INTJ or INFJ?

[sisyphus13]

Everytime I test, I'm either INTJ or INFJ. These are my latest results:

Introverted (I) 89.66% Extroverted (E) 10.34%
Intuitive (N) 66.67% Sensing (S) 33.33%
Thinking (T) 58.82% Feeling (F) 41.18%
Judging (J) 81.25% Perceiving (P) 18.75%

I'm female if that makes a difference for anything. I don't really identify with the scientific/technical part of the INTJ description. I'm currently a college student, and I'm a Classics major (taking Latin and Ancient Greek languages). I really like languages and words. I don't really like science that much, but I had some really lousy science classes in high school, and I've never bothered to give it a second chance. I do like math though.

It seems like I'm always thinking about something, and I tend to think more about the past and the future than the present. Sometimes it's about my own personal past and future. Sometimes it's more about the past and future of the world, humanity, etc.

I'm not a super friendly person. I prefer talking with guys rather than girls. I dislike it when people get too emotional, and I never know what to do with that.

But...sometimes I think that I'm a fairly emotional person too. Though I hardly ever express my emotions, I still feel like I have strong emotions and like sometimes they win out over my reasoning. This is something that really annoys me, and I would much prefer that my reasoning always won.

Any thoughts?

 

[Rex]

What do you focus on in heated/stressed discussions?

 

[sisyphus13]

What do you focus on in heated/stressed discussions?

Usually, whether the other person's argument is making sense. But I get very angry when people try to argue and don't make sense, often to the point that they might want to keep arguing, but I'm so frustrated that their argument doesn't make sense that I can't argue with them anymore.

 

[Nicodemus]

The T does not stand for science.

 

[Athenian200]

I think that you're an INTJ...

You seem very cold, even dismissive by nature, and not very sentimental in an F way. This is often a confusing point for INTJs, because they have a very intense tertiary Fi.

I think that INTJ vs. INFJ is best decided by looking at descriptions of Te/Fi and Fe/Ti, and deciding which pair of functions describes you best.

Here are the red flags that made me think T for you:

I'm not a super friendly person. I prefer talking with guys rather than girls. I dislike it when people get too emotional, and I never know what to do with that.

But...sometimes I think that I'm a fairly emotional person too. Though I hardly ever express my emotions, I still feel like I have strong emotions and like sometimes they win out over my reasoning. This is something that really annoys me, and I would much prefer that my reasoning always won.

 

[CuriousFeeling]

Nicodemus is correct, T doesn't stand for science. I'm an INFJ science nerd. T stands for extroverted thinking... making the final decision based on external evidence, and whether or not a method will be efficient enough to realize your dreams. It takes into account ideas and how you can get others to realize your vision "People will do A... you will do B.... this method is efficient and uses up minimal resources." INTJs do this on the fly. INTJs can be romantics and are polite, but they will tend to be much more restrained/reserved. Under stress, INTJs may feel like the world is out to get them, and if something is in their way, they will curse the world for putting that object there "How stupid to put this object right in my way." They tend to have a harder time reading people on the fly, unlike their INFJ counterparts. When someone asks an INTJ for advice, the INTJ will ask questions to allow someone to come to a conclusion on their own.

INFJs on the other hand, whenever they want people to cooperate with each other, the thing that will bother them is conflict. They like to bond with others at a one-on-one level, and even though they seem initially rational and cold, once you get to know them, they are true romantics to the core. They seek harmonious relationships, and under stress will tend to go towards a thinking mode, either withdraw from the situation and withhold emotional responses, or they might end up being unusually irritable and disagreeable with those that care about them (when normally the INFJ would be warm). INFJs don't like it when people are SUPER emotional, but are sympathetic/empathetic to how the person feels and will offer the best advice they can. INFJs when they see someone feeling distressed, they will feel that it is their responsibility to improve the conditions for the other person. INFJs will feel someone else's needs as if it were their own.

Both types can be blunt, logical, idealistic, methodical, intellectual, romantic, rational, introspective, and organized, it's just a matter of how they plan to realize their vision: coming up with a logical, efficient, and comprehensive plan that uses minimal resources, or connecting with other people to catalyze their dreams.

 

[sisyphus13]

I think that INTJ vs. INFJ is best decided by looking at descriptions of Te/Fi and Fe/Ti, and deciding which pair of functions describes you best.

Having done that now, I definitely think that Fi describes me better, but I'm not certain about the Ti and Te.

Here are the two descriptions that I read and what I think:

"Contingency planning, scheduling, and quantifying utilize the process of extraverted Thinking. Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on. At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively. Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking when we challenge someone’s ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made, often trying to establish order in someone else’s thought process. In written or verbal communication, extraverted Thinking helps us easily follow someone else’s logic, sequence, or organization. It also helps us notice when something is missing, like when someone says he or she is going to talk about four topics and talks about only three. In general, it allows us to compartmentalize many aspects of our lives so we can do what is necessary to accomplish our objectives."

I do a lot of contingency planning and scheduling. I'm very big on efficiency and productivity. Sometimes I won't be productive or efficient, but only I'm allowed to make that choice for myself. No one else is allowed to make be unproductive or inefficient. Also, I tend to be good at empirical thinking.


"Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed."

The part about choosing (obsessing over might be a better fit for me) the right word to expressly precisely what I want is definitely something I do all the time. The part about noticing essential qualities and fine distinctions that make up something and then naming it is also something I do.

On the whole, I think the Ti probably describes me a little better. So what does that mean, Fi and Ti?

Both types can be blunt, logical, idealistic, methodical, intellectual, romantic, rational, introspective, and organized, it's just a matter of how they plan to realize their vision: coming up with a logical, efficient, and comprehensive plan that uses minimal resources, or connecting with other people to catalyze their dreams.

Hmm, I definitely identify more with the logical, efficient, and comprehensive plan with minimal resources.

 

[Sniffles]

INTJ. I've known a few before who were really into Classics and languages.

 

[Athenian200]

Having done that now, I definitely think that Fi describes me better, but I'm not certain about the Ti and Te.

Fi would be more of an INTJ thing. Fi is usually paired with Te, because extraverting one Judgment function forces the other to operate in an introverted fashion.

I do a lot of contingency planning and scheduling. I'm very big on efficiency and productivity. Sometimes I won't be productive or efficient, but only I'm allowed to make that choice for myself. No one else is allowed to make be unproductive or inefficient. Also, I tend to be good at empirical thinking.

The part about choosing (obsessing over might be a better fit for me) the right word to expressly precisely what I want is definitely something I do all the time. The part about noticing essential qualities and fine distinctions that make up something and then naming it is also something I do.

On the whole, I think the Ti probably describes me a little better. So what does that mean, Fi and Ti?

This is quite a complication, and I think it may point to the limits of function theory. I think that many aspects of that Ti description could be applied to other functions as well. There's also the idea that Ni can simulate Ti to some extent, and that some IxTx types might tend to manifest a Ti-like process.

Aside from your apparent Ti preference, all the other data points to INTJ > INFJ. Because of the fact that other INTJs have identified with Ti before, I'm inclined to disregard it as a "glitch" in the Ti description that doesn't properly sort Te users from Ti users.

I've noticed that several types that shouldn't theoretically use Ti much end up identifying with that description, especially types with strong Ne or Ni. On top of that, many STPs have NOT identified with Ti. This suggests to me that Ti was poorly defined in the first place, and that many aspects of the Intuitive function have been improperly mixed into the Ti description for unknown reasons.

Hmm, I definitely identify more with the logical, efficient, and comprehensive plan with minimal resources.

That would be INTJ, if you're curious.

 

[sisyphus13]

Ah well, I can't say I'm disappointed with INTJ.

Out of curiosity, what are INTJ's Enneagram results usually like? What is the likelihood of a 5w4 or 4w5?

 

[Athenian200]

Ah well, I can't say I'm disappointed with INTJ.

Out of curiosity, what are INTJ's Enneagram results usually like? What is the likelihood of a 5w4 or 4w5?

Traditionally, INTx is assumed to be 5w4, while INFx is assumed to be 4w5, but I've seen cases where a person's enneagram type doesn't align with what would be expected from their MBTI type.

 

[Nicodemus]

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17303