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  1. #31
    ThatGirl
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    I just find that unacceptable. Personality theories are supposed to bridge the gaps between perspectives. While I believe it has helped me to see who others are, I still find that most people cannot understand where I am coming from. Not so much just on this forum, but irl too.

    So I believe that being open to what other people are suspecting is a good way to see what they are seeing vs how I see myself. This knowledge is useful in bringing attention to the idiosyncrasies I still need to work on in order to become more easily understood.

    What I find frustrating, is when people try to use the biases of typology to promote like or dislike of your character. This doesn't help anything.

    It is like how people say I suck at language and am therefore hard to understand. In this circumstance I suck at self representation. So that too, causes a communication barrier, that ultimately I am responsible for. I will consider it a success when I am disciplined enough to accurately represent myself in a way that is universally understandable to others.

    Given the general direction of this thread, I would say the improvements I made to become more understandable have led people to believe I am more of an S type. Which sort of makes sense, since I have tried to combat the 'open for interpretation' parts of my personality.

    It also indicates I have gone from one extreme to another, and therefore am still getting it wrong.

    It is not that I need to know myself, I know that. It is that I need others to be more aware of myself, if I am to walk the same paths as them without unnecessary conflict or jeopardizing my own integrity.

  2. #32
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I just find that unacceptable. Personality theories are supposed to bridge the gaps between perspectives.
    Well, I disagree already. Personality theories are easy ways to divide people. You can divide 'em along any dimensions: height, education, accomplishments, dominance, humor, intelligence, whatever. A type theory is just supposed to categorize. It's not comprehensive. There's a lot more variation in perspectives than MBTI can account for, and I'm guessing you can see that. If I told you someone's INTP, you'd have some information about them, but once you met them, you'd see so so so so so so much more. You especially.

    While I believe it has helped me to see who others are, I still find that most people cannot understand where I am coming from. Not so much just on this forum, but irl too.
    Type has nothing to do with it. It helps very very little on this forum. If you want people to understand you, you need to express yourself clearly and thinking accurately. Type is irrelevant.

    It is like how people say I suck at language and am therefore hard to understand. In this circumstance I suck at self representation. So that too, causes a communication barrier, that ultimately I am responsible for. I will consider it a success when I am disciplined enough to accurately represent myself in a way that is universally understandable to others.
    You suck in finding the word that other people use to express difficult concepts that you want to express. The vocabulary is out there, you're just not familiar with it yet because you probably hang around morons (no offense to Vent). If you express yourself with more familiar words, people will "get you."

    Given the general direction of this thread, I would say the improvements I made to become more understandable have led people to believe I am more of an S type. Which sort of makes sense, since I have tried to combat the 'open for interpretation' parts of my personality.

    It also indicates I have gone from one extreme to another, and therefore am still getting it wrong.

    It is not that I need to know myself, I know that. It is that I need others to be more aware of myself, if I am to walk the same paths as them without unnecessary conflict or jeopardizing my own integrity.
    People have aspired to harmonize with others and be understood long before typology came around. There are better ways, and investing all your time (or really, any time) into further trying to discern your type is pointless. There are better, more efficient ways to tackle conflict and integrity than this. It's not like once they understand your type everything'll get better.

  3. #33
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    How come it's important to you that other people get you, but other people's theories make no difference to yours?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #34
    ThatGirl
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    I have had a life time to test my own theories regarding myself for accuracy. When other people present theory they are automatically at a disadvantage. Jumping in somewhere in the middle of what I have already thought about or figured out. Then I need to go back and explain how, yes, I could see where you are saying that but..... Then it comes off to the other as arguing to make my point.

    I try to shy away from theory regarding my type for this reason alone. If I were to go through the chronological understanding I have come to at this point, you would surely agree that I am in fact an INTJ. Though because you did not believe that to begin with, the fault would be put on me for changing your perspective to fit my "ideal". Which is counter productive to simply representing myself accurately.

    There are a great number of reasons for my idiosyncrasy. Which as ThatsWhatHeSaid, are not type related. Or maybe they are, only if you can dissect type down to its most basic probabilities. How would someone of this type have dealt in these situations. Which I have first hand knowledge of more so than others.

    I suppose in a way, bringing myself back to my base state, clear enough to be understood off hand, is the ultimate goal.

  5. #35
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I have had a life time to test my own theories regarding myself for accuracy. When other people present theory they are automatically at a disadvantage. Jumping in somewhere in the middle of what I have already thought about or figured out. Then I need to go back and explain how, yes, I could see where you are saying that but..... Then it comes off to the other as arguing to make my point.
    This presumably goes to interaction style, and seems, perhaps superficially, to suggest In Charge.

    I also have a pet theory about particularly ESTP and ENTP. They tend to know more than they say. Part of it is being a perceiver before a thinker; part of it is being lumbered with Ti and having no need to actually come clean about how much they think is true. They measure truth against inner standards and if the quest for truth comes out into the outside world, it often takes the form of arguing the other side of what they believe or by having hypotheses that they don't reveal but do test by seeing how far wrong they can go. Think House, MD.

    I try to shy away from theory regarding my type for this reason alone. If I were to go through the chronological understanding I have come to at this point, you would surely agree that I am in fact an INTJ.
    Now this goes to judgment type. Either F over T because of the idea another person can be swayed by presentation or more likely, but for the same reason, Ti over Fe. And I say that because you're not INTJ. At the very least, you're not INTJ because other people's theories don't bug you. You don't *feel* compelled to put misunderstanding right. You'd like people to get you, but how they're supposed to get you is not by them being corrected by you saying what you know to be true. This is a relatively flimsy case for saying not INTJ, but that is neither here nor there. (If you know why it's neither here nor there, then maybe you can be INTJ. We'll see.)

    Though because you did not believe that to begin with, the fault would be put on me for changing your perspective to fit my "ideal". Which is counter productive to simply representing myself accurately.
    Really, really, really not Chart The Course interaction style.

    There are a great number of reasons for my idiosyncrasy. Which as ThatsWhatHeSaid, are not type related. Or maybe they are, only if you can dissect type down to its most basic probabilities. How would someone of this type have dealt in these situations. Which I have first hand knowledge of more so than others.
    And the judgment inherent in that isn't introverted?

    Now see, with the above question I'm either looking for a conclusion to be made public or I'm looking for an argument. Which one does it seem like? Both are instances of looking for proof. Extroverted proof is you say what's true and I accept it (or I believe it's wrong and I reject it). Introverted proof is we debate.

    And now again see, I'm saying out loud what's true. I'm charting a course. I'm saying this is they way things are and you'll benefit from knowing them. It's not guaranteed that all INTJs do this, but it is sort of built into the function structure. Is that you? Not by what you've said.

    I suppose in a way, bringing myself back to my base state, clear enough to be understood off hand, is the ultimate goal.
    Presumably this goes to purpose, and has a bearing on interaction style too. You seek clarity of communication. Clear communication of what exactly? One thinks perhaps it may be clear communication of orders. Seeking efficiency of leadership, and not necessarily through being personable. ESTP or ENTJ. And it's not ENTJ. ENTJ would be just as unlikely as ESTP to accept being told what they are, and both would be tempted to play with the speaker to find out what he knows, but their rejection of the other person's authority will take different forms. For ESTP specifically I suspect extroverted thinking claims will simply be ignored. ENTJ would interact with them a little more.

    Could also be ESTJ. But where's the wild hypothesizing? You're stubborn enough for ESTJ (or even ESFJ with a mean streak), but.... something.

    Or something.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  6. #36
    ThatGirl
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    Interesting. Thanks.

  7. #37
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    ^ LOL.


    Okay, so what would convince you? Seriously, what does another person have to do to not just get your attention but change your mind?

    (I ask not as a potential fanboy, lovely as you are, but as a Course Charter. If you know the answer, it'll go some substantial distance to showing what your preferences are on taking in information and making judgments. And if you actually say the answer--which seems like it might be unlikely, perhaps even especially unlikely if you are In Charge, inferior feeling and all that--other people will have more to work with than just what you've decided is enough for them to know.)
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  8. #38
    ThatGirl
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    Not necessarily. I spoke my answer in the OP. Make it make sense, and make it worth more than what I already know.

  9. #39
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I am stubborn as fuck, and will only incorporate other peoples ideas if they make perfect sense to me, and are better than the idea I already held.
    But you didn't say what incorporation means, nor what constitutes sense, nor what makes an idea better or worse than yours. Every type can claim of themselves the same things you claim, they just mean totally different things by the same words.

    So...

    To incorporate an idea is to add it into your overall belief structure or merely deploy it in today's plan?
    Perfect sense means is consistent with your beliefs or provides a key you're currently looking for?
    Better in terms of quality or current usability?

    Which is to ask, in short, Ti or Te?



    Let's just skip ahead a few steps, shall we? Your answer to all questions is "both". But your preferences exist, inadequately phrases questions notwithstanding. Why do you need currently require other people to tell you answers?

    Now a question to which "both" is a legitimate answer: "are you feeding a perception function or do you want a judgment function prompted?" Other people are putatively involved so one or the other of those is an e function. (That is true anyway.) So, either Ne or Fe. But it's Ne that doesn't dominate (demonstrated by how well it doesn't work) and/or it's Fe that isn't a primary judgment function (demonstrated by how it seems to serve demands for truth rather than the other way around). So ESTP or ESTJ. Except Te is not apparent (making much of this "proof" irrelevant anyway.) So ESTP. Again. I'm going to be annoyed when I'm wrong later.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #40
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Well anyway, my arguments are getting crappier and more tendentious than usual and really all I'm semi-confident of seeing here is In Charge interaction style. And a lot of feelery, semi-moral complaint in the OP. From my inexperienced F point of view it seems maudlin and catastrophising, but who can know, and either way I can't be sure if it's tertiary or inferior.

    There are definite constraints on what information can be used for type checking. Is this because of In Charge interaction or because the fact checking was couched in the wrong language? I may never know.

    And why does everyone else have to agree on a type? Sounds like a management ploy.


    Etc. Speculation fail.



    Why is information being managed? Or is it?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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