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  • Obvious INTP is obvious

    3 9.09%
  • Probably INTP

    15 45.45%
  • INTJ

    0 0%
  • INFP

    11 33.33%
  • ENTP

    0 0%
  • ISTP

    1 3.03%
  • ENFP

    0 0%
  • Something else...

    3 9.09%
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  1. #111
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    ^

    Maybe... but I don't think I dissected them that much, and I only did so once it was suggested by someone else. I'm pretty sure any type can get obsessed with finding the right type.

    Anyway, at least as far as INTP/ENTP goes, I kind of want to throw away the first letter as irrelevant and make it a Z or something. All I've found through my investigations is tons of similarities and the few things that are different I am either split or in between on. It's a simple enough question to answer: NeTi or TiNe? Is there an easy way to tell which one leads that I am missing? Well, other than that function test that I've taken so many times and says that I'm about even, so even that won't work now...

  2. #112
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    It might be difficult, but you really have to determine what your ego's "operating charter", so to speak, is. The functional perspective that serves your main goals. If it's Ti (or Fi), it might be hard to recognize it, as Ne will tend to stick out whether dom. or aux.
    I too thought Ne might have been "stronger" since childhood, but now, squaring away the definitions of the functions better, it makes it clearer, it was Ti.

    So does your ego's main goals focus on:
    technical variables; essential dynamics of in a situation related to our intended effect (Ti)
    emergent meanings; possibilities of situations (Ne)?

    One will likely go all the way back to as far as you can remember. The other might still be there, but not as solidified as the one that developed first. If the introverted one is dominant, then you would have been focused more inwardly, and earlier on, the external data might have seemed a bit intrusive, until you were ready to feed the internal world more. If the other way around, then you would have lived squarely for the external data, and not have had much of an internal grounding until later, to anchor the external focus with.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  3. #113
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Since I have one detailed memory of my thoughts that goes way back, I’ll describe it and see if there are any real links to this stuff and to an “operating charter.”

    I was four years old and had just moved to a new town, so I was stuck inside the house a lot. I was watching my mom sorting through mail and coupons when I spotted a coupon with a bunch of balloons and colors on it. It was for some sort of playplace across town. “I want to go there,” I explained, and my mom assured me that we would go there soon. But then I saw my mom going back to sorting through the coupons, and I realized that soon was soon for adults and not soon for kids. It could be a day or even a week, which seemed to be forever back then. So then I figured if I wanted to go there now rather than soon, I could take myself. I figured that if cars can just sort of end up at the right places, that if I started walking somewhere I would just end up in the right place. I packed up some of my toys in a basket, put on my shoes, and planned a couple different ways to be able to unlock the front door, but it was unlocked anyway. I made it up to the end of the block before I was stopped by a street to cross. I knew I had to look both ways and make sure there weren’t any cars, but every time I looked I could see a car, so I was stuck there for a couple minutes and that is when one of my neighbors spotted me and brought me back to my frantic parents. I thought of it as a brilliant plan and was shocked to see how upset and excited to see me back they were.

    Can type be applied to any of this? Or is this just an example of the typical bored and clueless four-year-old? I would guess that this story and my overall mindset at age 3-5 leans Se/Ne+Ji if it is applicable but I really don’t know. Taking my age into account, I probably had a decent inner grounding but at the same time external data wasn't intrusive at all...

    There was probably a shift at age 5-6 where I was still much of an explorer but I liked to collect facts on things. I thought it was totally cool when I found out something that was a "third-grader thing". Tracing letters and counting to 20 was boring I loved to see that chain of numbers around the class that went up to 125, and I wanted to know what came after that and how far it could go.

    Then another shift at 7-8 where I became more about being precise in my observations...

    Then at 9-11 I shifted again to not caring about academics and getting things right anymore and just trying to get by with some fun along the way.

    Then at 12 I started a slow shift again towards wanting to do well in school in order to explore and understand the universe, but with some teenage issues thrown in there about wanting to be worthwhile and accepted.

    Then at 16 this became more focused, wanting to find specific areas to be competent at and while finding out who in the world I am in the first place

    At 18 I started finding out the answers at what I can do well at and all this personality typology nonsense, but lost a lot of my focusing powers to do so

    At 22 (aka over the past few days) I decided that focusing powers are overrated and that exploration is where it's at



    So....... is there a pattern here yet?

  4. #114
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Maybe this will help (stuff copypasta'd from cognitiveprocesses.com):

    The Leading Role (Dominant) The process that plays the leading role is the one that usually develops early in childhood. We tend to engage in this process first, trusting it to solve our problems and help us be successful. Being the most trusted and most used, it usually has an adult, mature quality to it. While we are likely to engage in it rather automatically and effortlessly, we have much more conscious control over it. The energy cost for using it is very low. Much like in the movies, the leading role has a heroic quality as using it can get us out of difficult situations. However, we can sometimes “turn up the volume” on this process and become overbearing and domineering. Then it takes on a negative dominating quality.

    If INTP… I’m not sure how I would recognize Ti usage in early childhood. I could see it obviously as young as 7. I do trust it a lot now and it is pretty automatic. It can sometimes get too dominating and then I get accused of overanalyzing the situation and such.

    If ENTP… I could see this more at work in early childhood but I could be mixing things up here. I guess you could say that I trust Ne but it needs to be tossed over to a judging function for me to really trust it. A lot of times it is automatic but sometimes I can have conscious control. Energy cost is almost nil—it is energizing. It’s kind of a hero but not domineering. But I do sometimes get “that look” when I am offering possibilities of “stop it with your crazy options” or “are you high?”

    The Supporting Role (Auxiliary) The supporting role is how we are helpful to others as well as supportive of ourselves. Once we have developed some facility with our leading role process, we are more likely to feel comfortable engaging in our supporting role process. In its most positive form, this can be quite like a nurturing parent. In its more negative aspect, it can be overprotective and stunting rather than helpful. When the leading role process is an extraverted one, the supporting role process is introverted. When the leading role process is an introverted one, the supporting role process is extraverted and may be quite active and visible as it provides a way of dealing with the outer world.

    If INTP…yes, the whole Ne/Fe combo seeks to find options to help out other people (too bad most people don’t appreciate it at all.) Sometimes it is a parent to Ti in the form of “nuh uh, it doesn’t have to be that way. It could be this way, or that way…”

    IF ENTP…in the same way, I can use Ti to be helpful to others by providing them with a framework to see things through. It can be very parental of Ne in the form of “nuh uh, that wouldn’t work because of (insert definition or framework here)” It is sometimes a nagging and overprotective parent :P

    The Relief Role (Tertiary)
    The relief role gives us a way to energize and recharge ourselves. It serves as a backup to the supporting role and often works in tandem with it. When we are younger, we might not engage in the process that plays this role very much unless our life circumstances require it or make it hard to use the supporting role process. Usually, in young adulthood we are attracted to activities that draw upon this process. The relief role often is how we express our creativity. It is how we are playful and childlike. In its most negative expression, this is how we become childish. Then it has an unsettling quality, and we can use this process to distract ourselves and others, getting us off target.

    If INTP… Si is a pretty good backup to Ti, but I’m not sure how I would express creativity through it. Sometimes it is childlike and gets me off target, like I get fixated on rote memorization or nostalgia trips…

    If ENTP, I am only beginning to understand how I use Fe. I pretty much avoided it most of my life but now that I am in young adulthood, it’s like I’ve been getting Fe slapped lately…. Realizing that I want to be part of groups and reveal myself to others and whatnot. There all along, but coming into conscious awareness, telling me to do things like starting clubs, solve problems for other people, and maybe try that whole charm thing so that people aren’t as scared of me But even now it doesn’t have the quality that it would in an xxFJ. It’s very childlike and kind of unstable, not in a manipulative sort of way but in an awkward and playful way.

    I could go into the inferior too but it may not be accurate since I am not in midlife yet. I think I have said a lot already, lol.
    Last edited by LunaLuminosity; 04-03-2011 at 12:39 PM.

  5. #115
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    As soon as you mentioned coupons with colors on it, it reminded me of myself.

    All of that looks like Ti maturing from year to year.

    You mentioned a lot of technical variables, moreso than "emergent meanings/possibilities". Ne and Se were not yet really distinguished as the auxiliary function. Both seemed to serve your goals (imagining possibilities, as well as taking action on them).

    Examples of Ti "essential dynamics of in a situation related to our intended effect":

    •Realizing "soon" meant something different to your parents than to you, and based on her actions (analyzing, definitions)

    •Realizing that cars can take you to the right place, so walking should be able to as well. Of course, this was a very immature Ti, not taking into consideration other variables, such as knowing the right way to not get lost, the fact that it's a dangerous world for four your old little children to be out by themselves, etc. But the effort shows an young Ti raring to go! I was like this too, and soon set out to study maps and learn the way to go anywhere so I woudl never get lost. All that was lacking was the ability to travel alone. I went for years trying to get others to take me places (and this is where the "Choleric" really manifested itself"), and as soon as I came of age, I took off on my own!

    •Planning to figure out how to work the lock (analysis)

    •Thinking it was a brilliant plan. While this could be TiNe or the other NT combinations, it is clear that Thinking was in the lead, even at that early age, even moreso than iNtuition (which may have helped make you realize the possible dangers). Ti aimed to take off like Superman leaping into the sky.

    •Then, at 5-6, Ti was maturing, and you realized the need to collect more facts. That's the way Ti learns those "essential dynamics" and "variables" used in building its frameworks.

    •7-8, precision; that's a hallmark of Ti, as it continues to mature.

    •9-11, that sounds like Pe beginning to develop, and "fun" can still be with Ne. (P in general will be more into "fun" in different ways).

    •12, sounds like both Ti and Ne continuing to mature. Teenage issues I don't think is type specific. Like we could say it is "inferior Fe", but that is probably not really differentiating itself yet.

    •16, NT as a whole continuing to develop towards adulthood. (competency is the NT temperament need).

    •18, 22, it sounds like perhaps Ne and maybe even S and F demanding attention. Perhaps, because you are ambiverted, as I had mentioned before, your extraverted functions were stronger than usual.

    For me, my development was similar to yours, though my Si really became big in teens (which is a bit early, the tertiary is supposed to develop around 20, they say), and that shifted some of the focus.

    But the main point, was it was clearly the Ti that developed first for you, and pretty strong at that.

    What I should have done awhile ago, is point to these pages, showing the eight different child types when the dominant functions has developed.
    http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ITP.html
    http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ENP.html

    These both sounded like me, yet when I took the test, trying to remember how I would have answered as a child, I did come up ITP. Some things are similar, such as even "adventurousness'. But clearly, the ENP is less focused on rational content. They are about "ideas", but it is not the personal vs technical focus that is distinguished yet. For you, the technical focus had distinguished itself, but not really the concrete vs abstract focus, yet.

    So it looks like you are definitely INTP, though you might have some ambiversion in the dimension of "expressiveness".
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  6. #116
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    ENP Traits
    1. They have a lot of energy
    2. They're curious about everything, and seem to be always asking "Why?"
    3. They have lots of ideas and love to talk about them
    4. They always have several projects going on
    5. They want to be original and interesting
    6. They like to be leaders, and resist following
    7. They're very social
    8. They're very independent, and want to do things for themselves
    9. They want to be the center of attention
    10. They probably tend to be dramatic, and enjoy acting or performing
    11. They're outspoken and energetic, and may interrupt frequently, or finish people's sentences for them
    Potential Strengths
    1. They're usually cheerful, optimistic, and fun to be around
    2. They're enthusiastic and fearless
    3. They believe that anything is possible
    4. They have very good communication skills and a strong ability to persuade others to come around to their point of view
    5. They usually have a good vocabulary, and can express themselves well in written and verbal form
    6. They're very clever
    7. They show an unusual understanding of people and situations for a child
    8. They have good people skills and are usually well-liked
    9. They naturally see the possibilities of a situation and the "big picture"
    Potential Weaknesses
    1. They frequently forget rules, or else they never knew them in the first place
    2. They have a lot of projects going on at one time, and may be scattered
    3. They frequently don't finish their projects
    4. They're usually very messy, and dislike cleaning up
    5. They tend to speak in a very loud voice without realizing it
    6. They have difficulty making decisions, and often resist decisions
    7. They are often unaware of their physical environment
    8. They may not take good care of themselves
    9. They're not usually very aware of time or schedules
    10. They don't like being controlled by others, and may be rebellious
    11. They dislike being asked to do anything, and will often act very "put upon" by any request

    ITP Traits
    1. Logical and objective
    2. Tend to be adventurous, and enjoy taking physical risks
    3. They're original and value their uniqueness
    4. They're highly independent, and don't like being told what to do
    5. They have no interest in controlling or leading others, or telling them what to do
    6. Quiet and serious
    7. Honest and direct
    8. They're very observant
    9. Curious and interested in learning new things
    10. Quick to learn new things
    11. Not overly affectionate or demonstrative of their love
    12. They enjoy books
    13. They have a tendency to be loners, and may have one or two friends, rather than lots of acquaintances
    14. They're very easy-going and undemanding
    15. Often prefer to work alone rather than in groups
    16. They want to be good at things that interest them, and they apply their own standards rather than trying to impress anyone else
    17. They get bored easily
    18. They value precision in communication, and are irritated by exaggerations and half-truths
    Potential Strengths
    1. When interested in something, they exhibit extreme competence and will master it completely
    2. They're flexible and can adapt well to new situations
    3. Laid-back and easy-going, they're usually easy to get along with
    4. Strong sense of fairness
    5. They're highly observant, and quickly incorporate new data into their thinking
    6. They're usually quite intelligent, and able to do well in higher education
    7. They're quite honest and truthful
    8. They take things seriously, and are seldom frivolous or flighty
    9. They have open and accepting natures, although they're not always interested in people
    Potential Weaknesses
    1. They don't have a good sense of time or schedules, and may frequently run late or miss deadlines
    2. They will strongly resist being told what to do, which may present a discipline problem
    3. They do not like to make decisions, and prefer to leave things open until the last possible moment
    4. They will resist doing anything that they don't feel like doing
    5. They're often unaware of how others are feeling, or how their own behavior affects others
    6. They keep their own feelings closely guarded and well-hidden from others, sometimes even from themselves
    7. When stressed out or upset, they may react with extreme emotions that are inappropriate or exaggerated for the situation
    8. Highly objective and detached, they may have difficulty forming close bonds with people
    9. With their risk-taking natures, they might get into some trouble


    Looks like I lean ITP on this, but not by that much. Maybe I'm some weird combination like iNTP 7 or eNTP 5... this is leaving me more confused than before.

  7. #117
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Well, you have a lot more crossed out for ENP than for ITP. And those are some key "extraversion" traits. And it's not like the traits are mutually exclusive. Like anything you don't cross off in ENP necessarily contradicts ITP.

    Stuff like "leading" and "demanding", which you crossed off, would seem to be part of the Choleric in Control, and ITP can either become SupChlor or PhlegChlor, or MelSan (the ISTP). The latter will be less like that, and again, for the others, it is often mellowed out by the Interaction Style.
    So this is generalizing and probably assuming that the leadership traits haven't developed like that yet, or won't be that prominent, but for some of us, they are.

    The same with "trying to impress anyone else".
    Even for "frivolous and flighty", if you are really an ambivert, then you will be a bit more like that than the typical introverted child. Yet the seriousness was clearly there.

    So, sorry if you feel more confused, but it looks like more good evidence for INTP to me.

    As for Enneagram, how about 6w7? I should have thought of that as well, as it would make sense for an ambivert who's between Supine and Sanguine.
    Here's a discussion comparing 6w7 and 6w5:
    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/fo...hTerms=6w5,6w7
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  8. #118
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Well, you have a lot more crossed out for ENP than for ITP. And those are some key "extraversion" traits. And it's not like the traits are mutually exclusive. Like anything you don't cross off in ENP necessarily contradicts ITP.
    Well, this is part of what confuses me. I'm not sure how the things that I crossed out for extraversion are key, since a lot of those things are related to skills, not preferences. People skills, communication skills, good vocabulary... are those really requirements? The loud voice thing might be an indication, but part of the reason why I error on speaking too soft is because speaking loudly hurts my voice.

    Also, in another thread, you said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    True type or temperament is about the inner needs of the person, whether fulfilled or not.
    and wouldn't this throw things off a lot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    As for Enneagram, how about 6w7? I should have thought of that as well, as it would make sense for an ambivert who's between Supine and Sanguine.
    Here's a discussion comparing 6w7 and 6w5:
    http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/fo...hTerms=6w5,6w7
    Some of the things for 6 I relate to a lot, and some not at all. I'm pretty anxious, indecisive, doubting, and rebellious... but not reliable, commited or responsible at all. If I am a six, I have very strong 5 and 7 wings. Maybe it explains why I am so torn between 5 and 7.
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  9. #119
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Well, I'm looking at these things as evidences, and in that other discussion, I was talking about why some extraverts might not display the extraversion traits as much. So yes, it is possible to cross them out and still be an extravert, but on the other hand, the whole "inner needs" part addressed that the person's natural inclination might be to display those behaviors, but some circumstances changed them.

    Do you think you had some circumstances like the ones Marm mentioned that caused you to act more introverted, when the extraverted traits would have come more naturally? In such cases, removal from the situation (like growing up and moving out on one's own) usually lets them develop their true extraverted traits.
    You said "speaking loudly hurts my voice", and that could be a form of "overstimulatability".

    Again, those were just evidences, and the point was it looks like you fit ITP more than ENP.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  10. #120
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Do you think you had some circumstances like the ones Marm mentioned that caused you to act more introverted, when the extraverted traits would have come more naturally?
    If you mean that I grew up in a rural area but was still a charismatic performer... no, not those circumstances at all. I had auditory processing problems and had issues in school to the point where some of my early teachers suspected I was mildly autistic. Sometimes when people would speak to me all I would hear was this gibberish, and I would want to respond to them but not know how to. I also didn't really understand the whole concept of initiating contact with other kids for a while.

    I would play together with them sometimes with things that didn't require speech as much, but sometimes I would play on my own. I remember this one time when I was seven and at recess the school psychologist was watching me play by myself and she asked why I was doing this. I responded "Well, I do want (so-and-so) to play." She asked "well, why don't you invite her to play?" My response was something along the lines of "I don't know. She doesn't like me (a.k.a., if she doesn't find me too weird, she will just join me)." As this indicates, I did have enough of an understanding of others to know that they found me to be too weird, but I think I took this to extremes. I would've liked to do stuff like perform and be admired, but I didn't think that was possible in my early years.

    I remember another incident around the same age when I was at some sort of family gathering thing/party and there was a place in the middle of the room where people danced but it was empty. My mom noted that I looked even more fidgety than usual and asked what was wrong. I responded "I want to go dance in the middle there." She responded "well then just go and do it then." I exclaimed "but there's no one else there so I'll get in trouble." "It is fine," she assured. But when I went out to the middle and started dancing a booming voice over a microphone called out a bunch of gibberish "Blah blah blah that kid blah blah blah." I ran back to my mom and exclaimed "I told you!"

    A few years later, there was the first clue that I could've actually been liked. I was making dolls out of these sticky sort of plants that I found and a couple of popular older girls spotted me doing this and said something like "OMG these are like so cute and creative. I so want one." And I was like "Seriously? (Someone actually likes one of my ideas?)" So then this led to a short time of basking in the admiration of this 5th grade clique by making all of them dolls. But this ended when I ran out of the sticky plants. I quickly pitched my idea of stick dolls to them when this happened but they explained "It's not the same, it's just not cool anymore." To which I thought "Psssh, who needs 'em? They don't know what cool is."

    Anyway, I'm not sure where I'm going with this anymore. I guess I was saying that it was some combination of auditory processing glitches and low self confidence that could've been inferfering, rather than environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    In such cases, removal from the situation (like growing up and moving out on one's own) usually lets them develop their true extraverted traits.
    So, in this case, I don't have nearly the problems with auditory processing and confidence that I had when I was seven, but they are still there a little. But even though my home environment wasn't exactly the problem, I do plan on being a lot more "out there" when I move away for college. Perhaps I don't want my parents to know what mistakes I'll inevitably make by trying to actually engage people on a regular basis? I don't know, but I do think I'll be more of myself once I make the move. And I think that person will be better at communication and expression.
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