Differences between ISFP and ISFJ?

[KarenParker]

I am trying to figure out if someone is ISFP or ISFJ and I'm having trouble telling the difference. What are some things that come to mind for you?

 

[Forever_Jung]

It's pretty easy to tell them apart:

ISFPs are artsy, less social and more interested in physical action and the present moment.

ISFJs are very traditional, service oriented, past, traditional focused.

ISFP vs. ISFJ is like painter vs. nurse

 

[MonkeyGrass]

It's pretty easy to tell them apart:

ISFPs are artsy, less social and more interested in physical action and the present moment.

ISFJs are very traditional, service oriented, past, traditional focused.

ISFP vs. ISFJ is like painter vs. nurse

Yes, basically this. I've found ISFPs to be much more "fun" and experience driven than ISFJs, who are more duty driven.

 

[Thalassa]

What they're saying there are, pardon me, bullshit stereotypes.

Andy freakin' Warhol was an ISFJ.

My ex is a film collector and he's ESFJ.

ISFJs can be artistic. Not all ISFPs are "fun." Some ISFJs have a highly developed sense of aesthetics, and some ISFPs are boring blobs who sit on the couch watching tv all day. The difference is Si/Fe and Fi/Se.

ISFJs tend to like structure of some kind, and they are much more detailed people. This doesn't necessarily make them "traditional" though it often can if they were raised in a traditional environment. It just means they are more likely to be strongly affected by past patterns in their lives, whatever those patterns were. The Fe tends to make them "warmer" yet more role-centered about relationships.

Fi/Se means that ISFPs tend to have their own quiet value system, they tend to be much less structured and more laid-back. The Se can make them impulsive at times, and even if they aren't artistic, rebellious, or edgy (they certainly can be) they at least tend to just kind of be like "whatever" instead of paying attention to detail and social roles.

 

[sleuthiness]

Andy freakin' Warhol was an ISFJ.

You really think so?

 

[Thalassa]

Absolutely. He was a controlling, structured person who formed systems in order to produce his art. Having an Fe social group was of utmost importance to him (The Factory) and he put a lot of importance on being fabulous, which also seems Fe to me, although in truth he as a person was rather withdrawn, plain, and shy.

His art screams Si pattern and repetition, he said repeatedly that his art had no deeper meaning and seemed annoyed by implications that it had to have meaning (I total rule out NF and NT for this reason) and he was a devout Catholic who never missed mass despite the "sinful" lifestyle he was known for. The Campbell's soup he really did eat every day for lunch since he was a little boy (Si again), and apparently he died a virgin: ISFJ sexual guilt and adeherence to social roles.

 

[sleuthiness]

You sound very well-read! If he's isfj, what's his enneatype?

 

[Thalassa]

You sound very well-read! If he's isfj, what's his enneatype?

I don't know. 1w2? 3w2? I'm not as knowledgable with enneagram.

Unhealthy sexual variant of 3w2 'The Star'

 

[MonkeyGrass]

I think there are complexities within every individual within each type, and exceptions to every rule, for sure. Just wanted to point that out...I generally try not to be a bullshit stereotypist.

 

[sleuthiness]

I don't know. 1w2? 3w2? I'm not as knowledgable with enneagram.

Unhealthy sexual variant of 3w2 'The Star'

"Average 3/2 is the prototypical sales personality. The threeish desire to be admired is stronger than the twoish desire to please others, so it is more important to them that they look good than that they make others feel good, although they will do both if they can. Unlike the more withdrawn 3/4, they want to reach the largest possible audience. Threeish, mainstream attractiveness is flavored by twoish seductiveness, rather than fourish uniqueness.

"3/2s usually want to be well-dressed, according to the top fashion of whatever social group they belong to. Their clothing is well-chosen and reflects the mainstream, not the fringes of fashion. They seldom let themselves become overweight. Makeup and jewelery are always well within the norms of their largest audience. Note, however, that some audiences like excess, and threes who are addressing such groups will meet their expectations. 3/2s possess a calm, cheerful social manner, always trying to show the best side. They want you to feel that they are emotionally together even if they aren't."

http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/types/3/32.html

What do you think?

 

[Thalassa]

Well 3w2 is "The Charmer" and he was quite a charmer where as the 3w4 is "The Professional."

I also think a two wing is highly probable with him being an ISFJ, particularly since the 2 weakness is pride (boy did he have pride), and he often complained that people didn't appreciate what he did for them even though in truth he used a lot of his "subjects" and didn't pay them...he did, however, house and feed these people, etc. he actually did nurture them in a way even if he didn't pay them in cash directly...which seems like ISFJ-ish 2-ish behavior.

I don't think he was a straight up 2, though. The link about the unhealthy sexual 3w2 makes a lot of sense to me, but I could be wrong.

 

[sleuthiness]

isfjs spend their time collecting images of inanimate objects with smiley faces.

Probably more of an isfj e23 tendancy than e67 or 65.

 

[Thalassa]

isfjs spend their time collecting images of inanimate objects with smiley faces.

Probably more of an isfj e23 tendancy than e67 or 65.

The more I think about it the more inclined I'm to go with either 3w2 or 2w3.

Here's 2w3

2w3 - Seeking Love and Image

LifeExplore

This wing brings Twos an extra measure of sociability and the capacity to make things happen. When healthy, can be charming, good-natured and heartfelt. Really get things done, serve effectively on projects that involve the well-being of others. Thrive on group process and are generally good communicators. Enjoy keeping several threads or projects going at once. Entranced Twos with a 3 wing can be quite emotionally competitive and controlling. 3 wing brings a double dose of vanity. Strong tendency to live in one's images. May grow brazenly deluded, preferring their glamorous, self-important scenarios to reality. Tendencies to deceit and emotional calculation. Highly manipulative. This wing is also more extroverted; dramatization of feeling in the form of hysterical snit-fits is far more possible.

 

[Spamtar]

My mom is an ISFJ and my girlfriend is an ISFP; both are nurses.

ISFJs are more organized and more anal about being organized. Disorder is a pet peeve of theirs, especially if you mess with the order of their property/jurisdiction.

The are the most loyal of the types in my mind.

It seems like ISFJs feelings motivate them to develop facially logical arguments....whereas most ISFPs I have noticed are not overly concerned with logic.

ISFP can be disorganized and don't let that fact in itself bother them (although the ultimate results of their disorganization can eventually stress them out and certain values which call for greater organization i.e. perhaps work, church or some other formal area of their life they may pidgeon hole the organization efforts). Most ISFPs I observe are pretty laid back and good in emergency situations.

ISFJs aren't too bad in emergency but if they become too overwhelmed they are a train-wreck for at least the short term if there isn't someone to take authority of the situation.

ISFJs like authority in close proximity and ISFPs tend to give authority a wide berth but otherwise acquiesce to it, avoid it, or become passively aggressive towards it.

ISFJs tend to like equity and ISFPs like special privilege and case by case variances.

ISFJs love structure and solid precedent and ISFPs like "their own individual" flexibility

 

[sleuthiness]

"Type 3: confronting approval-seeker. -/+

The 3’s surface compulsion moves against people, while the underlying compulsion moves toward people. This explains why the 3 seems pushy and competitive, while underneath they paradoxically want the approval of others. These conflicting surface and deep compulsions make the average 3 seem deceptive, as they claim to be a bold, aggressive leader, while denying the deeper compulsion that makes them follow the leadership of the society around them. This is analogous to the 2, who is deceptive in the other direction – the average 2 claims to only be helping others, while denying the aggressive motives hidden underneath."

http://www.9types.com/writeup/Theory20.htm

I haven't read much on his life so will take your word for it regarding his hospitable nature, but regarding his being e3, does he move away or towards people? Is he energetic, bold, pushy, competitive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akNgEFwkCsA&feature=related
Above's an interview with Warhol and Steven Speilberg (who I think is an e56 so/sx intj). Do you see the 3ish aggression that manifests in his behavior that's so typical of the type? Is that same going-against apparent in Warhol's?

The descriptions at mindheart could probably afford to be revised.

 

[Thalassa]

"Type 3: confronting approval-seeker. -/+

The 3’s surface compulsion moves against people, while the underlying compulsion moves toward people. This explains why the 3 seems pushy and competitive, while underneath they paradoxically want the approval of others. These conflicting surface and deep compulsions make the average 3 seem deceptive, as they claim to be a bold, aggressive leader, while denying the deeper compulsion that makes them follow the leadership of the society around them. This is analogous to the 2, who is deceptive in the other direction – the average 2 claims to only be helping others, while denying the aggressive motives hidden underneath."

http://www.9types.com/writeup/Theory20.htm

I haven't read much on his life so will take your word for it regarding his hospitable nature, but regarding his being e3, does he move away or towards people? Is he energetic, bold, pushy, competitive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akNgEFwkCsA&feature=related
Above's an interview with Warhol and Steven Speilberg (who I think is an e56 so/sx intj). Do you see the 3ish aggression that manifests in his behavior that's so typical of the type? Is that same going-against apparent in Warhol's?

The descriptions at mindheart could probably afford to be revised.

He seems more passive-aggressive than openly aggressive - but he pretty much attempted to destroy Edie Sedgwick because she began running aroud with Bob Dylan, and mentioned off-handedly once that if she killed herself he'd like to film it. He also would continually ask people questions which made them uncomfortable to get the desired effect he wanted (I believe this is all bad use of Fe).

Perhaps he is not openly aggressive enough to be a 3, he was definitely the puppet master, though.

Oh, he was also a life-long hypochondriac, don't know if that info helps at all.

Random quote: "Making money is art, and working is art and good business is the best art."