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View Poll Results: Find the most suitable box for Such Irony

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  • ISTJ

    2 6.25%
  • ISFJ

    2 6.25%
  • INFJ

    4 12.50%
  • INTJ

    0 0%
  • ISTP

    1 3.13%
  • ISFP

    0 0%
  • INFP

    4 12.50%
  • INTP

    18 56.25%
  • ESTP

    0 0%
  • ESFP

    0 0%
  • ENFP

    0 0%
  • ENTP

    0 0%
  • ESTJ

    0 0%
  • ESFJ

    1 3.13%
  • ENFJ

    0 0%
  • ENTJ

    0 0%
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  1. #51
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    These are all evidences. And I see it in real life that N's prefer this sort of stuff, and most S's see it as less relevant, unless they are using it "in passing", for their job, or self-improvement, etc. They do not express the level of interest in it that she has. You're here; but then would you say you identify with her sentiment?
    Her "sentiment" was pretty general. Interests do not indicate type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    You use as the sole evidence some "Fe vibe", but in light of all the other evidence shown in favor of INTP, the vibe coming from a inferior Fe is more likely than her strong interest in the abstract coming from an inferior Ne.
    Not really, as interest in MBTI is not proof of "strong interest in the abstract," and "strong interest in the abstract" is not indicative of N. ANY type interested in learning ANYTHING is going to have an interest in the "abstract" theory related to their subject of preference. An ISTJ law student, for instance, might be interested in natural law (an "abstract" theory) because it's what they like to learn about. It says nothing about their way of thinking or their orientation to the world, which is what having an N or S preference affects. If anything, their functional orientation would affect how they carry on in their area of interest, but not what they're interested in. Interests really have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Meanwhile, since she has shown us her videos; I'm surprised you have not brought in those Socionics drawings as the final proof. Is that what you're basing ISFJ on?
    No, that's not what I originally based my typing on.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    I'm halfway through the video, and I don't see anything other than INTP. Like, textbook INTP.

    I know you've identified as INTP before, but at this point, I came in expecting something else. The need for everything to make sense, especially phrased that way, sounds very much like Ti. You talk about being happy by yourself, and I suspect that's at least partly a function of aux-Pe, probably Ne. The "J" needs -- especially "careful, cautious person" -- are things I identify with, probably Si.

    INTP. With confidence. In just three minutes, everything you're saying screams, "Ti! Ne! Si! Fe!" Taking it one letter at a time, sliding scales, like Keirsey... eh, probably INTJ. But it's not worth stressing over type with the sliding scales -- it's fluid, subject to change depending on your situation and mood, and inevitably there's some of the nuance that seems to be confusing you. Looking at the functions, if you're not INTP, it's got to be ISFJ.

    Atypical INTP sounds right. Otherwise, does ISFJ resonate at all? I'm going to watch the rest of the video now, and I'll edit this if I change my mind.

    EDIT: Just that I'm torn between INTP and ISFJ. I'm voting INTP.
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  3. #53
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Her "sentiment" was pretty general. Interests do not indicate type.

    Not really, as interest in MBTI is not proof of "strong interest in the abstract," and "strong interest in the abstract" is not indicative of N. ANY type interested in learning ANYTHING is going to have an interest in the "abstract" theory related to their subject of preference. An ISTJ law student, for instance, might be interested in natural law (an "abstract" theory) because it's what they like to learn about. It says nothing about their way of thinking or their orientation to the world, which is what having an N or S preference affects. If anything, their functional orientation would affect how they carry on in their area of interest, but not what they're interested in. Interests really have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with type.
    Again, the term is not "indicate/ive"; it's evidence. Because of the fact that all of this is abstraction, none of it is any solid concrete certainty that either IS or ISN'T.

    With an Ne perspective, most of what I say largely can be thought of as proposals, though I imagine I do make it sound certain at times. But it really isn't.
    And so far, the evidence does seem to point to INTP more than any IF, S or J type.
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  4. #54
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Again, the term is not "indicate/ive"; it's evidence. Because of the fact that all of this is abstraction, none of it is any solid concrete certainty that either IS or ISN'T.

    With an Ne perspective, most of what I say largely can be thought of as proposals, though I imagine I do make it sound certain at times. But it really isn't.
    And so far, the evidence does seem to point to INTP more than any IF, S or J type.
    Huh? If something A is evidence of something B, it's because something A indicates something B. It wouldn't be evidence if it didn't. If something A did not indicate something B, then you could not say that something A is evidence for something B. My entire last post was an attack on your "evidence," because I do not believe that it indicates INTP over any other type.

    Also, something being an "abstraction" does not mean that it is incapable of producing certain answers.
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  5. #55
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    my gut impression based on your previous posts is INFJ
    - function order Ni, Fe, Ti, Se
    - they are usually extremely rational (in fact, they're often just as rational as NTs) but they differ from NTs in that emotions can get in the way if they don't take care of them.
    - generally highly introverted, but often quite social and people oriented too
    - often have a very strong Teritary Ti
    - extremely averse to conflict
    - sometimes wish to belong to a group (others not so much)

    sound like you?
    I relate to most of it. I'm still not sure about being a dominant Ni. By people oriented, it depends on what you mean. I'm people oriented in the sense that I enjoy figuring out what makes people tick and I feel compassion for people. I can be social but the majority of the time, I prefer just being alone. So in that sense I'm not people oriented. I dislike conflict but extremely is a strong word. I'd prefer that there would be no conflict at all but I can confront others when necessary. Don't like doing it much though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Those seem like typical INTP results (Fe as low). A clue to T/F when both are strong is which function's opposite attitude is weaker. It never follows the Beebe order, but again, usually more closely the Lenore order with the inferior as very weak and the shadow of the dominant as somewhere in the middle.

    I've just seen the videos, and from the first one and some of the newest one, you sound so much like me. (Dealing with people, justice/fairness, the liking but not having animals, especially needing reason why for everything, etc. All of these Ti personal cause/effect decisions). If I had time, I'd go through them and list everything with possible explanations. For instance, I know I can be very literal as well, but it's not an S preference. It might be tertiary Si, or just a particular situation. The reason you give is less ambiguity, and that is probably more the Ti than any S.
    The same with some of what you are calling "J" behaviors.
    Process/results are also tied to Interaction Styles, and INP (Behind the Scenes) are results oriented (along with In Charge) while Get Things Going and Chart the Course are process oriented. So that is not J, but INP!

    You otherwise really sound more like a P, which is "attitude", not neatness, as you acknowledged. Ne sounds very prominent. (Different perspectives, etc).

    Feeling seems to fit a developed inferior. (Care about what others think too much as what you dislike, as opposed to your brain and intelligence being what you like about yourself). That's clear T over F preference. Fe would match what Berens calls "aspirational".

    And overall, you do seem like an INTP female, from what I have seen of them. The whole vibe and everything. Again, female might seem to be "Feeling", because that's the role society projects onto females, and of course, a majority of them are F.
    So I guess seeing your face and speech are what I needed to push me one way or the other.
    She seems like a somewhat reserved "informative" type (such as NP) rather than a naturally "robotic, tense" directive TJ. (And the NFJ is also directive, and carries a completely different vibe from her).
    The T would give enough of that composure you're interpreting as "stiff". (I didn't see it as "cold" at all, however. But I'm going by the informative vibe, which I relate better to).
    Wow, that's a load of stuff to digest. Thanks for the feedback! I think the literalness could very well be dominant Ti. I know some (but not all) INTPs with that issue. I also relate very much to aspirational Fe the way you describe it, along with informative and behind the scenes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    No. From the video, she does not seem like an ISFJ. (And I've always heard that face to face observation is apart of a genuine MBTI assessment). She seems like a female INTP, with a heightened inferior Fe. Clearly, the "thinking" she likes about herself, while the "sensitivity" she doesn't.
    That's one of the biggest clues of "preference" (moreso than behavior or even function "strength"), because preference is based on the ego's sense of "I" versus "not I".

    Going over the second video, the biggest activity she enjoys is personality theory, how people's minds work ("find it fascinating"), etc. That is clearly an N+T perspective.
    SJ's really are not into abstract theories like this. I'm surrounded by them, and can't ever get a decent conversation started on it. (Except for my wife, and only because she's studying psychology, and even then, she's just as not into it for its own sake as I am).
    So for ISFJ, it would have to be a very strong inferior Ne, but a strong inferior Fe (especially in a female) sounds more likely to me.
    I'm kind of struggling between choosing between INTP and ISFJ for myself. I know the interest in abstract theories like personality typing is far more suggestive of INTP but I feel like there is enough in the ISFJ profile that I cannot just eliminate the possibility. I'm going to post more details about this in another thread.

    INTP and ISFJ actually have a fair amount in common. Both behind the scenes. Both informing. Both structure oriented as opposed to motive oriented. The tertiary of one is the dominant of the other. If you have a well developed tertiary, its possible to mistake yourself for the other type.

    I know a couple have made a good a good case for INFJ. I'm having trouble seeing the dominant Ni. I think dominant Ti or Si makes more sense. But I am open to the possibility of INFJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    I also get an ISFJ vibe from watching the video
    What stood out to you as being ISFJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    These are all evidences. And I see it in real life that N's prefer this sort of stuff, and most S's see it as less relevant, unless they are using it "in passing", for their job, or self-improvement, etc. They do not express the level of interest in it that she has. You're here; but then would you say you identify with her sentiment?
    You use as the sole evidence some "Fe vibe", but in light of all the other evidence shown in favor of INTP, the vibe coming from a inferior Fe is more likely than her strong interest in the abstract coming from an inferior Ne.

    Meanwhile, since she has shown us her videos; I'm surprised you have not brought in those Socionics drawings as the final proof. Is that what you're basing ISFJ on?
    I sent some photos of myself to Orangey and he said they best fit ISFJ. I'm hoping he's not basing my type just on photos. I don't think he is. Anyway, I suppose it depends on which photos you use as a template. I've had other people phototype me and they said socionics INTj/LII, which is similar function wise to MBTI INTP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Her "sentiment" was pretty general. Interests do not indicate type.

    Not really, as interest in MBTI is not proof of "strong interest in the abstract," and "strong interest in the abstract" is not indicative of N. ANY type interested in learning ANYTHING is going to have an interest in the "abstract" theory related to their subject of preference. An ISTJ law student, for instance, might be interested in natural law (an "abstract" theory) because it's what they like to learn about. It says nothing about their way of thinking or their orientation to the world, which is what having an N or S preference affects. If anything, their functional orientation would affect how they carry on in their area of interest, but not what they're interested in. Interests really have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with type.

    No, that's not what I originally based my typing on.
    I generally agree with this. I do think some interests will likely be more common in some types but you can't type someone solely based on their interests. It's more important to ask, *what* specifically is it about the interest that appeals to them? ISFJ and INTP may both be interested in the MBTI but I think ISFJ is going to take a more practical approach and use it to get along better with others and enhance personal relationships. INTP is more likely to be intrigued by the logical elegance of the theory and fitting people into a framework and less likely to care about the practical implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by burymecloser View Post
    I'm halfway through the video, and I don't see anything other than INTP. Like, textbook INTP.

    I know you've identified as INTP before, but at this point, I came in expecting something else. The need for everything to make sense, especially phrased that way, sounds very much like Ti. You talk about being happy by yourself, and I suspect that's at least partly a function of aux-Pe, probably Ne. The "J" needs -- especially "careful, cautious person" -- are things I identify with, probably Si.

    INTP. With confidence. In just three minutes, everything you're saying screams, "Ti! Ne! Si! Fe!" Taking it one letter at a time, sliding scales, like Keirsey... eh, probably INTJ. But it's not worth stressing over type with the sliding scales -- it's fluid, subject to change depending on your situation and mood, and inevitably there's some of the nuance that seems to be confusing you. Looking at the functions, if you're not INTP, it's got to be ISFJ.

    Atypical INTP sounds right. Otherwise, does ISFJ resonate at all? I'm going to watch the rest of the video now, and I'll edit this if I change my mind.

    EDIT: Just that I'm torn between INTP and ISFJ. I'm voting INTP.
    Thanks for your feedback. I'm torn too between INTP and ISFJ for my own self-assessment. I'm leaning towards INTP but since ISFJ has been brought up I'm going to explain more about how I fit ISFJ in another thread. Just out of curiosity, what does being happy by yourself have to do with aux. Pe?



    Here's another thing I've been wondering about:

    The majority of the votes are for INTP by a landslide. I can't help but wonder though if that's largely due to the fact that I had INTP as my original self-typing. I've noticed on forums that people usually agree on others' self-typings unless something really stands out as not fitting. So I can't help but wonder if the majority would have voted INFJ or ISFJ for example if I originally gave that as my self-typing?
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  6. #56
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Huh? If something A is evidence of something B, it's because something A indicates something B. It wouldn't be evidence if it didn't. If something A did not indicate something B, then you could not say that something A is evidence for something B. My entire last post was an attack on your "evidence," because I do not believe that it indicates INTP over any other type.

    Also, something being an "abstraction" does not mean that it is incapable of producing certain answers.
    "Indicates", the way you are using it, sounded more like a exclusive conclusion. It is really not, but rather more of a suggestion based on a weighing of evidence. And I didn't say anything about "incapable"; but that in this case, things are clearly not "certain".

    So while dismissing all of my evidence, what you offer is but "evidence" of your own, but all that was was just an "Fe vibe". Why is this any better than "interests" and the other examples I have offered? (One of which was a big clue to her sense of "I" versus "not I", which is the very definition of an ego's preference).
    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    I sent some photos of myself to Orangey and he said they best fit ISFJ. I'm hoping he's not basing my type just on photos. I don't think he is. Anyway, I suppose it depends on which photos you use as a template. I've had other people phototype me and they said socionics INTj/LII, which is similar function wise to MBTI INTP.
    You really can't use just photos at all. You might get a vague idea of some features, such as whether a person is an extravert (particularly, a Sanguine or Get Things Going), by how "bright" their smile looks. But even that is not certain. You certainly wouldn't be able to tell between two similar types like INTP and ISFJ.
    If you're going to go by visual, you need to see the person "live" (animated, that is).
    I generally agree with this. I do think some interests will likely be more common in some types but you can't type someone solely based on their interests. It's more important to ask, *what* specifically is it about the interest that appeals to them? ISFJ and INTP may both be interested in the MBTI but I think ISFJ is going to take a more practical approach and use it to get along better with others and enhance personal relationships. INTP is more likely to be intrigued by the logical elegance of the theory and fitting people into a framework and less likely to care about the practical implications.
    This is what I was trying to say.
    I didn't say "solely" by interests, but you did seem to indicate the latter reason, and that to me, was a big evidence.
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  7. #57
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    voted INTP. watched your video and you have that same rambly talk pattern my INTPs do, sounds more Ti than Te to me. you don't seem... i dunno, "sharp" (obviously not in the sense of smart) enough to be a J. they're more terse, more sure.

    i've noticed that Ti IRL can manifest in very J-ish ways. INTP dad (i think he's e5w6) is very punctual; INTP brother (e5w4) is meticulous about taking care of his things; INTP dad is cautious; INTP brother has a special place for everything and is anal about it being there. but both have self-affirmed as INTP.

    also "i want further clarification" is a really INTP thing to say

    just my thoughts though, good luck figuring it out

  8. #58
    Senior Member burymecloser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    Thanks for your feedback. I'm torn too between INTP and ISFJ for my own self-assessment. I'm leaning towards INTP but since ISFJ has been brought up I'm going to explain more about how I fit ISFJ in another thread. Just out of curiosity, what does being happy by yourself have to do with aux. Pe?
    It was mostly this: "I spend a lot of time in my own head. You know, what's going on inside my own head, my own mind, is far more interesting than what's going on out there in the real world. And, you know, I'm happy by myself most of the time. I don't need a whole lot of contact with people in the real world."
    Part of that is introversion, obviously, but it also sounds to me like Ne. Maybe I'm reading too much into this or projecting myself onto you, but I am not easily bored when I'm alone. In company, I often find conversations tedious if I'm not learning anything and I don't have anything to contribute. But by myself -- man, does it take a long time before I get bored. I just need one spark of something interesting, and along the way, I'll think of all these other (loosely related) topics that are also interesting. In fact, I might not get through all of them before something else calls for my attention. There are a lot of people on this forum who know more about typology than I do, but I think that's Ne. And I think it fits what you described.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony
    The majority of the votes are for INTP by a landslide. I can't help but wonder though if that's largely due to the fact that I had INTP as my original self-typing. I've noticed on forums that people usually agree on others' self-typings unless something really stands out as not fitting. So I can't help but wonder if the majority would have voted INFJ or ISFJ for example if I originally gave that as my self-typing?
    ISFJ, maybe. But by the time I posted in this thread, I figured you probably weren't INTP. Your video seemed really Ti-Si to me, though. I wouldn't seriously consider anything other than INTP and ISFJ at this point.

    If I've mistyped you as INTP, it's because I related to your video and projected, not because I already believed you were that type.
    i just want to be a sweetheart

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