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  1. #1
    Junior Member TexasChaos's Avatar
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    Default "Judging" question about decisiveness

    I apologize if this is a stupid question to those of you who are much more knowledgable in these matters...

    I've been reading about how Judging prefers closure and making decisions. But what if it is hard for a person to actually arrive at those decisions? Does that infer that the Judging aspect is not really as strong as one would think?

    I keep thinking I'm a J, but it depends on the situation. If it's a "big" decision (such as "Should I buy House A or House B?"), I can work my way through it after listing all the pros and cons, assigning them points based on importance, and tallying the totals, LOL. But with "little" decisions (such as "What do you want for dinner?") I practically become paralyzed. I think I just don't really care and I'm afraid to make a choice in case other people involved have a real preference. But when I say, "I don't care, you decide," people seem to get mad at me and call me "indecisive".

    Just trying to figure out how indecisiveness factors in with preferring that choices be made and achieving closure... grr... now somebody close this one up for me!!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasChaos View Post
    I apologize if this is a stupid question to those of you who are much more knowledgable in these matters...

    I've been reading about how Judging prefers closure and making decisions. But what if it is hard for a person to actually arrive at those decisions? Does that infer that the Judging aspect is not really as strong as one would think?

    I keep thinking I'm a J, but it depends on the situation. If it's a "big" decision (such as "Should I buy House A or House B?"), I can work my way through it after listing all the pros and cons, assigning them points based on importance, and tallying the totals, LOL. But with "little" decisions (such as "What do you want for dinner?") I practically become paralyzed. I think I just don't really care and I'm afraid to make a choice in case other people involved have a real preference. But when I say, "I don't care, you decide," people seem to get mad at me and call me "indecisive".

    Just trying to figure out how indecisiveness factors in with preferring that choices be made and achieving closure... grr... now somebody close this one up for me!!
    I sure understand ... that one was constantly leveled at me by my X. I tried to explain that I deferred when it really didn't matter one way or the other to me and never understood why it was so annoying to him.

    I'm a "P," of course, and in less trivial matters, I find myself accumulating so much data involved with a decision that I get bogged down in it and become indecisive out of fear of making a mistake. The "Js" I've know make a decision just for the sake of making it (closure) because they can't stand the anxiety of not making one even if that be the "wrong" one. I've actually heard a couple say words to the affect: "If its wrong, I'll fix it later." I would rather not make one than make the wrong one. That's the difference I see.

  3. #3
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    if you're sure that you're INxx, you should compare the definitions of Ni and Ne. if you prefer Ni, you're a J; Ne ---> P

    i could never figure it out with all those "closure" questions either. those questions had me mistype as a P for over a year.

    Terms With Nonobvious Meanings

    check out all 3 intuition articles.

  4. #4
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    Here's something else about "closure" that might be of help. I'm an INFJ (who used to type as INFP with low P), with a not-so-strong J preference. My judging function -- assuming that I'm not mistaken in my self-typing -- is secondary Extraverted Feeling, Fe.

    I find that it manifests in some particular ways for me:

    1. Being helpful to others and granting favors. I derive a great deal of satisfaction from this, especially if I can sense the other party's gratitude in their demeanor. This is not to say that I do not feel exhausted after a point, I do. Here I do seek closure, and this is one of the places where my perfectionism shows -- basically, I help someone to the best of my ability (and I am decisive in doing this), and once their issue is resolved, it's "case closed" for me until the next time, and I take note of the incident. But I can certainly bother myself about it if I think I haven't done my best.

    I also am typically seen as rather lukewarm on the outside. (except when I'm laughing -- I can be expressive in that department) This is, I think, due to Fe's secondary place. Anyway -

    2. Treating people kindly -- not harassing or disturbing them -- and expecting the same from others. This might seem like a no-brainer to most of the people here, but as I'm still in high school and this was something I've had to really struggle with in my initial years (no bullying, thankfully, but a sure lot of teasing!), I thought I'd note it. There are some kind of jokes I can't tolerate, (mostly because I am not good at responding to them in face-to-face social situations) for instance. I am stressed out when I give help but receive hurtful behaivour, or just get into a plain, old fashioned argument or verbal fight. I always get more sad than angry, though, and after expressing my feeling, (I basically chide the other party) I withdraw into myself, in some cases not even registering the outside world (such as looking fixatedly at one spot)

    How does this tie into closure? Well, when such situations (not just talking about jokes and teasing here) are the case, I generally blame myself for being the victim and don't really hold a grudge against the person involved (I generally get along with quite a few people.). However, that still means that there's a "breach" between me and the person that has to be healed. And that breach itself is what needs closing. It makes me feel like crap if the relationship between myself and the person isn't swiftly mended. So in this arena, closure is again something I seek very much, and decisiveness is involved too, given that I generally figure out what I must do to repair the situation and do it.

    That's all for Fe. What about other external J traits I'm not good at?

    1) Scheduling. I keep a tentative, flexible schedule in my mind but find it needless to reflect it in the external world in a more concrete, established fashion.
    2) Routine work/study and completing tasks before their time. To be sure, I'm a bit of an underachiever at school, mostly because I've never really studied hard, nor have I been motivated to do so. Hell, I'm lazy. I think that this particular tendency is more representative of Te and Si, but I could be wrong.
    3) Leadership. I do not lead the pack ninety nine percent of the time, of course perhaps this should be chalked down to my life situation. (after all, I am kind of young yet). I am also rarely outspoken unless I have a reason to do so -- I do not actively confront thoughts or group decisions if I don't see any issue with them -- and almost never loud. I'm a mix between individual and follower, much more of the former. I suppose this might change in the future, given that my self-esteem isn't really very high at this time, and it probably does play a role.
    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasChaos
    But with "little" decisions (such as "What do you want for dinner?") I practically become paralyzed. I think I just don't really care and I'm afraid to make a choice in case other people involved have a real preference.
    I'm the same way.

    Hmm, quite the post. I think I went a bit afield, nevertheless I think it's still relevant to your question! Hope it's helpful.
    Not really.

  5. #5
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    I'm going to have to say this...

    I am a J (fairly certain) that frequently tests as a P.... because of the way those closure questions are worded.

    I have lots of difficulties making up my mind about anything. Takes me forever when I need to come up with a decision for myself. Lots of research... then asking other people for their opinions... I get irritated when people tell me to hurry up. For trivial things, I just defer it to somebody else. Or if there's nobody else around, I close my eye and randomly choose one. I'm serious lol! All that makes me sound like a P, but I'm not one.

    Try this question... how do you respond when somebody ask you for advice, you give it to them and they ignore it?

    First thing that comes to mind for a typical J is feeling irritated by the said person. A P usually just shrugs it off.

  6. #6
    Senior Member nemo's Avatar
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    I don't think I would call being ambivalent about arbitrary decisions as "indecisive". Since they're arbitrary it doesn't seem like there's much to be decisive about.

    I would limit myself to focusing how you're like in important decisions, how comfortable are you when your plans regarding those important decisions change, etc.

    I'm actually sort of the opposite of what you described. If it's something arbitrary and it doesn't seem like anyone cares, I'll step in just to get things moving (I HATE sitting around doing nothing). But for important decisions, I like to take a long time to make up my mind, but in the end I usually just flip a coin anyway.
    You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. - Jack London

  7. #7
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasChaos View Post
    I apologize if this is a stupid question to those of you who are much more knowledgable in these matters...

    I've been reading about how Judging prefers closure and making decisions. But what if it is hard for a person to actually arrive at those decisions? Does that infer that the Judging aspect is not really as strong as one would think?

    I keep thinking I'm a J, but it depends on the situation. If it's a "big" decision (such as "Should I buy House A or House B?"), I can work my way through it after listing all the pros and cons, assigning them points based on importance, and tallying the totals, LOL. But with "little" decisions (such as "What do you want for dinner?") I practically become paralyzed. I think I just don't really care and I'm afraid to make a choice in case other people involved have a real preference. But when I say, "I don't care, you decide," people seem to get mad at me and call me "indecisive".

    Just trying to figure out how indecisiveness factors in with preferring that choices be made and achieving closure... grr... now somebody close this one up for me!!
    The suggestion to see if you prefer Ne or Ni is good.

    J drives a person to want to make plans ahead of time. They feel uncomfortable waiting until the last minute.

    Didn't you say you're married to an ISTP?
    P types like to keep their options open as long as possible, they prefer to cross that bridge when they get to it.

    Do you and your husband butt heads on stuff like this, or are you usually in agreement?

    I'm a strong J. If I was going on a trip this summer, I would be making reservations at the places where I'm staying 3 months ahead of time.

    A P might feel comfortable getting in the car and just going. They love surprises and they don't care that they don't know where their sleeping tonight. Furthermore, they hate it when a J tries to get them to close off their options.

    It's all to do with preferences and comfort levels. I feel uncomfortable waiting until the last minute. I want to know ahead of time.

  8. #8
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    I'm a "P," of course, and in less trivial matters, I find myself accumulating so much data involved with a decision that I get bogged down in it and become indecisive out of fear of making a mistake. The "Js" I've know make a decision just for the sake of making it (closure) because they can't stand the anxiety of not making one even if that be the "wrong" one. I've actually heard a couple say words to the affect: "If its wrong, I'll fix it later." I would rather not make one than make the wrong one. That's the difference I see.
    That's exactly what I would have said.

    P's want to stay open in case a better decision comes around. They feel anxiety over potentially committing to an answer that will end up being not as good as it could have been or that they will later regret.

    J's want closure just so that something can be done. They feel anxiety if they aren't allowed to take action on something.

    So I think P's agonize more over things like that, and sometimes get into data lock... although perfectionist J's who can't stand to make mistakes will also fall into the trap.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  9. #9
    Dhampyr Economica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasChaos View Post
    I keep thinking I'm a J, but it depends on the situation. If it's a "big" decision (such as "Should I buy House A or House B?"), I can work my way through it after listing all the pros and cons, assigning them points based on importance, and tallying the totals, LOL. But with "little" decisions (such as "What do you want for dinner?") I practically become paralyzed.
    FYI, I'm a strong J with the same M.O. I can wander around a store wondering what to make for dinner for so long that my behavior starts to strike security as suspicious.

    Just trying to figure out how indecisiveness factors in with preferring that choices be made and achieving closure... grr... now somebody close this one up for me!!
    ... And you seriously doubt you're a J?

  10. #10
    Junior Member TexasChaos's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks for all the great responses!!

    I do tend to get bogged down and indecisive out of fear that I'll make a mistake, as several of you mentioned (can you say major perfectionist?!)

    I took a quick glance at the Ni vs. Ne (thanks for the link and idea, dissonance) but could see bits of myself in both descriptions. I will have to look at it more closely when I get more time.

    Nadir, I relate to your comments about decisiveness and figuring out what to do to repair a situation. I think that's why I got confused about my T/F tendencies, because I can be very analytical this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Try this question... how do you respond when somebody ask you for advice, you give it to them and they ignore it?

    First thing that comes to mind for a typical J is feeling irritated by the said person. A P usually just shrugs it off.
    Good one, nightning! Based on that, I am J all the way. I think, "Why the heck do you ask my advice if you aren't going to take it?!"

    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    I would limit myself to focusing how you're like in important decisions, how comfortable are you when your plans regarding those important decisions change, etc.
    Ooh, I do NOT like it when my plans change! Especially if they are BIG plans for important things.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    J drives a person to want to make plans ahead of time. They feel uncomfortable waiting until the last minute.
    That would be me!

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Didn't you say you're married to an ISTP?
    P types like to keep their options open as long as possible, they prefer to cross that bridge when they get to it.

    Do you and your husband butt heads on stuff like this, or are you usually in agreement?
    Wow, I can't believe you remembered that I mentioned my ISTP S.O. in another thread. I'm impressed! And YES, we butt heads a lot on this type of thing. S.O. says I'm "inflexible", LOL. I think I used to be a little more spontaneous, but when you have kids, you can't exactly just take a little unplanned trip and hope that a hotel has a vacancy!
    Guess that's another point for the J side...

    Looks like I'm a perfectionist J who appears indecisive because of a strong "need" to make the "perfect" decision the first time, every time!

    Ugh, makes me sound difficult.

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