What type does this sound like? (very annoying person)

[anii]

The one thing that stuck out to me is, you said this person is trying too hard. If she's exerting obvious effort then she is struggling against something - her natural preference, fatigue, illness, depression, etc. She doesn't sound like a happy person from the way you describe her. I could throw out a type guess (ESXJ) but it sounds to me like she is operating against her natural type. Maybe she'd really rather not be doing what she's doing but is only doing so out of a sense of obligation or guilt or whatever. It just seems that when a person is that annoying, they've got other issues besides personality type at play. I don't know that it's possible to type her at this point.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

The one thing that stuck out to me is, you said this person is trying too hard. If she's exerting obvious effort then she is struggling against something - her natural preference, fatigue, illness, depression, etc. She doesn't sound like a happy person from the way you describe her. I could throw out a type guess (ESXJ) but it sounds to me like she is operating against her natural type.

People can and do learn ideologies that they follow against their usual style, just doing what they do best in the uncharacteristic activity of their choice.

Churches aren't run like corporations, so a corporate person would probably be inclined to combine the ideology of their workplace and the ideology they're carrying with them. Depending on the person's suitability, the results may vary.

 

[alicia91]

The one thing that stuck out to me is, you said this person is trying too hard. If she's exerting obvious effort then she is struggling against something - her natural preference, fatigue, illness, depression, etc. She doesn't sound like a happy person from the way you describe her.

Good points anii. What I mean by trying too hard is, for example, the kids were used to calling the former pastor by his first name, but when she heard this she said that she wanted the kids to see her as an authority figure and felt that because she was closer in age to the teens she would be working with that is was important to her to be addressed as "the Reverned X."

I'm going to have to think about his one - but she seems quite hapy to be like this, I don't have any indication that she's not. But it's food for thought!

 

[alcea rosea]

I started to feel like I needed to ask permission to go to the bathroom.

ESTJ's make me feel like this.

 

[alicia91]

Most people would agree that ESTJs are second only to ENTJs in corporate career potential and for this seemingly well motivated and assertive person to (given the average lower salaries) work for a not for profit seems illogical.

Well, her new husband is an attorney and from a prominent family so she doesn't have to worry about money.

She spent every waking moment inventing new hoops for us to jump through.

Yes!

 

[Jae Rae]

Try this:

About Us

Here's a magazine about altruism with articles written by researchers at UC Berkeley, and interviews with scientists and humanitarians. The present issue is all about
Power.

Jae Rae

 

[Totenkindly]

...Thanks for the advice about dealing with her Jennifer. I'm taking notes!

I hope it is helpful somehow. And yes, the big shoes she has to fill definitely does NOT help...

To answer Jae Rae's comment, well, usually ISTJ's don't like to dictate lots of rules because of the Introversion. They do have strong opinions but to be in charge of all those kids would just be way too much for them to deal with. Usually their presentation is very very understated -- they don't want to manage people at all and shy away from it. I think their preferred style would be to be consulted by others on what THEY should do, rather than dealing with people directly and then making the decisions themselves. They also really tend to dislike interpersonal conflict, but this woman seems to not care if she rubs people the wrong way or makes waves or people complain.

And no, Dave, I think this is a case where you are applying stereotypes to specific people, rather than looking at the specific people and seeing their traits, then deciding on the Best Fit. I don't agree that all religious administrators are Feelers; there are many religious T people, and many of the male ESTJs end up in church administration because of their inclinations and talents. (Some enjoy teaching classes as well.) I've known many, many, many of them.

ESFJs meanwhile end up doing something much more hands on, dealing with the social aspects of the church; i.e., they often organize and act as liaisons for all the various groups in the church and/or a scheduler, or administrative assistant positions, or arranging for incoming speakers/groups, or the "helps ministries" (i.e., getting meals and other support to people, etc.) or just basically anything dealing more directly with people management. I actually think this woman would be better off for teens if she was ESFJ, if you have to pick between that and ESTJ.

 

[Valiant]

Definitely SJ anyway. The way she is SMOTHERING them i'd say ESFJ.. But ESTJ's can be a feckin' pain in the ass, too.

 

[hotmale]

Of course there are annoying people of all types but there is one person in my life that annoys the crap out of me. Subs thread about his sister got me thinking about her and today I had an incident that I'm still thinking about.

*she's the assistant pastor/youth pastor at my church
*seems concrete and not nearly as philosophical as most pastors
*can't tell if she's E or I, but I suspect I
*GREAT public speaker (her best trait)
*very personally conservative, makes the kids address her in a much more formal way than any other pastor or staff at church
*MICROMANAGES everyone, and everything
*is organizing a trip for the youth next month where they can't bring anything for the 3 hour car drive because she has divided them into 'special' groups and they are going to play TWO 'getting-to-know-you' games on the way. No cards, no ipods, no books - these kids already know each other and will think this is lame. The kids are 12-14.
*my teens dislike her because she tells them what to do, treats them like babies and insists they come to youth group even in a snow storm becuase she's keeping attendance.
*even though my church is fairly liberal she gave a kid "Hell Points" (exactly what that is I don't know) because one of them said "oh my G_d" in response to something.
*I served on a committee with her recently where we had to figure out a way to spend a grant that the church had been given over the next 5 years in terms of Christian Education. She actually wanted us to plan out Year 1 we spend it on ...., Year 2 we spend it on ....I thought she was nuts and so did most other people. I suggested that the plans for CE be reviewed each year and plans be made year to year. Everyone else agreed so I got my way!She was very disturbed by this and said something like 'how can we trust whoever is going to be making decisions 3 years from now.'
*isn't overly warm, but strangly enough describes herself as cute and perky.
* in some ways organized, but drops the ball sometimes when she's "too busy"
* selfish - started a meeting today 15 minutes early because most people were already there and the weather was getting bad. Then didn't have time to stay later and explain to me, what I had missed when I came on time.
* is only 24 and it trying WAY too hard to act mature and demand respect

Is this a strong J that is bothering me? How do I know if it's T or F. I tried looking at types to see who'se the worst for micromanaging but didn't find anything. ISFJ? ISTJ?

One big reason that I'm curious about her is that I get really worked up about another person JUST LIKE HER (my son's music teacher) and can barely deal with her either (my son is in an advanced music program so I have a lot of dealings with her). So between the two of them - I think it would help me to learn how to work with them rather than just sit around feeling annoyed after my dealings with them.

It's hard to say exactly what her type is given that you've really only described her ability to micromanage. Could it possibly be that you find her annoying because the two of you have similar personalities and both like to micromanage people?

It seems that there is a clash between 1. what you want to do and the fact that she is holding the reigns and dictating what everyone else, including yourself, has to do.

You might also find her annoying because she is young and authoritative- lacking F because she thinks/acts older than she is.

You might try making small talk with her to see what her interests are. Usually types that like to lead ESTJs/ENTJs/ENTPs/INFJs won't disclose too much information about their personal lives. You can even try getting them drunk and hanging out with them in a social setting- you'll probably discover all sorts of things about them!

 

[alicia91]

It's hard to say exactly what her type is given that you've really only described her ability to micromanage

Hmm. I thought I had described her:

-always wanting to micromanage
-her rigidity
-her way of demanding respect though she hasn't earned it
-selfish when it comes to her own schedule (didn't want to copy the curriculumn on her own time and didn't ask anyone else to do it either so she left the teacher without any materials)
-not warm like you would expect a pastor to be
-good public speaker though not dynamic with people one on one which made me think NOT extraverted but I see most people disagreed with me

Could it possibly be that you find her annoying because the two of you have similar personalities and both like to micromanage people?

Ha ha - now that's kind of funny. I have my list of faults, but a micromanager I'm not.

You can even try getting them drunk and hanging out with them in a social setting- you'll probably discover all sorts of things about them!

When she got married about 6 months ago I was invited to the shower, so when I saw Martini Shakers and bar tools on the registry I bought them for her. It was a llittle message from me - heh heh.

Thanks for the link Jae Rae - I must have missed it earlier. I'm off to take a look.

 

[hotmale]

Hmm. I thought I had described her:

-always wanting to micromanage
-her rigidity
-her way of demanding respect though she hasn't earned it
-selfish when it comes to her own schedule (didn't want to copy the curriculumn on her own time and didn't ask anyone else to do it either so she left the teacher without any materials)
-not warm like you would expect a pastor to be
-good public speaker though not dynamic with people one on one which made me think NOT extraverted but I see most people disagreed with me



Ha ha - now that's kind of funny. I have my list of faults, but a micromanager I'm not.



When she got married about 6 months ago I was invited to the shower, so when I saw Martini Shakers and bar tools on the registry I bought them for her. It was a llittle message from me - heh heh.

Thanks for the link Jae Rae - I must have missed it earlier. I'm off to take a look.

It sort of sounds like she "blows off" her duties, so that she doesn't want to have to do them- yet makes people do what she wants- without LISTENING to them. Does she cause a lot of trouble within your Church?

I have to assess that someone who tends to be irresponsible and doesn't fulfill their duty is more likely an FP type than an TJ/TP.

TJ people tend to be motivated by a sense of DUTY- so they will do something if they gave their word to do it- FPs- on the other hand, will do as they see fit, and if they're in a "bad mood" won't come through with the goods, even if they say they will do it.

Blowing off duties and being flakey is a big deal- and often when there are numerous institutions involved and multiple people on call- usually the FPs are the ones who are the most unreliable, I have found. TJs- even if they are sick and their dog just died, will find the time to do what they were asked to do.

This has other connotations as well- being that FPs tend to be more spontaneous, etc- but usually anyone just blowing off something they were asked to do- screams FP to me, and most of the time I've found- are ENFPs.

ESFPs like social decorum so will do their best anyway, even if they don't "feel" like it.

Same with ISFPs.

INFPs will do something they find tedious because they see the potential in long-term relationships. Occasionally when something of a personal nature comes up- they let you know in advance being that they are introspective and conscious about seeming like flakes.

ENFPs on the other hand- will cancel at the last minute, never do what they were asked to do, and often use the excuse of their personal illness- or their dog/neighbor/family member dying to get out of something RIGHT before the deadline, if AT ALL!

I can't think of the multiple instances in which I left an ENFP in charge of something, and she/he would say he would do it- but then NEVER DO IT!

Anyway, just saying Alicia- if this woman is flakey, chances are, she is an ENFP.

(OK, all ENFPs can comment on this as well- but gotta admit- TJs are very conscientious about giving people enough time esp. if they cancel on something they were expected to do)

 

[alicia91]

Very interesting hotmale - I admit it never occurred to me that she might be anything other than SJ. I'm going to think about it a bit and try to make sense of it.

Blowing off duties and being flakey is a big deal- and often when there are numerous institutions involved and multiple people on call- usually the FPs are the ones who are the most unreliable, I have found. TJs- even if they are sick and their dog just died, will find the time to do what they were asked to

do.


I will say that the specific instances when she hasn't come through it has been a case of 'well, that's not in my job description,' instead of just doing what needed to be done. Photocopying the curriculumn wasn't really her JOB but it would have made life easier for a lot of people but NO, that's not her department so forget it.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I will say that the specific instances when she hasn't come through it has been a case of 'well, that's not in my job description,' instead of just doing what needed to be done. Photocopying the curriculumn wasn't really her JOB but it would have made life easier for a lot of people but NO, that's not her department so forget it.

Being a hard-working person is SJ trademark, and she's surely been hardworking to get into that position at that age. She's using the rules to limit her responsibilities, and she follows the rules, too. Oh, did I mention about making the rules?

She doesn't sound like a P-type flake at all - P might be more like "oh, I forgot", "ah, I'll do it when I have time" and forgetting about it.. or "sorry, I'm busy" or something like that.

We've already established that she ain't particularly fine example of SJ, if she indeed is SJ.

I'm not seeing Hotmale's points establishing strong enough that she might be F, P or FP as opposed to TJ. She does the jobs stated in her job description, doesn't she?

 

[arcticangel02]

ENFPs on the other hand- will cancel at the last minute, never do what they were asked to do, and often use the excuse of their personal illness- or their dog/neighbor/family member dying to get out of something RIGHT before the deadline, if AT ALL!

*cough* Exaggeration much?

An ENFP is not the only type who can possibly be a flake.

Besides, the rigidity and micromanagement she clearly exhibits would be pretty much impossible for an ENFP to maintain... she is also not a very warm person. Again, not ENFP at ALL. You've taken one small aspect of the described personality and extrapolated from there... pretty much everything else about her personality shouts SJ of some description.

So, unless she is indeed an ENFP who is so stressed and pressured to thus behave like an ISTJ, I can't possibly see ENFP...

And then if she is so stressed that she's appearing like her shadow type, well, then she could be ANYTHING! :rolli:

 

[alicia91]

She does the jobs stated in her job description, doesn't she?

Yes she does!

 

[hotmale]

*cough* Exaggeration much?

An ENFP is not the only type who can possibly be a flake.

Besides, the rigidity and micromanagement she clearly exhibits would be pretty much impossible for an ENFP to maintain... she is also not a very warm person. Again, not ENFP at ALL. You've taken one small aspect of the described personality and extrapolated from there... pretty much everything else about her personality shouts SJ of some description.

So, unless she is indeed an ENFP who is so stressed and pressured to thus behave like an ISTJ, I can't possibly see ENFP...

And then if she is so stressed that she's appearing like her shadow type, well, then she could be ANYTHING! :rolli:

Thanks for your comments. I've noticed however that anytime an ENFP takes on a leadership role- they are more interested in having a sense of authority and having people do what they ask- than in acting in the best interests of the organization. They also become strangely inflexible- so even though they should be doing something- or allowing something- suddenly they'll become very dictatorial even if they are WRONG. Maybe that's what you're talking about an ENFP under the rules of an organization suddenly becomes a tyrannical ISTJ?! Who knows, but in my experience the best leaders let people do their work, and are NOT competitive with their staff nor merely sit there and dictate out of some sense of an inflated ego.

Usually EXTJ types- know when someone is good at something- and do not try to crush them, instead integrates them into the goal. Sort of like a football coach---the whole point is to win the game, and how can you win the game when you try to compete with your best quarterback?

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

That's interesting Hotmale, not unbelievable at all. I indeed see people sometimes having a simple view of what kind of traits are needed situationally, then acting it out. If they act out of their comfort zone - and their skill areas - the results might seem, uh, amateurish.

There's only one point in the OP that reminds me of ENFP tho, the fact that she said being cute and perky (but she seemed not). If she's ENFP, she would seem far off from her comfort zone.

Then again, if she were an ENFP, I doubt she would be so rigid out of her own will. Perhaps if she were pressured to do that by some reason. What would that reason be? Organizational requirements?

Her starting a meetng early to meet the demands of others shows some agreeability and concern for others. Refusing to help alicia after the event seems both flakey and stubborn. Can't exactly pinpoint which.

Alicia, what kind of facial expressions she has? Tone of voice? Body language? What kind of "aura" does she have? Does she mirror the feelings and expressions of whom she's talking with?

There must be some F expressions to be found of her, should we decide her to be an F.

 

[alicia91]

Thanks guys - you're making me think here. I'll give it some thought and see what I can remember from other dealings with her.

 

[sciski]

If she's an anything-else in an ESTJ suit, she would be relaxed and being her natural self when away from her job. What was she like at the bridal shower? What's she like when not in the context of the youth group?

 

[SeanMC86]

Definitely Extrovert, she sounds very intrusive and demanding of people. Sensor because she has no imagination. She doesn't really sound like an F to me, I'd think an F would be a lot more considerate of someone being late. In my opinion an F would wait for the latecomers but maybe politely ask them to be prompt next time. For sure a J, there is no question.