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  1. #51
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Not wanting to be a certain type does sound very Ti-like to me. I wouldnt want to be anything I didnt like.

    It will be hard for you to find out on this online forum what type you really want to be like, if I make threads like these I get a lot of types from estp, to enfj, it's kinda like that that peoples perceptions are always different and many will see you just differently. This will be the same in real life.

    It's near impossible to pinpoint your type down really exactly, I even think it's impossible to be one type only for real. It's good that you discuss things here but you'll need to make a decision for yourself some place on the way.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Not wanting to be a certain type does sound very Ti-like to me. I wouldnt want to be anything I didnt like.
    Maybe it isn't really even type related. Who wants to be something they don't like? Sounds like most people think this from time to time.

    It doesn't even have to be a type necessarily. There are attributes I would not want to have that aren't type related at all. I don't want to be a retard or a sociopath for example.

    Honestly, there are times where I really don't want to be an INTP either.
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  3. #53
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    If its of any use to you: I have seen especially ntp's on this forum often having a deep questioning nature of self. I include myself in this. It's as if you are looking for the perfect answer, the psychological equation that says 1+1 = intp but it just doesnt work with psych topics. There is no clear definition of type and every new time you think about it you resemble another strength in you and you think if you couldnt be a different type. For Ne-doms this can be become really worse, here it means: if you can imagine it, it does exist. And that means you can really heavily talk yourself into being a type tho you are a completly different.

    I have at some point given up to think about whether I am entj or entp. Everytime I do the mbti test, I score entj, yet measured against the sum of my whackiness I cant really believe that. I have just tho given up at some point to think about it, because my investigation had reached an end and I knew maybe if I go on like this 10 more years, I'll find the answer; but for what price ?! The positive side of all this is by thinking so much about myself, I've fundamentally learnt a lot about myself, yet a clear mbti type for me evades my grasp; it's only like that: it's the most probable i am entp.

    I can feel your thoughts, worries and doubts on that topic and I am strongly convinced you have the Ti/Fe/Ne/Si combo in you. I can perfectly imagine you being intp. I can not really help you to give you the final answer on that quest, I just wanted to eleviate the burden a bit that it can be to think about this mbti type. Psychology is frustrating and far away from a clear and shiny mathematical equation. In thermodynamics you say there is a measurement of a state and the measurement of a process. Work for example is the measurement of a process. The same it is with personality and type, it is a dynamic model, a process and it changes over the time, only a differential equation could measure it.

    Never give up thinking about yourself, but dont forget to celebrate the results either. Tho you may not have a clear type in your hands in the end of which result you could be 100% convinced of, you'll find out alot about yourself in the process of mthinking about yourself. And never forget to celebrate these victories
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #54
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    Okay, I'm reviving this thread because once again I'm unsure.


    I read the Jungian Cognitive Function descriptions over on the main page of the Personality Nation forum and I truly can't decide if ISFJ or INTP fits better. They are both eerily accurate for me. I'm probably experiencing a Ti/Si loop with a weak auxilary function.

    So I want your honest opinion here.

    I'm actually leaning very slightly towards ISFJ this second, albeit an atypical one.
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  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    Okay, I'm reviving this thread because once again I'm unsure.


    I read the Jungian Cognitive Function descriptions over on the main page of the Personality Nation forum and I truly can't decide if ISFJ or INTP fits better. They are both eerily accurate for me. I'm probably experiencing a Ti/Si loop with a weak auxilary function.

    So I want your honest opinion here.

    I'm actually leaning very slightly towards ISFJ this second, albeit an atypical one.
    may I introduce you to this thread, I was confused over ENTP or INTP, and that helped me solve the problem, essentially the theory called 'point of least resistance', shows the tertiary-opposition will indicate your type, The ISFJ's tertiary function is Introverted Thinking, so the opposite of that function is Extraverted Thinking, do you lack Te? as oppose to lacking Extraverted Sensation (for INTP?). It's a really interesting way to figure it all out, or atleast it helped me. Browse through the thread, and personally, I think you are experiencing the Ti-Si loop, are you really nostalgic about things?. Also, you should read this really awesome INTP profile if you haven't already.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    may I introduce you to this thread, I was confused over ENTP or INTP, and that helped me solve the problem, essentially the theory called 'point of least resistance', shows the tertiary-opposition will indicate your type, The ISFJ's tertiary function is Introverted Thinking, so the opposite of that function is Extraverted Thinking, do you lack Te? as oppose to lacking Extraverted Sensation (for INTP?). It's a really interesting way to figure it all out, or atleast it helped me. Browse through the thread, and personally, I think you are experiencing the Ti-Si loop, are you really nostalgic about things?. Also, you should read this really awesome INTP profile if you haven't already.
    INTP would have tertiary opposite as Se; ISFJ would have Te. Overall, I'd have to say Se has been more problematic in my life than Te has been. So that suggests INTP. I also related to so much of Paul James INTP profile that it's scary.

    So why question INTP? Well I've been doing some thinking and here are a bunch of other things about me that I don't think I already mentioned in this thread. If I already mentioned it, then I apologize.

    Yes, this is going to be a big information dump but the more data, the better the likelihood of accurate typing.

    I find that I rely heavily on past experience and what I already know to guide me through situations. The first thing I always ask myself is how does this relate to what I already know and have experienced? I am capable of navigating new situations if I can see some relationship between this situation and a past one but if it’s totally new with no previous experience or knowledge base to draw upon, I’m totally lost and tend to panic. So is this indicative of Si (dominant for ISFJ)? I think it is but then again, doesn’t everybody do/think this to some extent?

    I know that I tend to notice when something has changed from how it was in the past. I can be exhaustively thorough on things, making sure nothing is left out. I’m always spotting certain details like typos and smudges on paper. Yet in other ways I’m not so detail oriented. I don’t always have the best spatial awareness of objects. When navigating a new workplace, I’m not naturally good at paying attention to where all the objects in the room are located, especially if I rarely use them. Sometimes I actually have to take notes on where to find certain things, especially if there isn’t much logic to where its placed and the location seems rather arbitrary. I think my Si is stronger than my Se by far. I’m good at selectively paying attention to certain details that are of personal interest or importance to me but if the details don’t pertain to me, I often overlook them.

    I’m not sure I’m as strongly intuitive as the tests make me out to be. Sure I value imagination and out of the box thinking and insights and original thought and questioning convention. But just because you value something doesn’t mean it’s a strong suit of yours. When I really think about it, I don’t think I’m by nature all that inventive or original in my thinking. I think I’m naturally better at taking some tried and true idea or process and maybe tweaking it a bit, seeing where the flaws are and improving upon that rather than inventing something totally new. I think I admire the way intuitives think and I envy some of the original ideas that they can come up with because I know that I probably wouldn’t have thought of that in a million years. I remember back in school when we had creative writing and art assignments that emphasized originality and how much of a strain on my brain it was to produce something original. What I basically ended up doing was taking a familiar situation and slightly changing a few variables. I think sometimes I answer questions on tests based on what I value more personally and that’s why usually test as N. I hate thinking myself as not being very original in my thinking. I want to be thought of as an interesting person. If you’re overly conventional in thinking, how interesting is that? Maybe I’m interesting in other respects. Originality isn’t everything. Practicality has some value. The world also needs followers of the new ideas created.

    Yet on the other hand, I’m extremely introspective and capable of deep thinking and going what’s beyond the surface. I can be rather absent minded and not always fully in the moment. I think a lot about the future and like creating my own theories for the phenomena around me.

    I also think I tend to score as N because the tests are flawed and make N sound more intelligent than S, as if they are capable of higher level thinking and S types are not. It’s true that I’ve always scored high on IQ tests.

    Another reason for doubting my N stems back from my childhood. I’m good at abstract thinking and making inferences now but not so much in my childhood. I remember struggling in reading class when we were asked questions regarding the underlying motives of peoples’ behavior. I expected everything to be explicitly stated in the text and was virtually incapable of correctly answering the more inferential questions. It wasn’t until I was about 12 that my ability to think more abstractly and make inferences started to kick in. Yet I learned to read earlier than average and had a large vocabulary.
    As a child, so much of the description for Aspergers syndrome fit me. I think that confuses things because I could really be an ISFJ with weaker Fe as a result of Aspergers, causing me to come across as more INTP like. People with Aspergers also tend to take things overly literal, which was definitely a problem as a child and still to some extent today. As a kid, I didn’t understand the concept of sarcasm and just assumed that people always meant what they said.

    In some ways I think personality is the most pure as a kid, before external influences kick in and someone is pressured to act counter to preference. In some ways I was INTP like but in many ways I wasn’t. Like INTPs, I loved learning and I loved creating systems, especially classification systems. I collected things pertaining to my area of interest, although this could have also been attributed to Si. I also hated to do things just because “I said so” and could be awfully stubborn. I tended to have obsessive interests and I could go on and on about a subject and wanted to know everything about it. Yet, this could be just part of the Aspergers.

    It was my SJ qualities that set me apart from other INTPs. Reading the INTP forums, I can see how I’m different from other INTPs in many respects. I was the student who wanted to do my assignments according to the guidelines and finish them in on time. I cared about getting gold stars from the teachers (something that doesn’t mean anything to NTs according to Keirsey). I had a stronger need to please others and fit in. Yet I didn’t fit in much in school- largely because of my Asperger traits, I think. Yet I wasn’t as schedule oriented as some of the other SJ children were and procrastinated a lot on homework yet always made the deadline. It was true I’d do my assignments according to expectations but I sure didn’t hesitate to complain about those expectations. I guess when it comes to it, I feel to compliant to be an INTP and too questioning of how things are done to be ISFJ.

    Another factor that confuses things is my mother's influence. My parents, especially my mother didn't know what to make of me. My mom is an ISFJ and I think that had alot of influence as to my upbringing. If I was an INTP, then I think that my INTPness wasn't all that encouraged. I raised to be the sort of person to not make waves and to do your duty. Don't question authority- all rules are there for a good reason. You're not as good as you think you are, Don't be a show off. Don't be selfish. Always be polite. Safety first. You should have talked to me first. Put others' needs ahead of your own. Whether explictly stated or not, those were the sorts of messages that got pounded into my brain over and over again.

    I know my mom just wanted the best for me and wanted me to be happy and I love her dearly, yet some of the programming I've received from her has been harmful and I've had to unlearn some of it. This is especially true of the not questioning authority part. Authority is not always right and some people to abuse their power. If people didn’t question authority, it would be hard to make true progress.
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  7. #57
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    Default That pesky Fe!

    Another factor that complicates the issue is that by nature I am a highly sensitive and emotional person. This puts me at odds sometimes with INTP. Like N, I sometimes think I answer T on tests because I am highly intelligent and do think and analyze things a lot.

    I also admit that for some questions I answer how I’d like to be. I know that emotionally I’m rather vulnerable and thin skinned and I’ve love to be more detached and have things not get to me so much. I’m overly sensitive to how others perceive me and I’m very self-conscious. I want everyone to like me and it bothers me when someone doesn’t, even if I hardly know the person. I really get hurt when people can’t accept me for the person I am. Most INTPs, are far more tough and thick skinned than I am.

    I could very well be a feeling type who was encouraged to use T more. I remember as a child getting emotional over the dumbest things and my parents telling me to not cry, to not get so emotional. I remember as a child having poor emotional self-control. I'm not sure if this is due to being an F type or not. It could be inferior Fe or Aspergers.

    I have a strong need for harmony and I’m very sensitive to emotional vibes that others give off. I’m not the best at reading the precise nuances of body languages but I can instantly tell if someone is giving off a pleasant or an unpleasant vibe and its very difficult for me to ignore that impression. I have a very difficult time being comfortable around people who give off any sort of vibe that hints at being angry or displeased.

    I have strong opinions as far as how people should interact with other to facilitate harmonious interactions free from strife. I expect people to be polite to each other and respect others’ differences. I don’t handle conflict well and it can literally make me sick. I have a hard time relating to those who keep putting their foot in their mouth and don’t realize how hurtful their words can be.

    I have a strong need to please others and because I want harmonious interaction, I often put others’ needs ahead of my own. I think this is a hallmark ISFJ trait. Sometimes when I hear their problems, mine are minimal by comparision. I also sometimes feel like if I don’t help them, then who will and if I don’t help them, then I could get blamed for their misery, which would make me very uncomfortable.

    In my social interactions, I often let others take the lead as to what to do. For example, if we are deciding what game to play, I usually say something like it doesn’t matter to me. And truthfully, it usually doesn’t. I’m there more for the interaction itself. Some people in the group though are very adamant about wanting or not wanting to play certain games. Even if the game isn’t a favorite of mine, I’m usually silent and go along with what other people want. I didn’t always used to be this way though. As a kid, I was rather insistent on having my way and pissed people off. My mother drilled into my brain that I was being too selfish and now I feel like the pendulum has swung the opposite way.


    I will take the lead though, if others are reluctant to do so and can actually be quite an effective leader. Yet I have a hard time pushing my ideas on others. I’m very sensitive to having my own ideas rejected and often don’t put them out there as much as I should. For example, I might suggest a game we could play but if no one seems interested I won’t likely ask again and may feel hurt that my idea was rejected even though I know its nothing against me personally.


    It’s take time for me to realize just how strongly a role Fe has played in my life. Even though function tests don’t always show it, I think I do have a strong Fe. I think because I am introverted, I don’t always facilitate much social interactions, which I think brings down the score somewhat. So I could very well have an auxiliary Fe function. Yet what makes me doubt this is that I identify with inferior Fe descriptions more than inferior Ne ones. ISFJ just seems better than me at navigating gracefully through all the different types of social interactions. They seem better than me at smoothing things over, whereas for me, it seems more awkward. Also, I certainly wasn’t very adept in Fe as a child and made a lot of social faux pas when young. I doubt ISFJ because they seem to get more joy in life from Fe whereas for me it feels more like a force that has to be reckoned with.


    Also, I have a very hard time letting go of past hurts and injustices. I forgive but I never forget. It’s easy for me when I’m sad to just think about all the past hurts I’ve experienced in excruciating detail. I wish I had thicker skin. It sucks being so sensitive. One time I even cried over how sensitive I was. Talk about a catch-22. I actually think this part may be Fi related, which is why I also identify somewhat with INFP. I know a lot of INFPs who struggle with this sort of thing.

    Another thing is that I learned to suppress my feelings alot. If I said I was hurt by something, I was led to believe that I shouldn't have been hurt, that I was being overly touchy. Throughout life there have been times where I've been hurt and let it go and maybe I shouldn't have because I do have some past hurts stewing inside of me and now its too late in some cases to confront others about it. Now when I've been hurt, I do try to confront others more about it and let them know. If I don't, they could hurt me again.

    One thing I've noticed though, that makes me doubt that I'm an Fe user is that sometimes I'll find that my own feelings (Fi) take precedence over what's socially appropriate. For example, I might be hurt about something, and when I finally confront someone about it, at that point, I'm angry and I'm too wrapped up in my own feelings to care so much about yours. Sometimes the way I handle such situations, isn't always the most socially appropriate. It seems like those who truly have strong Fe can confront others more gracefully, in a way that's more respectful of the people who have hurt them. If someone's been unkind to me, it's very difficult for me to want to be kind back. My instinct is to either avoid the person entirely or to let them know in no uncertain terms that they have crossed the line and it won't be tolerated. There isn't much middle ground. Obviously this approach doesn't work well in customer service!
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  8. #58
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    Default Final thoughts

    Another thing, is that I need a moderate degree of structure when doing tasks. I hated those open-ended assignments where the teacher would say "write whatever you feel like." I don't want to be micromanaged but I do like having some clear expectations for what is considered excellent vs. merely passable. I hated turning in an assignment I thought was good and then unexpectedly finding that I overlooked something that I didn't know I needed because the teacher didn't make it explicit.

    I struggle with J/P in general. On tests I'll actually tend to score slightly in favor of J more of the time but I wonder if I'm just wanting to see myself as J in some circumstances. I like seeing myself as an organized and productive individual. I'm very organized with my belongings yet not so good with my time. It's very easy for me to waste a good part of the day on Internet forums. When I plan what I want to do for the day, I almost always list more things than can realistically get done. I will manage to make the deadlines on the essential things though. I hate the thought of having unfinished projects and feel good about having things settled and a difficult decision finally off my chest.

    Finally, I’m more open to new ideas and experiences than most ISFJs tend to be. I’m more curious, more willing to try new approaches, and less bogged down in tradition. When moving to a new city, I’m excited by all the possibilities it will bring moreso than complaining about the things I’ll have to give up. I trust my ability to adapt to the situation. Yet occasionally I find myself catastrophizing as described by inferior Ne but compared to my ISFJ mother, she does that a lot more. So I have doubts about inferior Ne.


    One last thought:

    I had mentioned previously about how the ISFJ descriptions weren't very good and how I did not want to be an ISFJ. Well I still don't think the ISFJ descriptions are very good (Basically the non-Jung ones) but if it turns out that I'm actually an ISFJ, that is now cool by me. Descriptions are just descriptions and there is alot of variation within a type. There are some really awesome ISFJs on this forum and on the ISFJ subforum over on Personality Cafe.

    Yes, ISFJ is a type that goes largely unappreciated in the type community. It isn't just ISFJs, its S types in general, especially SJs. I think better descriptions should be written by people who are actually ISFJs. The same goes for the other three SJ types as well as the SPs. SJs tend to be misportrayed as boring people who are uncreative with a sheep mentality. I think its largely why so many S types mistype as N and I think it's partly why alot more N's become interested in MBTI. An N type takes a test and they read an insightful profile that makes them special and unique. An SJ type, not so much.
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  9. #59

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    ah, that was very insightful thanks and y'know I actually think you might be an INFP, what jumped out to me is the hating open ended questions thing, that seems very much like inferior Te, you also mentioned the rumination thing that occurs, thats typical of INFPs as well, much more so than INTPs but it does occur (it occurs with me, but not to the extent to which you described). I think you may relate to the paul james INTP profile, and if you are an INFP, that would make sense, as the functions are quite similar, and well both types are quite similar. I don't really get an SJ vibe from you honestly, I see an Fi-Si loop, and if anything the hypersensitivity is more pronounced being a 5-9, hell I'm one and i'm pretty sensitive. Have you gotten any ISFJ's opinions of this? lurk around the SJ section, I think you will find your answer, but yeah i agree SJ types aren't really well-represented. I'm sure it must be really confusing for you though, you'll find you're answer soon enough, but yeah I'm thinking INFP.

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    If your Fe is that low, I doubt you're an ISFJ.

    I know someone who keeps claiming ISFJ who always tests much higher in Fi than Fe, though. He's totally an Si dom. He can't be anything other than an ISFJ or an ISTJ who is really really deep inside his tertiary feeling function to the point of not fully utilizing his Te.

    But he scores higher on Te on Ti, so this is very suspect.

    Still, he swears ISFJ.

    *headdesk*

    I think you're INTP or INFP. INFP could be the possibility that's overlooked here, and you're just using a ton of Si.

    I have a lot of Si for an ENFP.

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