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At least I'm sure I'm N and P... or, well, can one ever be sure?

raminda

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So, ever since I first got into MBTI through someone linking me to one of these internet tests, I’ve “known” I’m an INTP. After a while I got more into the theory and learned about Jung’s cognitive functions (Fi, Te, Si and so on, I don’t know if there’s a better word for them). Me having Ti-Ne-Si-Fe made sense to me, and I didn’t give it that much thought. Then my interest in MBTI faded for a while.

Now, however, my interest is back, and I have some doubts. I’m wondering if I’m instead of INTP is an ENTP or an INFP (or, by extension, an ENFP, I guess). I have a few different reasons for my doubt. The ENTP thing is partly due to the Enneagram and partly due to me thinking about my functions more in depth.

I’ve never really gotten into the Enneagram because it feels too arbitrary to me. However, I decided to give it a chance and really think it through properly. Now, the thing is that while the description of the behaviour of 5 fit me, the motivations do not, and my Enneagram savvy friend tells me the Enneagram is mainly about motivations. Looking at those, the best fitting type is 7. But the instant reaction from most people when I mention INTP and 7 I the same sentence seems to be “You sure you’re not ENTP instead?”. And well, no, I’m not sure.

Also, as I mentioned, it’s the thing about the functions. What first got me thinking was the fact that I use Fe so much, more than I (consciously) use Si even. I chalked it down to me having grown up around loads of Fs and also to the fact that while I may use Fe more than Si, I still find it more draining. However, I’m not so sure about that last thing, and the more I thought about it, the more I started thinking about Ne and Ti too. Maybe I do use Ne more than Ti? How do I tell?

I’ve always figured my dad’s and ENTP, however, and if our discussions are any indication, I’m more INTP (than him, at least). How it usually goes is that he’s talking about something, and then I sit and think about it a while before I say something, and then, at the second I shut up, he starts talking again. That would sound like me introverting to use Ti before I answer, while he jumps right to new Ne possibilities immediately, right?

Anyways, on to my INFP worries. Now, this comes totally from an outside source. There was someone who told me that I present more like an INFP than an INTP, and well… I can’t really go outside and look at myself, so I’m asking for what you think, and maybe some foolproof way to determine, if there is one. I don’t think I have Fi, it sounds very alien to me, but maybe it’s because I’ve mixed it up with Ti.

Thanks in advance! (Ohai there Fe...)
 

Savage Idealist

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Well Ne doms are often known as the "introverted extraverts" in that Ne is centered around ideas more so then people, thus giving the impression that they appear introverted. It's also possible that you lesser funtions are of near equal strenth, while your main funtion are the same. This can also make it confusing to a certain degree as to what type you may be.

As for the INFP thing, if your confused on wether you use Fi or Ti more, then it would also be important to consider that the INFP uses Te rather than Fe.

Also this test may reveal some insightful results: http://www.keys2cognition.com/explore.htm

EDIT: YAY post 400!
 

raminda

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Thanks for the reply!

Yeah, I've done that test a few times (because I never remember to save my results) and I tend to get "Excellent use" for both Ne and Ti, Ne often a bit higher, and then Good use for Fi and Si and Average use for Fe, Te and Se and then Unused for Ni. And the result INTP, but check out ENTP and INFP too >.< I identify more with Ti than with Ne, though. Ne is fun and all, but Ti is where it's at.

And the Fi question is more about how I come off, because either I have correct understanding of the functions and am an INTP, or I have an incorrect understanding of them, and then it won't really help how much I think about it, because the conclusion can't be right if the facts are wrong.
 

Savage Idealist

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Well seing as how your Ti and Ne seem to be of near equal strength, with Si being slightly stronger then Fe, I'd say INTP for you. Although with an equal Ne+TI as well as good use of the Fi could the peronality factors of ENTP and INFP can certainly overlap a bit as well.

Distinguishing between Ti and Fi can be a little tricky in some respects, but when it comes stright down to it one is more value focused while the other is more logic focused.

These are from http://www.bestfittype.com/cognitiveprocesses.html:

Introverted Thinking: Analyzing; categorizing; evaluating according to principles and whether something fits the framework or model; figuring out the principles on which something works; checking for inconsistencies; clarifying definitions to get more precision. Analyzing your options using principles like comfort or “Red is a power color.”

Introverted Feeling: Valuing; considering importance and worth; reviewing for incongruity; evaluating something based on the truths on which it is based; clarifying values to achieve accord; deciding if something is of significance and worth standing up for. Evaluating whether you like an outfit or not: “This outfit suits me and feels right.”

Whichever you seem to use more should indicate the precisness of you type.

Hope that helps. :)
 

raminda

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Reading that I think Ti fits better; the Fi one are just words to me, I can read them but not relate them to myself.

Thanks for the help, I think I'll keep calling myself INTP.
 

raminda

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With my necromancy powers I revive this thread, because its purpose has been renewed.

So, recently, in thi thread, where I asked for help with determining my Enneatype, some doubts about me being INTP were voiced. I turned out a 7w8, and it was pointed out that ENTP is more likely in combination with that Enneatype. I do however think this is a better place to discuss my MBTI type than that thread.

I figure the best way of doing this is describing my interactions with and comparing myself to my father, an ENTP. I love discussing things with him, because he’s full of interesting ideas and insights, and also is more knowledgeable than me about many things, due to the advantage of being some 38 years older. Ever since I was little, these discussions have followed a certain pattern, even though my active part in them has grown with time. Here’s a simplified formula of how they tend to develop:

I: [Ask a specific question about some subject I’ve been thinking about recently]
F: [Starts talking immediately, throwing out whatever comes to his mind with a lot of “maybes”, jumping back and forth, retracting some things and adding others and just generally Ne-ing]
I: [Just absorb, until I notice an inconsistency, then cut him short] But if _________, aren’t ___________ and __________ both impossible?
F: Oh, yes, but then maybe [goes of again]. What do you think?
I: [Think the whole issue through for a while, weighing in all the new input I’ve gotten and comparing it to my former views on the matter, and then present my conclusion.]
F: [Immediately goes off again, with associations to what I said.]
I: [Cut him short again] But that doesn’t go with what you said about _________ last weak [Repeat what he said from memory]
F: Oh… Well, that does indeed sound like something I would say. Pretty smart, don’t you think? But you’re right, it doesn’t go with __________, unless [Offs again].

And so on.

He has often stated that he thinks best by talking to someone. My role in the conversations, besides adding new material to my own worldview, is noticing contradictions, either in what he’s currently saying, it’s relation to reality or to what he said at some other time. He also often amazes me with his ability to seemingly effortlessly adjust himself to people he’s talking to in a way that makes them feel at ease and fits with their own behaviour and way of talking. On the other hand, he is hopeless when it comes to remembering things he has said before, and I sometimes amuse myself with discussing the same issue with him a few different times and notice what stays the same and what changes in his opinions. He never notices me doing this.

In comparison, before I start speculating about something, I always process eventual new information and (regardless if I’ve recently gotten new input or not) think my current views on the matter through. I’d say that I introvert to think (if possible, preferably alone and in silence) and I always hesitate to get into a discussion unless I know where I stand on the issue beforehand. Also, I often feel awkward when I have to interact with people who are not much like me. And I obviously remember facts, former discussions and so on better than him.

I’d see this as me having higher Ti and Si, and lower Ne and Fe than he does. Is this a sound analysis? If so, does that mean I’m INTP, or could I just be a less strongly expressed ENTP? Is this method of determining type completely off?
 

raminda

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Yeah, I tried to put down a comparision with a very expressed INTP too, for balance, but I couldn't find as clear a pattern in my interactions with him and it just turned into "Well, sometimes it's like this but sometimes it isn't" and then the comparision was basically "I think he's smarter than me but he thinks the opposite and he fails more at social interaction but that's probably beacuse he used to be bullied" and all in all it just sounded like "Look guize I'm ttly liek this person".

I read the two links you posted, and, well... The INTP one rings more true to me, but that could just be that I'm so used to thinking of myself as an INTP that I've internalised the descriptions into my view of myself. I can see myself in the ENTP too, nothing they said clashed with who I think I am, even though they probably wouldn't be the first things I'd mention if I was asked the same questions.
 

Kasper

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I really struggled with INTP/ENTP myself although in the end I simply could not question being a Ne-dom. One thing that helped me was watching myself in social situations, even though I'm not "out there" and chatty I would leave many/most social events with more energy than I started with, being around people sure does energise me but due to my personal image of being an "introvert" I couldn't see my MBTI preference until I paid close attention to it.
 

raminda

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Meh, I don't think I've understood the concept of "energy" in this context. I can get enthused by an interesting conversation, for example, and sometimes when I get home after spending a night out I am still too wound up to go to bed immediately, but does this mean that the outer world energizes me? I mean, the time you see somebody's energy is when they spend it, isn't it? Right now I'm charging my iPod, but the point of having an iPod is not the charging of the batteries, it's doing the things that drains the batteries. And the only thing I can think of that leaves me with more energy than I had before is sleeping. Some things drain less energy than others, though.
 

Kasper

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The opposite side for me is if I stay alone in my own space too long it starts to feel like I'm sinking in quicksand, I become numb and depressive. For introverts being alone is where they re-energise, I need something outside of myself for that.

Another way to look at this is seeing which of these threads, if any, you relate to when stressed: ENP, or ITP.
 

raminda

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But is sinking in quicksand, numb and depressive the opposite to energised? Maybe I only have a problem with the terminology. I can get irritable, snappish and annoyed by being with people, while the worst thing that can happen when I'm by myself is that I get a little bored, does this mean I'm an introvert?

But another thing, I hear people talking about the difference between social and functional extro/a-/introversion, claiming that you can be a social introvert but still an extravert in MBTI terms. Do you agree with this, and if so, how does one determine what they are?
 

Kasper

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The issue is mixing the non-MBTI meaning of the words extrovert and introvert with the MBTI definitions, they are not the same.

For example while I am most certainly a MBTI extrovert I am generally quiet, prefer to be in the background, even anti-social at times, for someone without MBTI understanding they would call me an introvert because of those behavioural/social aspects of me.

As for the "quicksand, numb and depressive" I was trying to use words other than "drained" because you said you weren't sure of the concept of energy. The opposite of those words and how I experience being energised is engaged, excitable and buzzed. But energised and drained are more accurate, I was just saying how it feels for me.
 

raminda

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For example while I am most certainly a MBTI extrovert I am generally quiet, prefer to be in the background, even anti-social at times, for someone without MBTI understanding they would call me an introvert because of those behavioural/social aspects of me.

Okay, this sounds like the opposite of me. I can be very talkative, enjoy the spotlight (when I have something to say) and social at times, but I think I'm an introvert in MBTI terms.

As for the "quicksand, numb and depressive" I was trying to use words other than "drained" because you said you weren't sure of the concept of energy. The opposite of those words and how I experience being energised is engaged, excitable and buzzed. But energised and drained are more accurate, I was just saying how it feels for me

Ah, okay. I understand now, even though I still wouldn't sponataniously use the word "energy" for this myself.

I'm reading the two links about ENPs and ITPs under stress right now and I find them really helpful. I definitely see myself more in the ITP one, it describes things I've experienced but have not been able to put into words myself. The ENP one is also very insightful, even though I don't think it applies to myself as much. Thank you for posting these.
 

King sns

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Hi! Your avatar and indecision and friendliness all scream INFP to me. :) But after further reading, it sounds like you know yourself pretty well. I agree family influence does a great deal on someone's behaviors. I'm not sure if this is helpful or not, but I think a lot of ENTP's seem to feel very introverted at times, since the functions are not exactly "present moment" they want time to themselves and their projects and thoughts. It's not so much people that energizes them, but still sometimes things outside of them. (Whatever project they are into at the moment.)

I'm not really sure how this differs from INTP's (I haven't studied the two in depth, mostly just my observations.) Seems to me that ENTP's do have better use of Fe, (makes sense.) Generally more people pleasers/ more talkative and chatty in general, despite their need to get away.
 

raminda

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Heh, it's a secret so don't tell anyone, but my friendliness is actually a conscious effort and not something that comes naturally to me. I feel like I'm overdoing it, actually, but I'm just trying to ease myself into the community here without stepping on anybody's toes. I don't really have an excuse for the avatar, though, except for it being painted for me by my boyfriend because I use stoats as a metaphor for my personality, and not just a picture of a cute animal I found on the net.

I know I mentioned in my first post here that I use Fe more than Si, but now that I've thought about it more I think I was confusing many Si things as Ti-things. In my Enneatype thread skylights mentioned having a "fact database" as an example of Si, and I definitely have one, I've just always linked it to my Ti. I think both functions play equal parts in creating this "library", actually, and I can't even imagine Ti without Si. I really don't understand how one can have Ti-Ni.

In a similar vein, it's impossible for me to imagine my Ti without my Ne (even though I can see how Se could take it's place, as opposed to Si vs. Ni), because without input, there's nothing for Ti to do. This is the reason I find it really hard to see whether I have higher Ti or Ne. Looking more into tertiary and inferior functions I now see myself as more Si-Fe than Fe-Si, though, which would imply INTP.
 

Kasper

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Hey, you're a chick! Welcome to the always popular NTP club of chicks that people think are guys. Doesn't tend to happen with NFPs /antidotal

Watch INTP v ENTP chicks on the forum and see who you more often identify with, it can be telling.
 

prplchknz

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I really struggled with INTP/ENTP myself although in the end I simply could not question being a Ne-dom. One thing that helped me was watching myself in social situations, even though I'm not "out there" and chatty I would leave many/most social events with more energy than I started with, being around people sure does energise me but due to my personal image of being an "introvert" I couldn't see my MBTI preference until I paid close attention to it.

Yes this does help, I tend to have strong Ne, so for awhile I thought I might ENFP, but social situations drain me. Even though I seem outgoing and loud at parties when I get home/go to bed I just want to collapse and I don't want to see those people for a couple of days at least. Hell when I start feeling overwhelmed in social situations if I leave even for an hour to re-energize I find that helps a lot. If I don't get a break from people I become very cranky. So I agree paying attention to this sort of thing is a good idea. My mom sort of knew that about me, before I even did, she'd plan my day when I was child with lots of down time for me. Of course she's also an introvert so I think she saw introversion in me, because she grew up with an ESFJ mom who always wanted her to be doing something and interacting with people, and she told me that, that didn't work out well for her socially.
 

Fluffywolf

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I know how to find out your true type.

Let's meet up and scientifically prove our similarities and differences through a batch of personal and intimate tests.

I promise it will be fun and rewarding.
 
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