISFJs. The same goes for the other three SJ types as well as the SPs. SJs tend to be misportrayed as boring people who are uncreative with a sheep mentality. I think its largely why so many S types mistype as N and I think it's partly why alot more N's become interested in MBTI. An N type takes a test and they read an insightful profile that makes them special and unique. An SJ type, not so much.
The_World_As_Will
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- 415
ah, that was very insightful thanks and y'know I actually think you might be an INFP, what jumped out to me is the hating open ended questions thing, that seems very much like inferior Te, you also mentioned the rumination thing that occurs, thats typical of INFPs as well, much more so than INTPs but it does occur (it occurs with me, but not to the extent to which you described). I think you may relate to the paul james INTP profile, and if you are an INFP, that would make sense, as the functions are quite similar, and well both types are quite similar. I don't really get an SJ vibe from you honestly, I see an Fi-Si loop, and if anything the hypersensitivity is more pronounced being a 5-9, hell I'm one and i'm pretty sensitive. Have you gotten any ISFJ's opinions of this? lurk around the SJ section, I think you will find your answer, but yeah i agree SJ types aren't really well-represented. I'm sure it must be really confusing for you though, you'll find you're answer soon enough, but yeah I'm thinking INFP.
and y'know I actually think you might be an INFP, what jumped out to me is the hating open ended questions thing, that seems very much like inferior Te, you also mentioned the rumination thing that occurs, thats typical of INFPs as well, much more so than INTPs but it does occur (it occurs with me, but not to the extent to which you described). I think you may relate to the paul james INTP profile, and if you are an INFP, that would make sense, as the functions are quite similar, and well both types are quite similar. I don't really get an SJ vibe from you honestly, I see an Fi-Si loop, and if anything the hypersensitivity is more pronounced being a 5-9, hell I'm one and i'm pretty sensitive. Have you gotten any ISFJ's opinions of this? lurk around the SJ section, I think you will find your answer, but yeah i agree SJ types aren't really well-represented. I'm sure it must be really confusing for you though, you'll find you're answer soon enough, but yeah I'm thinking INFP.
Thalassa
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If your Fe is that low, I doubt you're an ISFJ.
I know someone who keeps claiming ISFJ who always tests much higher in Fi than Fe, though. He's totally an Si dom. He can't be anything other than an ISFJ or an ISTJ who is really really deep inside his tertiary feeling function to the point of not fully utilizing his Te.
But he scores higher on Te on Ti, so this is very suspect.
Still, he swears ISFJ.
*headdesk*
I think you're INTP or INFP. INFP could be the possibility that's overlooked here, and you're just using a ton of Si.
I have a lot of Si for an ENFP.
I know someone who keeps claiming ISFJ who always tests much higher in Fi than Fe, though. He's totally an Si dom. He can't be anything other than an ISFJ or an ISTJ who is really really deep inside his tertiary feeling function to the point of not fully utilizing his Te.
But he scores higher on Te on Ti, so this is very suspect.
Still, he swears ISFJ.
*headdesk*
I think you're INTP or INFP. INFP could be the possibility that's overlooked here, and you're just using a ton of Si.
I have a lot of Si for an ENFP.
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