"Judging" question about decisiveness

[SolitaryWalker]

Not always. A Judger might act in the interest of expediency when a Perceiver gets stuck and stalls for more time and data. But Judgers are Judgers because they have the capacity for making sound decisions quickly, period.

Clearly so for practical decisions, yet Fi and Ti are unparalleled for making sound theoretical decisions. The difference between Introverted Judgment and Extroverted Judgment is that the latter applies decisions to the external world, yet the former to the inner. Introverted Judgment actually has the edge in this respect, as its closer in tune with the inner decision making process itself than extroverted judgment. Extroverted Judgment is better at applying decisions to the external world than at concocting measures to make such decisions.

 

[htb]

Clearly so for practical decisions, yet Fi and Ti are unparalleled for making sound theoretical decisions.

I agree with this. Where Fi and Ti still cause personal discord and practical delay, of course, is in the service of an open-ended function or directive -- resulting in a random and endless consecution of perfectly sound judgments, as seen in an intensely extraverting ENTP. When exhibited in leadership positions, this drives my kind crazy.

 

[TexasChaos]

I've never found a satisfactory description of Ni -- it completely confounds me. So this is my incredibly shallow understanding of Ni vs Ne. I will admit to you that Ni is definitely a bit mysterious to me, so take this with a grain of salt:

Ni views every intuition as an apple, and it takes that intuition and squeezes, presses, contorts, and pounds it into oblivion using their psyche. After an incredible display of psychological intensity, all the pulp and whatnot is brushed away and all you're left with is the juice -- and the Ni says, Yes, this is the essence of the apple!

Ne finds and apple and thinks Hm, how interesting! and goes looking for the apple tree. (Only to get lost after they see a cool-looking pinecone or something.) ; )

Ni is transformative; it seeks to dig out the essence of things.

Ne is relational; it seeks to discover connections between many things.

That's my (vague) understanding of it anyway. Someone feel free to correct me.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who's a bit flummoxed by the two!!
But based on that description, I feel sorry for the poor little apple that the Ni got a hold of! I think I would be more like this:

"Oh, hey, an apple! I wonder where it came from? Maybe there's a tree nearby! I wonder if I could find more apples? Maybe I could bake a pie! Should I bake a regular one or one with gooey caramel filling? Caramel is cool... hey, maybe caramel highlights would look good in my hair?"

LOL. I know some of you are going to read that and think I am a total and complete flake, but bear in mind that all that stuff shot through my head in about three seconds... and I would follow through and bake the pie!

 

[Seanan]

The weird thing is that my husband is an ENFJ & he drives me absolutely insane weighing all the freaking options before he'll decide on something, especially a purchase decision. I just think, "let's just decide one way or the other & do it." All the weighing & planning & deciding gets on my last nerve. And I'm an INTP.

I've always thought that one aspect seemed backwards in our relationship.

I know just what you mean and it may be because, at our house, hubby is "J" and he has the same frustration with me being the planner. It has always been an issue between us. When I worked for DoD, I had an Army boss who just drove me nuts with his quick, often wrong, decisions. He told me that was what they taught officers in the Army.... right or wrong, make the decision and be quick about it. I told him I would have washed out of OCS and he said many did because they couldn't make quick decisions. I didn't say so but thought... well, that pretty much explains collateral damage.

 

[JAVO]

Ohhh, bad memories! My dad must be a P because he did things like that to us A LOT. It was horrible. One trip, the only vacancy was this really seedy hotel that used to be a prison....

Ah, I understand then. My strategy involves calling a town or two ahead and making reservations on the road over cell phone. Also, being prepared for a spontaneous campout at the nearest state park helps, especially since camping is one thing we do as a destination itself sometimes.

Sometimes I think I married a Vulcan.

What's wrong with that?

(JAVO = Just Another Vulcan Observer)

 

[cascadeco]

TexasChaos - just so you know, I have been equally confounded by most type descriptions, cognitive function descriptions, closure descriptions, interactive style descriptions, etc etc etc....because I tend to relate to a lot of stuff all at the same time, and will vary depending on the situation at hand. Also maturity plays a large role in all of it too. I often think I use cognitive functions that I 'shouldn't be' using, moreso than some that I am supposed to be using.

But anyway, I can relate to much of what you've written, and your frustration/uncertainty about all of it! (the fact that I can relate doesn't necessarily mean anything!! But, I thought I'd just say it anyway. )

 

["?"]

I keep thinking I'm a J, but it depends on the situation. If it's a "big" decision (such as "Should I buy House A or House B?"), I can work my way through it after listing all the pros and cons, assigning them points based on importance, and tallying the totals, LOL. But with "little" decisions (such as "What do you want for dinner?") I practically become paralyzed. I think I just don't really care and I'm afraid to make a choice in case other people involved have a real preference. But when I say, "I don't care, you decide," people seem to get mad at me and call me "indecisive".

I had pasted a comment on the J/P dichotomy on one of the threads with the same topic. The final code is a moot point since it only conveys your preference for extraverting i.e, ENTJs Te-Ni; INTJs Ni-Te.

With that being said your examples would most likely have a common outcome for the average person and most likely has nothing to do with type because those decisions needing to be made are big decisions and what you are going to eat for a meal is semi meaningless. But as I have argued for quite some period those, who prefer Ni and Te as their dominant functions are no different superficially as those preferring Ti and Se since NTJs want efficiency, closure and to make decisions quickly..... whereas STPs focus on expediency, a need for immediate impact and get right to the heart of a matter. To paraphrase one author illustrating the usage of Se for ESPs, "A primrose down by the calm water is simply a primrose."

That is usually how I think when bombarded with a lot of facts that bear no relevance to making a decision. Essentially they're the same thing. As the article pasted conveyed, the J/P dichotomy only determines whether you prefer structure and things decided as opposed to being tolerant with less structure and keeping things open for more information.

 

[TexasChaos]

Oh my goodness, I just stumbled across these comments from laughing_dolphin on the "why NF's suck" thread...

Tendency to rant for long periods about perceived slights, often ending with some variation of, “Oh my GOD, I was just VENTING! Can’t I just VENT without having to hear advice from you?!?”

Absolute conviction in the ability to accurately read others’ feelings and intentions, even when presented with mountains of evidence to the contrary.

Often cause others to walk on eggshells lest an inadvertent comment hurt our widdoe feewings.

I could go on, but I must go make myself some chamomile tea and sit staring into the distance...pensively.

It had me cracking up because I could see myself in it... especially the venting comment! Oh, heavens, I think I'm an INFJ...

 

[Maverick]

But when I say, "I don't care, you decide," people seem to get mad at me and call me "indecisive".

Tell them to get screwed, saying "I don't care, you decide" is already a decision. You decided that they're going to decide. So there.

 

[hotmale]

I apologize if this is a stupid question to those of you who are much more knowledgable in these matters...

I've been reading about how Judging prefers closure and making decisions. But what if it is hard for a person to actually arrive at those decisions? Does that infer that the Judging aspect is not really as strong as one would think?

I keep thinking I'm a J, but it depends on the situation. If it's a "big" decision (such as "Should I buy House A or House B?"), I can work my way through it after listing all the pros and cons, assigning them points based on importance, and tallying the totals, LOL. But with "little" decisions (such as "What do you want for dinner?") I practically become paralyzed. I think I just don't really care and I'm afraid to make a choice in case other people involved have a real preference. But when I say, "I don't care, you decide," people seem to get mad at me and call me "indecisive".

Just trying to figure out how indecisiveness factors in with preferring that choices be made and achieving closure... grr... now somebody close this one up for me!!

This reminds me of an ENFP female and her ISTP boyfriend. I don't think they can make any decisions together without one being resentful of the other. The only solution of course, is to let one person make decisions based on household-food-dinner and let the other make decisions based on finances, jobs, vacations.

I mean if you're a guy who's tired from working all week, the last thing I want to do is come home and have someone nag me about what we should eat.

Just sayin'

 

[INTJMom]

I've been thinking...

I think J is mostly about being driven to have a decision made, or having a matter settled.
I think how long it takes to arrive at that decision can vary.
The real difference between J and P, I think, is that a J feels more comfortable after the decision has been made, and a P feels more comfortable leaving their options open as long as possible.