User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 24

  1. #11
    Senior Member nemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    NeTi
    Enneagram
    <3
    Socionics
    wtf
    Posts
    445

    Default

    What specifically about the ENTP profiles are so accurate with you?

    And what about Te? Sometimes it's hard to tell Ti/Te apart.
    You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. - Jack London

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Hey Anna.

    I resonate alot with some of the things you say. I'm not like many MBTI profiles too. I think they're stupid. They sound like someone with a personality disorder.

    If you are accurately described as E-N-T-J, then that's exactly who you are. It's just the MBTI theory and descriptions that need to be adjusted to empirical data.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    Ok, typically these are the kinds of questions I ask people in person when I'm helping them type themselves (these can be slightly oversimplified):

    E/I:
    -After a long and stressful day at work/school do you... Call your friends to hang out (Extrovert) or Hang out by yourself to "recharge". (Introvert)
    - Prefer to put your thoughts out on the table (Extrovert) or Contemplate them internally before sharing them (Introvert).
    - As a child did your parents had to almost force you to go outside and play with friends. (Introvert).
    - Introvert to an Extrovert: "Excuse me for talking while you were interrupting."
    So what you're saying is that introverts have a sense of decorum while all extroverts are loudmouths who just say whatever's on their minds and interrupt everyone before speaking?

    I think that these E/I differences you are talking about are really just differences in Maturity/ Immaturity.


    T/F:
    - Think logical solutions are the best answer (T) or Think solutions that take everyone's feelings into account are the best answer (F).
    - Think it is more important to be right than liked (T) or Wont hesitate to take something back that you perceived offended someone for the sake of harmony (F).
    Not really. T-s often do not like logical solutions. They are interested in systems and structure. Most imbalanced T's can seem self-serving. Most imbalanced F's can also seem self-serving. It's like comparing a conservative Republican with a militant Liberal- there's an creepy similarity.

    I think despite T/F- the primary difference is initial reaction. When T's are attacked for their personality traits- they find it amusing, whereas F's are often very hurt. When T's are attacked for competence or condescended towards, they become hurt/angry whereas F's just try harder to please. At least this is what I've noticed in my observations of other people and it's an accurate measure to determine who is/isn't T/F even if they're 49-51/ balanced.

    J/P:
    - I find it easy to start projects, the hard part is finishing (P) or I find it hard to start projects, but once I get started I breeze right through it (J).
    - Always seem to be waiting for others that never seem to be on time (J), Easily distracted and get lost between the door and the car (P).
    Well most ENTJs/ESTJs know that something's not going to go as planned- in which case they can easy take over and control the situation- which is what they like to do. Therefore, I think being open and flexible to change is indeed the signs of EN/ES traits if I do say so myself! Most introverts I've noticed start to panic when something's not going as planned. (well except for INFJs/INTPs/ISTPs and INFPs- only because the latter doesn't care if things as planned in the first place! LOL)

  4. #14
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna999 View Post
    The ENTP profiles are almost spookily accurate in places. The problem with this is I don't see how I can possibly be a P? Keirsley says I'm ENTJ, but my Te is just not quite strong enough for ENTJ. I think very strong N can overwhealm everything else and make it hard to discern. Is it possible to be ENTJ Ti Ne?
    What are the reasons you don't think you could be a P? (I don't think the ones you gave in your original post are convincing enough myself, as they could arise from the NT desire for conceptual structure. )

    Do you identify more overall with the ENTP profile than the ENTJ one then? Maybe you're well-balanced on J vs. P? Tell us more about your Jness and your, uh... P traits.

    I agree with Maverick. When there's a case of reality contradicting theory, it's best to go with reality.

  5. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    4

    Default

    I can really identify with this stuff (ENTP) (I'm a 3w4 by the enneagram)

    Such a keen awareness of the perceptions of their audience, is without a doubt, a strength of communication. The larger the audience, the more comfortable the ENTP is likely to be as there will be more external perceptions for them to feed off, and incidentally, it will be easier for them to appeal to the general vibe of the environment. ‘The spirit of the times’ is most relevant to the notion of Extroverted Intuition without a doubt. As such a notion depicts the quintessence of the external environment, which in itself is abstract almost the point of ineffability, one that could be accessed only through intuitions. ENPs tend to derive their insights in a rapid and disjointed fashion, and whilst being in the process of this making connections between the ideas their imaginations have just conjured. They stand in sharp contrast to the INJs in this regard whose imagination works smoothly and gradually from the inside out. The INJ who tends to have difficulty forming connections between seemingly disparate ideas because of his need to focus on one hunch at a time stands in sharp contrast with the ENTP who processes all hunches that there could be momentarily.
    Introverted Thinking is the rational function and the kernel of the ENTP’s inner being. As an introverted judging faculty, it is primarily responsible for establishing a clear-cut standard for the ENTP to assess the world with. However, as an Extroverted type, strangely enough the ENTP tends to rely on external cues for self-assessment. On Intuition rather than Thinking. As an Extroverted perceiver, the ENTP is more concerned with the general ambience of the environment rather than private perceptions. Thus, in order to be successful the ENTP needs to arrive at a situation where he picks up the hunch that his vision has been realized.
    Here's why I thought I was a J.
    -If I make a big change in my life, it's for strategic reasons, it's not out of sheer love of novelty like I'd imagine a P would be like. I do love novelty when it comes to ideas, though. I like playing with strange or 'dangerous' ideas.
    - If something doesn't go according to plan, although I'm good at comming up with creative solutions, I only consider other options after something has gone wrong, not before. I tend to plan my life rather than 'keep my options open'. I wouldn't describe myself as a spontaneous person. All seems very J-ish.
    - I always have trouble starting things, but once I get started I'll focus my entire energy on that thing - finishing, once I've overcome starting inertia, is a breeze.
    -I feel more comfortable after I've made plans/decisions, not before. I'm not as comfortable with things 'hanging in the air' as I'd expect a P to be.

    Now I think about it though it would make sense that an extrovert (forms self-image via externals) that also has a well developed Ni (= strong sense of purpose) would naturally feel uncomfortable with their future 'hanging in the air.' Which could possibly explain all of the above without me being J. It's all quite confusing.

    My functions strongest to weakest I'd say are: Ne,Ni,Ti,Fe,Te,Se,Fi,Se best fit = ENTP?
    Last edited by Anna999; 02-28-2008 at 10:43 AM.

  6. #16
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    8w7 sp/sx
    Socionics
    SLE Ti
    Posts
    534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    wait... are you sure this time? (I didn't get the memo!)
    I came to this forum thinking that I was either an ESTJ or an ENTJ. I then considered the possibility of my being an ENTP. I briefly considered the possibility of my being an INTJ. Since reading Keirsey, I've recognised that ESTJ is almost impossible, and that ENTJ makes far more sense than ENTP, and more sense than INTJ.

    Just as a general note, a lot of type still involves why you do something, not just that you do it.
    Yes it does.

  7. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    30

    Default

    I really hate it when things don't go according to plan. I'm not an introvert. I don't think that's an exclusively introverted thing. It's primarily a judging thing. I'm always trying to make the best plan possible. What really freaks me out, though, is if things go wrong in such a way that it requires me to react quickly, without thinking much about it. I'm alright with forming a new plan or following a contingency plan, but if things just go wrong in such a way that ten thousand things are going on at once and it requires some superb multi-tasking on my part, the stress-meter goes through the roof. This is because I suck at multi-tasking. I might have the best plan in the world, and it might take into account that somebody is going to need to do some multi-tasking at some point. But please get somebody else to do it! Bring me in when it's time to do something in a thorough manner and make sure it's done right. That's what I'll do for you. Now, I'm fine with adopting a quick strategy. But I see the multi-tasking, quick action orientation as an Se thing. This being said, it still makes me angry when things don't go according to plan, even if it doesn't demand multi-tasking. The reason for this is because there is one way I want things to be, the correct way thing should be, the way I see it, and if they don't go that way, it fills me with rage that things are not perfect. That's a problem, I know, but when everything isn't just how I think it should be I can easily blow my top. My wife, on the other hand, who is an introvert and a judger, an ISFJ, to be exact, handles things not going according to plan and instances of multitasking better than I do. This may be because she is a woman, since women tend to use more parts of their brains at once than men do. I'm a very single-minded person. She's also not as strong a J as I am, but she's definately a J. So, this stereotype of the extraverted thinker as being just fine with things not going according to plan, I'd like to disabuse you of.

  8. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    30

    Default

    I've actually been thinking about this and I've had a very interesting idea. It seems that there is a relation between a type and the tertiary function that determines how similar said type is to the other temperaments into which it does not fit. Here are the examples.

    The ENTJ has tertiary Se. Aside from the rational temperament, it should have some qualities of the artisian temperament. This could contribute to impatience and wanting results. I'm not sure about other ENTJs, but I'm also pretty hyper and energetic, and while not particularly athletic, I enjoy working out and eating a healthy diet. I'm probably developing my Se since I'm 28 year old, in my late twenties. I'm interested to know if other ENTJs have a similar interest in developing their Se, even if in different forms. I've always been interested in working out, at least, since I was arounnd 18 year old, but I never got into it seriously into a couple of years ago. Though I did work out off and on when I was younger.

    The ENTP has tertiary Fe. Aside from the rational temperament, it should have some qualities of the idealist temperament. I wonder if this is why ENTPs are sometimes the most well-liked of the rationals, because the Fe's focus on responding "appropriately" to others.

    The INTP has tertiary Si. Aside from the rational temperament, it should have some qualities of the guardian temperament. The INTP is arguably the most detailed of the rationals, going into extensive detailed analysese on subject matter, such as the structure of a carbon molecule, or how a time passes due to relativity in a speeding train, what have you. This is not to say they're not independent thinkers, indeed they are. But they are still very detail-oriented when it comes to their elaborate theories, even if they have no practical application.

    The INTJ has tertiary Fi. Aside from the rational termperament, it should have some qualities of the idealist termperament. They are very principled people, deriving a sense of values and morality as a focus on their logical orientation. Many INTJs also seem to have a penchant for understanding where others are coming from, even if it doesn't translate into much interpersonal warmth in their behavior. I actually realte to the values part, since Fi is my inferior function, but I have a real problem being understanding about where others are coming from.

    What do you guys think about this theory? I don't think I've conflated what is contained in the primary and auxiliary functions with what is contained in the tertiary function. For example, I know Te likes results. But Se likes results without thinking about them to get there, just immediate action. Te likes a detailed plan of action that leads to a decided result. This is another reason why I argue that Te is not associated with not minding a change in plan. I think that's more of an Se thing. Though Te does love results, so that could be a point of confusion.

    I'd also like to say a word about control, here. Te likes control to make everything a certain way, according to it's specifications, to instill order in their environment, to stave off chaos. Se likes control (especially when coupled with Ti) to acheive immediate results and get what they want. They could care less about order. In this way, Se is the opposite of Te, because Te strives for order and Se relishes in chaos, jumping into things without thinkiing first.

    I've also heard about the inner and outer faces of each type. For example, the ENTJ has an outer face of ST (TeSe) and an inner face of NF (NiFi). Se being included in the outer face of the ENTJ could explain the influence of the tertiary function on the type. Looking at ENTP, outer face NF (NeFe) and inner face ST (TiSi) being likeable through Fe. INTP inner face ST(TiSi) and outer face (NeFe) being detailed in their analysese. INTJ inner face NF (NiFi) and outer face ST(TeSe) bringing value focus and sometimes personal understanding. Of course, for the introverted types, the inner face is more influential, being the one to draw on the tertiary function. So, primary face is composed of primary and tertiary functions. These seem to correspond. Any thought on this?

  9. #19
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna999 View Post
    I test as ENTJ and individually I seem to be E -N- T- J but for some reason none of the ENTJ type profiles resonate much at all. I'm wondering could being a very strong N be throwing everything else off?

    E/I. At first I thought I was I since I need a lot of time to myself and I can be a bit oblivious to my surroundings. But the giveaway that I'm an E is that I care about how others perceive me - I really can't see an I being image conscious at all. I find that I feel more alive around others as well, so long as I'm in the mood.

    N/S. I'm N no doubt about that, my strongest function.

    T/F. This is the one I'm least certain of.

    T traits: - When I'm debating something, I'll very much argue from a systematic/analytical point of view and leave out the human element. I find arguing with Feelers can be like talking in circles for me because they always have to bring value judgements into everything, they seemingly can't seperate values from objective reality. Meanwhile, they think I'm 'amoral'.

    -I'm much more interested in learning about how things are and how things work rather than how I think things should be and what is 'good' and 'evil'.

    -whenever anyone tries to talk to me about their relationship problems my eyes glaze over

    F-traits: - Although I'm quite thick skinned when I'm happy when I'm under a lot of stress I can become very sensitive and start taking everything personally. Aren't T's usually 'water off a ducks back'?

    -Most T's I know seem to have that very reductionist 'this is nothing but that' mindset. I enjoy looking for underlying similarities where none exist on the surface. I'd describe my though patterns as holistic, yet impersonal and systematic. Theoretical physics and evolutionary development interest me.

    -I gesticulate a lot and I've got an expressive face - an F trait?

    I'm leaning towards T, I just don't think I'm enough of an idealist or interested in interpersonal relationships to be an F. Then again, maybe I could be an F that tends to be self centered, lol.

    J/P. Quite sure I'm J. When I'm working on a project, I have to be able to know more or less what I'm going to write from start to finish before I begin writing. I've noticed P's just tend to jump in and make a start. I do procrastinate a lot, but I feel uncomfortable with that but much better when I've completed the goal I set out to do. My surroundings tend to look messy and P-like, but I actually much prefer things orderly, I'm just too N to get down to the practicality of cleaning/organizing often enough for that to happen.

    The ENTJ profiles though just seem entirely too active, forceful and utilitarian to describe me however, even though I do tend to take charge of things. ENTJ's seem almost like sensors to me the way they are described. Do I sound like ENTJ, just more intuitive than most?
    Hello. it's always nice to meet people who are new to this.
    From what you've written it sounds like you have a lot to work with, and If I were you I'd start out considering several types and eliminating by using different models (interaction styles, temperment, cognitive processes,- if you bring in another model you'll be talking apples and oranges. If you type yourself with, say, socionics or Ennegram also, then just make sure to call the combination 'your theory' and make sure not to put "IS" before statements about it)

    -Everyone CARES how others percieve them. That's a fact. I don't know why this one keeps coming up for some of the types, it's really a false dilemma. There are so many different ways of CARING about what other people think. this is a very honest mistake, especially since I see that youtube is busy perpetuating that myth.
    -N: What I'd like to know is- what do you think makes someone an 'N'? If intuition is in fact your strongest function, then you might not be an ENTJ. The four intuition types are: ENTP, ENFP, INFJ, INTJ (this is one of those things that you don't get from reading the dichotomies)
    Thinking/feeling: Sounds like a thinking preference. Sounds like. there's only 16 types, so you can still check them all out (with your statement so far only definately excludes (assuming you are being honest) E_FJ types. )
    About debate. What I notice is that every type can DISCUSS. But people who prefer feeling avoid/struggle with DEBATE. MY THEORY is that Dom/aux feeling types either: refuse to debate, try to debate and fail, get angry and debate poorly, or get angry and debate well but yell and/or include nasty reproaches and 'stingers' in what they say.

    What you added about 'underlying similarities' could either be a preference for INTROVERTED THINKING (__TP) or a general theorist temperment. You should definately consider all of the theorist (NT) types, and go to 4temperaments.com -- Understanding Temperament Theory to read about the temperments.

    As for the stress part, you can read about the interaction styles stress responses: fight, flight, freeze, and flurry. Remember, the corresponding response is what you do when stressed but when still in control, you're 'flying off the handle' response will usually be the opposite response.

    J/P: there's nothing P-like about being messy. this dichotomy is really ovverrated sometimes. In fact, it's totally possible to find your type using the other models (ignoring J/P), get your type, and then go, "oh look, I happen to be a __"

    good luck
    Last edited by proteanmix; 03-13-2008 at 07:00 AM. Reason: fixed link

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
    I've actually been thinking about this and I've had a very interesting idea. It seems that there is a relation between a type and the tertiary function that determines how similar said type is to the other temperaments into which it does not fit. Here are the examples.

    The ENTJ has tertiary Se. Aside from the rational temperament, it should have some qualities of the artisian temperament. This could contribute to impatience and wanting results. I'm not sure about other ENTJs, but I'm also pretty hyper and energetic, and while not particularly athletic, I enjoy working out and eating a healthy diet. I'm probably developing my Se since I'm 28 year old, in my late twenties. I'm interested to know if other ENTJs have a similar interest in developing their Se, even if in different forms. I've always been interested in working out, at least, since I was arounnd 18 year old, but I never got into it seriously into a couple of years ago. Though I did work out off and on when I was younger.

    The ENTP has tertiary Fe. Aside from the rational temperament, it should have some qualities of the idealist temperament. I wonder if this is why ENTPs are sometimes the most well-liked of the rationals, because the Fe's focus on responding "appropriately" to others.

    The INTP has tertiary Si. Aside from the rational temperament, it should have some qualities of the guardian temperament. The INTP is arguably the most detailed of the rationals, going into extensive detailed analysese on subject matter, such as the structure of a carbon molecule, or how a time passes due to relativity in a speeding train, what have you. This is not to say they're not independent thinkers, indeed they are. But they are still very detail-oriented when it comes to their elaborate theories, even if they have no practical application.

    The INTJ has tertiary Fi. Aside from the rational termperament, it should have some qualities of the idealist termperament. They are very principled people, deriving a sense of values and morality as a focus on their logical orientation. Many INTJs also seem to have a penchant for understanding where others are coming from, even if it doesn't translate into much interpersonal warmth in their behavior. I actually realte to the values part, since Fi is my inferior function, but I have a real problem being understanding about where others are coming from.

    What do you guys think about this theory? I don't think I've conflated what is contained in the primary and auxiliary functions with what is contained in the tertiary function. For example, I know Te likes results. But Se likes results without thinking about them to get there, just immediate action. Te likes a detailed plan of action that leads to a decided result. This is another reason why I argue that Te is not associated with not minding a change in plan. I think that's more of an Se thing. Though Te does love results, so that could be a point of confusion.

    I'd also like to say a word about control, here. Te likes control to make everything a certain way, according to it's specifications, to instill order in their environment, to stave off chaos. Se likes control (especially when coupled with Ti) to acheive immediate results and get what they want. They could care less about order. In this way, Se is the opposite of Te, because Te strives for order and Se relishes in chaos, jumping into things without thinkiing first.

    I've also heard about the inner and outer faces of each type. For example, the ENTJ has an outer face of ST (TeSe) and an inner face of NF (NiFi). Se being included in the outer face of the ENTJ could explain the influence of the tertiary function on the type. Looking at ENTP, outer face NF (NeFe) and inner face ST (TiSi) being likeable through Fe. INTP inner face ST(TiSi) and outer face (NeFe) being detailed in their analysese. INTJ inner face NF (NiFi) and outer face ST(TeSe) bringing value focus and sometimes personal understanding. Of course, for the introverted types, the inner face is more influential, being the one to draw on the tertiary function. So, primary face is composed of primary and tertiary functions. These seem to correspond. Any thought on this?
    I think your theory is very sound. You remind me so much of myself it's mind boggling. Your thinking is very similar, and I have often pondered about the same things.

    I identify with alot of Se traits. I love speed and taking risks. I'm very fond of sensate pleasures and usually enjoy overindulging in them (within my known and reasonable limits). I can relate to many sides of the Artisan temperament. My best friend is an ESTP. We're very similar. But I plan and analyze NT style, then act SP style. He acts SP style, then analyzes it NT style in private.

    The Te/Se interaction is interesting. This is why ENTJ's are the Field Marshals. They like making the best possible plan, then executing it with boldness and taking risks. An ENTJ likes to be there with his men, on the "field". An INTJ is probably perfectly happy leading from a remote control center, not getting mixed up in the battle and risking his/her life.

    As to the inner NiFi face, it makes alot of sense. I think NTJ's like deep, authentic contact, and are the ones who despise the most appearances of the Rationals. It's also what makes them bolder. NTP's are more likely to put up with social rituals and even play the game.

    If you put the pieces of the puzzle together, it provides an excellent in depth view of personality. One that is more "phenomenological" than merely descriptive. It touches at what lies beneath appearances.

Similar Threads

  1. Trying to find my type since days! ESTJ or ENTJ?
    By LoyalKnight in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-17-2017, 01:25 PM
  2. [ENTP] I really don't like the type profiles of my own type
    By UnitOfPopulation in forum Myers-Briggs Type Profiles
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 01-04-2017, 05:15 PM
  3. What is my most likely MBTI type?
    By SwimmerGal97 in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-25-2015, 05:36 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-13-2013, 03:22 PM
  5. I'm still not sure of my type but I think I'm an ENTJ.
    By Nicki in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 10-27-2012, 02:08 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO